Do you really believe anything Bush says?

[BigDookie6]

Americans should never underestimate the constant pressure on Canada which the mere presence of the United States has produced. We're different people from you and we're different people because of you. Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is effected by every twitch and grunt. It should not therefore be expected that this kind of nation, this Canada, should project itself as a mirror image of the United States.- Pierre Trudeau

Hey "Newfie"... Nice signature! I guess Canadians wouldn't feel that way if Canada was an independent country! Everything wrong with Canada, you blame America! America is Canada's "welfare system" and your government sold you out! You guys ever get your tax dollars back when Paul Martin sold you down the river with his steamship company? Oh wait... You guys never even got an explanation! I'm surprised Canada wasn't blaming the Bush Admin for that one! (hehe)

What was "Crusty Creitien" doing when ALL of the worlds major leaders were attending the funeral of Jordan's king? Skiing? Smoking dope?

[Guest eureka]

That is "picking all of you" apart. You make a lot of statements as fact that are incorrect.

1. You thinking he is not a pathological liar does not say that he is not. He is, in my opinion, psychotic and does not know truth. But, notice that is an opinion based on the clear evidence of consistent lying both about Iraq and the American economy.

2. What media thinks of what he says. It is incontestable that the media has been cowed into giving only the White House version of the existing situation. The world media gives a very different picture - and some braver elements of the American media.

You may "talk to people in Iraq every day" but you obviosly do not hear their responses. Iraq is a growing disaster and will need to be occupied for a generation to come just to contain the spread of violence and terror created by Bush. Are you aware that documents now coming to light in Britain show that Britain knew that Iraq had no capacity to attack anyone no WMD: none of the touted reasons for the invasion. One document by a senior official states that it was a grudge match between George and Saddam. Blair is in deep trouble because of the revelations.

4. I have no idea what an accurate figure for the killed or captured Al Quaeda operatives would be and neither does anyone else. Certainly they have not been in Iraq. What is apparent is that terroriists world wide have increased in number and that Al Quaeda, which is not one monolithic organization has probably increased its membership and affiliation around the world.

5. 50% of Americans may think that the economy is getting better. Could that be because Bush is lying to them? The deficit is the highest in American history yet Bush inherited a surplus. The unemployment rate has increased since Bush, when he speaks of the number of jobs created, never talks of the almost equal number lost under his watch.

6. It is still not known where Bush was after the WTC. All that is known is that he was not at the post he should have been at. He, it seems, was keeping his own hide safe. Compare this with other leaders - Churchill for one, who were always to be found exercising leadership during attacks.

7. The Bush tax cuts have not brought an earlier tax freedom date. They have shifted the burden of services to the individual, mostly to the individuals that cannot afford it. They have caused the reduction of expenditures on education in spite of the myth of "No child left behind." They have increased the numbers without health coverage by 5 million. They have led to the necessity for most State governments to raise taxes.

Bush has spent far more than $87 billion in Iraq> That is just the additional procurement. Worse, he has spent thousands of lives - tens of thousands if you include the injured and traumatized. And, that does not include several times that number of Iraqis.

Clinton had the agreement and cooperation of the Community of nations over Serbia. Bush had no wide support for Iraq.

Milosevic may never be convicted except of crimes against his own. Genocide is not on and neither is "war crimes."

Ironically, Saddam may prove to be also an embarassment if he is ever brought to trial. There is no evidence of genocide there either. The mass graves predicted have not been found and the "atrocities" against the Shiites were a stamping out of insurrection.

The deisgnation of Saddam as evil does not give Bush an excuse for an unprovoked attack on a sovereign nation.

It really is scary how little Americans seem to know of what is happening to their country, domestically and internationally.

[Newfie Canadian]

Hit a nerve?

Nice signature!

The quote merely implies that as the neighbour of a superpower, we are affected by that superpower's decisions, whether they mean it or not and whether we like it or not.

Everything wrong with Canada, you blame America!

Look, I have never in my life claimed that Canadian politicians and governements were perfect and blameless in the problems facing Canada. And contrary to what you apparently believe, I don't blame the US for everything wrong with Canada.

