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Should Marijuana Be Legal?


MadX

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Because this discussion will not be won by either side with links and studies and medical proof. That much should be obvious if you read the pages of this thread. It's mostly a rah rah thread for fanboys and pot smokers.

At the end of the day, the government is probably going to make it a ticketable offence, and I can live with that. So many are irresponsibly using pot that it's clogging up the justice system, a ticket and a fine is much smaller drain on the system.

I don't understand your reasoning here at all. If there were too many murderers clogging up the justice system, would you be ok with them reduce it to a ticketable offense to stop "clogging up the justice system" with killers?

Or are you conceding that pot smoking really isn't that bad and shouldn't have the penalties associated with it that it does?

Edited by cybercoma
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My only real hesitation with legalization is the draconian way our governments deal with Alcohol and Tobacco. Alcohol sales, especially in Ontario, is an absolute joke. They treat us like children.

If you really do like consuming MJ, do you really want the burdensome restrictions smokers have to deal with placed on you. Especially when the police have all but admitted they don't charge for simple possession.

Also would legalization be treated like tobacco or alcohol. You can smoke (some places anyway) in public but drinking in public is treated like a massive public safety hazard and you're only allowed to drink in licensed areas or at home.

I would oppose having people being allowed to smoke pot in public without facing some sort of penalty. If you think tobacco smoke is unpleasant, I'd ague weed is much worse.

Also, I can't imagine a government would allow people to grow their own weed tax free. And how would they enforce that?

I personally am not opposed to how things are currently done, the dealers take all the risk, and people don't really fear criminal chargest for possession like they do in the States.. Under a legalization system dealing drugs tax-free would be illegal anyway so things wouldn't be all that different.

Edited by Boges
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You also get continual yield from a grape plant so what's your point? I would imagine you pay GST and sales tax on seeds.

Are you looking for a tax that frames the activity as a sin? Maybe we could call it a scumbag tax to really communicate how people feel. In the meantime notice how liquor and tobacco are often endowed with official signs of respectability like Royal Coats of Arms and Seals.

What strikes me as really weird in these days of unsafe communities and threatened families is that the government is even providing for signage along the road directing drivers to vineyards and winery's.

Edited by eyeball
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Making wine is a lot harder to do than grow weed. But I'm sure the government wouldn't be happy with people making their own wine without paying taxes.

You pay tax if you sell it. Growing consumable items for yourself is free and has always been free, as no commercial transaction takes place (besides the purchase of initial supplies/seeds/etc which is properly taxed). People grow their own vegetables in gardens, and it's perfectly legal. You can get continual yield from a tomato plant and eat tomatoes tax-free for the rest of your life, but there's nothing wrong with that. You'll still be taxed on the water, fertilizer, etc, just like you will be for a marijuana plant.

I would oppose having people being allowed to smoke pot in public without facing some sort of penalty. If you think tobacco smoke is unpleasant, I'd ague weed is much worse.

Agreed. Smoking (anything) should be prohibited except in the privacy of one's own home, private establishments especially dedicated to smokers, and public locations specially set aside for smokers. Smoking outside these allowed areas should incur a fine.

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Making your own wine is perfectly legal. As is making your own beer.

Not Moonshine though.

Also the difference between growing basil or tomatoes in your garden is they aren't regulated substances. In fact if you notice when you buy staples at the grocery store, you pay no tax.

Edited by Boges
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If you really do like consuming MJ, do you really want the burdensome restrictions smokers have to deal with placed on you. Especially when the police have all but admitted they don't charge for simple possession. .

How did the myth arise that people are not charged for simple possession? While it's true that the Vancouver police rarely charge for simple possession, the RCMP and some police forces continue to arrest and charge. Since the election of Stephen Harper in 2006, simple possession arrests have increased by 41 percent Canada-wide. Even in British Columbia, with the exception of Vancouver, marijuana arrests have increased since Harper came to power.

And even if the police were to stop arresting for mere possession, the law still permits a judge to sentence a person to six months in jail for possession of even trace quantities. If the law is not enforced, this leads to disrespect for the law. Why have such a law on the books? The Liberals oppose it, the NDP opposes it, the BQ opposes it, the Greens oppose it. Yet Stephen Harper and his Prohibitionist Party are stuck in the 1920's.

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How did the myth arise that people are not charged for simple possession? While it's true that the Vancouver police rarely charge for simple possession, the RCMP and some police forces continue to arrest and charge. Since the election of Stephen Harper in 2006, simple possession arrests have increased by 41 percent Canada-wide. Even in British Columbia, with the exception of Vancouver, marijuana arrests have increased since Harper came to power.