You guys ever get your tax dollars back when Paul Martin sold you down the river with his steamship company?

No more than there was a reasonable explanation given about Cheney and Halliburton.

What was "Crusty Creitien" doing when ALL of the worlds major leaders were attending the funeral of Jordan's king?

Don't know, you'll have to ask him.

What the f*ck is "Curling"?

"We'll explain the appeal of curling to you if you explain the appeal of the National Rifle Association to us."-Andy Barrie

[takeanumber]

I must agree on the point that Bush behaved like a pussy on 9-11. He just hid in his airplane, circling.

Kinda reminds me of his national guard service.

I think that Bush has some pretty big character flaws.

[BigDookie6]

I must agree on the point that Bush behaved like a pussy on 9-11.  He just hid in his airplane, circling.

Kinda reminds me of his national guard service.

I think that Bush has some pretty big character flaws.

Sorry Bush didn't react the way you would have liked (What am I saying? I don't need to apologize for anything, or justify Bush's actions on 9/11!) Common sense would tell you; Secret Service, security, and his admin were running the show. I'm sure there is a "contingency" for the President, Vice Pres. and other important, high profiled staff (What to do? Where to go?) when the country has been attacked.

What reminds you of his National Guard Service?

[Guest eureka]

When a country is being attacked, the leader and his immediate circle MUST be at their posts without any delay - not a moment's.

It is their obligation to lead: to give direction to the nation and to make decisions about events and the reaction. No other authority exists in any society. For a period of time after the attack, America was rudderless while the "fearless" leader hid. His own safety should not matter except to keep him as safe as possible while doing his job.

His behaviour and the bragging that covers his cowardice since is beneath contempt.

[I miss Reagan]

And the left continues to deny the irrationality of their hatred of Bush. All I hear is insulting attacks like "he's a pussy", "he's a liar", "he can't talk". Never anything with any substance. What is even funnier is "he's a moron" but wait "he's a great debater" so Kerry has to be careful. What can you expect from the over-emotional and irrational left.

[Black Dog]

We all know the huge media corporations are in a "truth war" right now, and will only report deaths and problems in Iraq, not progress. Did you or anybody else in the world have other ideas or prospects on who to appoint as Iraqi PM?

U.S military experts, CIA estimates and the day-to-day situation on the ground all point to continuing decay of the situationin Iraq.

People like you are scary, and glad you are not in government. Keep ignoring the real situations BD!

Either you stole your points either from another MLweb poster or you're poth working from the same G.O.P talking points. In either case, it's irrelevant, as they are all worthless. In order to be worth a dambn, you'd have to prove that anybody here would call any of Clinton's deeds cited "good".

And the left continues to deny the irrationality of their hatred of Bush. All I hear is insulting attacks like "he's a pussy", "he's a liar", "he can't talk". Never anything with any substance.

Explain this. There's been ample crticism of Bush policies, which alone are grounds enough to dislike the man. factor in his personality...well, it seems Bush hatred is perfectly rational.

It seems defence of Bush is much like the man's policies: faith-based.

[I miss Reagan]

Explain this. There's been ample crticism of Bush policies, which alone are grounds enough to dislike the man. factor in his personality...well, it seems Bush hatred is perfectly rational.

It seems defence of Bush is much like the man's policies: faith-based.

No. We've proven sufficiently that Bush's policies do not differ vastly from how previous presidents have handled comparible situations. Most of your critisisms of Bush, BD, are along the lines of how he talks, how he got there or how smart he is. Most of all you hate his religion, as small part of his presidency. No your hatred is quite irrational.

[Black Dog]

Explain this. There's been ample crticism of Bush policies, which alone are grounds enough to dislike the man. factor in his personality...well, it seems Bush hatred is perfectly rational.

It seems defence of Bush is much like the man's policies: faith-based.

No. We've proven sufficiently that Bush's policies do not differ vastly from how previous presidents have handled comparible situations. Most of your critisisms of Bush, BD, are along the lines of how he talks, how he got there or how smart he is. Most of all you hate his religion, as small part of his presidency. No your hatred is quite irrational.

If you're saying that all presidents throughout U.S. history are corrupt liars, you'd get little argument from me. I'm a firm believer that Democrats and Republicans are essentially the same party, representing a narrow set of interests. And none of this would bother me (Americans get the government they deserve), but for the fact that they all seem compleed to export misery to the rest of the world. Which is why I'd rather have the lesser of the two evils in charge.

[BigDookie6]

Hit a nerve?

Sure, why not?

The quote merely implies that as the neighbour of a superpower, we are affected by that superpower's decisions, whether they mean it or not and whether we like it or not.

Yeah, I figured that... Just wondering why you felt the need to shove it in everyone's face? Something we already know!

No more than there was a reasonable explanation given about Cheney and Halliburton.

Are we playing "DodgeBall"? You worry about Martin, and we'll worry about Halliburton.

Don't know, you'll have to ask him.

He was skiing! Shouldn't you have known this?

"We'll explain the appeal of curling to you if you explain the appeal of the National Rifle Association to us."-Andy Barrie

Guns, guns, and more guns! Curling? NRA? No comparison! You obviously know who the NRA is and what they are about... Still trying to figure out Curling??

Eureka wrote:

1. You thinking he is not a pathological liar does not say that he is not. He is, in my opinion, psychotic and does not know truth. But, notice that is an opinion based on the clear evidence of consistent lying both about Iraq and the American economy.

You really believe that Bush has a compulsive disorder? And now you say that you think he is psychotic? Based on what? Because you insinuate something you read to be true, when in fact there's still no concrete evidence? Gee, you'd think with all the Bush hate floating around the world, that if they had specific evidence that you are charging him with, they would bring him up on charges. Even if he were brought up on charges, still doesn't make him pathological or psychotic! Evaluate yourself, delusional, parranoid Eureka!

2. What media thinks of what he says. It is incontestable that the media has been cowed into giving only the White House version of the existing situation. The world media gives a very different picture - and some braver elements of the American media.

I read the same news as everyone else, and we all interpret it differently. Not once do I recall Bush lied, about Iraq, yet the media, and people like you are still trying to find something to say he did. Find it yet? Because my interpretation was that Wolrd leaders and Intel lied to Bush, he believed it and went from there. The world hates him because he is firm on beliefs and decisions, that differ from theirs. This is not a world election, but a U.S. election!

You may "talk to people in Iraq every day" but you obviosly do not hear their responses. Iraq is a growing disaster and will need to be occupied for a generation to come just to contain the spread of violence and terror created by Bush. Are you aware that documents now coming to light in Britain show that Britain knew that Iraq had no capacity to attack anyone no WMD: none of the touted reasons for the invasion. One document by a senior official states that it was a grudge match between George and Saddam. Blair is in deep trouble because of the revelations.

Yes I do know their responses. Iraqi's are greatful for taking down the regime. They do not like our occupation, but know we are not targeting Iraqi's. I also know that military rotations have been set for the next 7 years for the Mid East. Were you so naive to believe that this was going to be a piece of cake? Or knew, but needed a reason to complain no matter what. Whether you like what we did or not, it needed to be done. The UN had ample opprotunities to fix this but failed over and over, and have lost credibility with the "Oil for food" scandal. You can't change my mind Eureka! When are you going to figure out that Iraq was a haven for terrorists and that Sadaam was a WMD?

4. I have no idea what an accurate figure for the killed or captured Al Quaeda operatives would be and neither does anyone else. Certainly they have not been in Iraq. What is apparent is that terroriists world wide have increased in number and that Al Quaeda, which is not one monolithic organization has probably increased its membership and affiliation around the world.

They haven't increased, they've always been around. Where have you been? Ask a terrorist who they would vote for: Bush or Kerry? There answer will be the one we do not want as our President!

5. 50% of Americans may think that the economy is getting better. Could that be because Bush is lying to them? The deficit is the highest in American history yet Bush inherited a surplus. The unemployment rate has increased since Bush, when he speaks of the number of jobs created, never talks of the almost equal number lost under his watch.