I'm not saying you're wrong but I'm going to have to ask for a cite. If cops do enforce simple possession, then why would they ask to make it a ticketable offense? Clearly police chiefs have problems with criminally charging people for simple possession.

And even if the police were to stop arresting for mere possession, the law still permits a judge to sentence a person to six months in jail for possession of even trace quantities. If the law is not enforced, this leads to disrespect for the law. Why have such a law on the books? The Liberals oppose it, the NDP opposes it, the BQ opposes it, the Greens oppose it. Yet Stephen Harper and his Prohibitionist Party are stuck in the 1920's.

There are plenty of examples were laws aren't enforced the way they are written. The big one is the fact that most highways have a maximum speed limit of 100 km/h when effectively no one fears getting a speeding ticket until they move past 120 km/h.

If all these parties were so pro pot, where was their big pro legalization platform in the 2011 campaign. Why wasn't it an issue that Harper had to answer for then? The Liberals were in power less than 10 years ago and I don't remember legalization come up at all.

Edited by Boges
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Ah this stuff is mostly politics.. police charge people who they feel like charging or have a vested interest to charge.

Regulating the sale of pot to minors makes sense because their parent or gaurdian should have veto on their use of substances which alter 'normal' mental functioning.

Production should be restricted to safe areas and quantities, this means most pot should be grown indoors or where minors do not have access to it.

The government recently changed the law regarding place and method of manufacture, I think this is bad if it is treated like tobacco because commercial tobacco industry increased the risks inherent in the quality of tobacco in regard to health risks over home grown tobacco. I think people should be able to grow pot like they can petunnias or other poisonous plants. Frankly lots of flowers are toxic and arn't banned from production.

It really doesn't make sense.

While I do call for a comprehensive drug strategy, prohibition is not the answer, a well managed drug trade that facilitates for self production and use while transferring sale and trafficking to the government will mitigate the criminal associated issues while providing access to drugs in an as safe as possible way that will facilitate care harm reduction strategies.

Drug trafficking laws should be increased but only after the government provides a means of access to drugs.

I strongly oppose a medical monopoly on access to drugs whether prescription or not. We need to harshly crackdown on abuse of these substances, but we should not block access to leisure or medicine, but we must incorporate drug use and monitor drug use for medical insurance purposes.

Of course it goes against the interests of organized crime, so it will be hard pressed to be realized, none the less that's my two cents.

There is a whole economy based on this that ties into other criminal activities. It only makes sense for the government control and regulate as many aspects of commercial crime as possible. We however need to ask why exactly is access to these things prevented. A nanny state is a horrible thing, you don't regulate what I can eat, how much sun I can get, where I can swim, or other aspects, there is way too much government regulation, that is a problem.

I would love for someone to convince me my libertarian beliefs are wrong and why, but this hasn't happened yet, so all I can say is reduce government control as much as possible and treat drug strategies as a mechanism of the government promoting a healthier lifestyle. Current government strategies serve to have a higher level of risk to life, security of supply, and criminal imbeddednes in society.

Edited by AlienB
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Well Harper's hopping onto the pot wagon in a big way, scooping the profits for his corporate buddies:

The birth of a billion-dollar free market in medical marijuana:

With Health Canada's rule change, small-time pot growers are being replaced by large-scale producers

OTTAWA The Conservative government is launching a $1.3-billion free market in medical marijuana this Tuesday, eventually providing an expected 450,000 Canadians with quality weed.

...

There are currently 37,400 medical marijuana users recognized by the department, but officials project that number will swell more than 10-fold, to as many as 450,000 people, by 2024.

...

Revenues for the burgeoning new industry are expected to hit $1.3 billion a year by 2024, according to federal projections. And operators would be favourably positioned were marijuana ever legalized for recreational use, as it has been in two American states.

Boomers have arthritis! :lol:

.

Edited by jacee
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Step 1 for legalization. Control supply...

Intentional or not, Harper is preforming the first phase of legalization.

Which, like I've been saying, means it'll be a no-no to grow your own plants.

If I could grow my own Single-malt scotch, I wouldn't be going to the LCBO.

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Which, like I've been saying, means it'll be a no-no to grow your own plants.

If I could grow my own Single-malt scotch, I wouldn't be going to the LCBO.

If you outlawed growing grapes and making wine at home you might have a point.

Making scotch is probably more comparable to making hashish...my God...the humanity.

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Who cares.

Jeez Louise...what about just getting the goddamn state off people's backs?

What is it about that particular fundamental bedrock notion of conservatives that Conservatives don't get?

Sure I'm all for that.

But that's not what the likes of Trudeau are advocating for. They seem to want the type of ridiculous regulation we see with Tobacco and Alcohol in this country.

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