50% of us do not depend on the government for jobs! And the government only controls 33% of our economy. So I guess only 50% feel lied to?? We supported Bush going into Iraq, and the $87 billion to do it. What you say about our defecit is true, we knew that... How many billions do you think we lost on 9/11 contributed to that defecit?

6. It is still not known where Bush was after the WTC. All that is known is that he was not at the post he should have been at. He, it seems, was keeping his own hide safe. Compare this with other leaders - Churchill for one, who were always to be found exercising leadership during attacks.

This would have been SOP (standard operating procedure) for any President. And he is capable of running the country from Air Force1... Assessing the situation, like any president should be.

7. The Bush tax cuts have not brought an earlier tax freedom date. They have shifted the burden of services to the individual, mostly to the individuals that cannot afford it. They have caused the reduction of expenditures on education in spite of the myth of "No child left behind." They have increased the numbers without health coverage by 5 million. They have led to the necessity for most State governments to raise taxes.

This is a sensible tax cut. Not Bush's fault that each and every state had a "special interest" dipping into the budget while under Clinton., wasting our tax dollars.

Bush has spent far more than $87 billion in Iraq> That is just the additional procurement. Worse, he has spent thousands of lives - tens of thousands if you include the injured and traumatized. And, that does not include several times that number of Iraqis.

I agree! Definitely should have had a better plan before invading. But that doesn't mean we are or will fail, or that he lied!

Clinton had the agreement and cooperation of the Community of nations over Serbia. Bush had no wide support for Iraq.

At least Bush didn't go on a 10 day bombing campaign and used NATO to do it! Lets see... Sadaam fools the world for 10 years (hiding WMD's, kicking out weapons inspectors, burying MIG 25's, abusing the "oil for food" program, etc.) Needless to say, harboring terrorists. The U.S. finally does something about it, regardless of naive countries, and we're the bad guy?

Milosevic may never be convicted except of crimes against his own. Genocide is not on and neither is "war crimes."

Evil is evil... war crimes or genocide! Either term equals "atrocities" in which we are not committing in Iraq.

Ironically, Saddam may prove to be also an embarassment if he is ever brought to trial. There is no evidence of genocide there either. The mass graves predicted have not been found and the "atrocities" against the Shiites were a stamping out of insurrection.

So did Sadaam accidentally murder his own people? Maybe Bush nuked the Kurds??

This is just one article (There were many) And I didn't pull this from the U.S. media (trying to be fair here...)

Mass grave sites

Take heed to the part where it said, "Forty sites confirmed..."

The deisgnation of Saddam as evil does not give Bush an excuse for an unprovoked attack on a sovereign nation.

We made it clear that we are not attacking Iraqi's! Even went out of our way to drop "leaflets" and broadcast over megaphones in their language, protecting civillians, mosques, etc. If we attacked a sovereign nation, we would have wiped them out! We took out the Iraqi Army, and are now fighting terrorists, not Iraqi's. I think they are clear on this!

It really is scary how little Americans seem to know of what is happening to their country, domestically and internationally.

We know what's going on! Funny how you really don't know what's going on with Canada (no choice on healthcare, criminals can vote, permanent residency vs. non-permanent social issues, high unemployement rate [with a tiny population], the list goes on...) But you are first to let us know what you think of America. And what we need to do! I love defending America, and will not attack Canada!

[Newfie Canadian]

BigDookie6.

Changed my signature just for you. Like it?

I worry about my government and Martin all the time, whether it's their scandalous activities, breaking promises, or just being ridiculous, which happens often. And trust me, I worry about them a lot more than I worry about the American government.

Here you go BigDookie6. Complete with animations and everything. Anyone can get it from this.

http://www.curlingbasics.com/

For the record, as I've said earlier, I have nothing against the United States or Americans. I do have issues with the government. Having said that, I have issues with my own government, and I don't hide that fact.

I also love defending my country, and I seem to doing a lot of it lately, not so much here but elsewhere. There's another great quote that comes to mind about it but I'll save it for later.

Your seem to know something about Canadian issues. Not bad.

[BigDookie6]

You're alright "Newfie"!

Not a bad site, might actually learn something here!

[BigDookie6]

Either you stole your points either from another MLweb poster or you're poth working from the same G.O.P talking points. In either case, it's irrelevant, as they are all worthless. In order to be worth a dambn, you'd have to prove that anybody here would call any of Clinton's deeds cited "good".

What does it matter? You live in Canada, right? Let me ask you... If Bush and U.S. foreign policy bother you so much, explain to me how they personally affect you? Does our foreign policy oppress you? Keep you from getting a good job? Going to school? Does it affect your unemployment/healthcare benefits? Minimum wage? Immigration?

STFU

[I miss Reagan]

Dookie you're wasting your time if you are honestly trying to get an answer from Canadians. Canadians have an ingrained superiority complex towards Americans. It's a combination of being indoctrinated to believe that the whole world loves Canadians and hates Americans by our ultra-left wing media, newspapers and education system. It doesn't help that Canadians are incredibly jealous of the US.

[Newfie Canadian]

It doesn't help that Canadians are incredibly jealous of the US.

That is the only part of your statement that I would take exception to, IMR. The rest of it I wouldn't argue.

In regards to US foreign policy BD6, I'll try this example.

A recent foreign policy decision of the US has contributed to, not solely but partially, the increase of instability in the Middle East, which in turn has affected the price of oil.

I think it would be fair to say that that particular US foreign policy decision has affected people all over the world and not just in the US. I think that you can keep going with the trickle down affects.

It concerns me personally in that I heat my house with an oil furnace, and now instead of costing me about $400 a month like last year, this year it will be closer to $600 a month.

Before you start yelling at me, I did say it was part of the problem, not the sole cause.

[I miss Reagan]

Let me clarify Newfie. I think Canadians are jealous of the power and clout that the US has in the world. They are jealous of the wealth of the US which Canadians feel they don't deserve because they are stupid. As for their environment, crime rate etc. Canadians are not jealous of course.

[Newfie Canadian]

I can live with that, I miss Reagan, for the most part.

[Guest eureka]

BD6!

Is that supposed to be a response? It is nothing but the same assertions born of ignorance and misinformation.

The only part of it that might have been worth the time it took to write was on the question of mass graves. With respect to that, did you notice the stale date? Sonce then, that has been shown to be more misinformation. No mass graves have, as yet, been found.

I also seem to be misinformed if I am to believe you. All along I have been under the "delusion" that it was Iraq that was being attacked when you tell me it is not. Dropping leaflets makes an attack not an attack. I gather.

As for thinking it would be a "Piece of Cake" in Iraq, I suggest that you have not watched anything but Fox and have read nothing but Bush speeches.

I, like most around the world told you the opposite. We told you that the casualties would be even higher than they have been SO FAR. We also told you that you had no justification to invade Iraq and no right to sacrifice a single life.

Do you really still believe that Iraq harboued terrorists. Of course you do since you read nothing that does not come from the Pentagon. The fact is that it did not and the whole world knows it apart from that part of the American population that has not yet awakened to the deception by an administration that also knows it.

[August1991]

Changed my signature just for you. Like it?

Thank you, Nfld. Concision is the mark of clear thinking.

[Black Dog]

What does it matter? You live in Canada, right? Let me ask you... If Bush and U.S. foreign policy bother you so much, explain to me how they personally affect you? Does our foreign policy oppress you? Keep you from getting a good job? Going to school? Does it affect your unemployment/healthcare benefits? Minimum wage? Immigration?

Well, BigTurd, it's the duty of any decent huiman being to oppose injustice, corruption and ignorance: all hallmarks of U.S. foreign policy embraced by the Bush administration. Not all of us like to keep our heads buried in the sand.

I think Canadians are jealous of the power and clout that the US has in the world. They are jealous of the wealth of the US which Canadians feel they don't deserve because they are stupid.

What is this, high school? Grow up. The sheer arrogance of such a statement is precisely why people think of USians as "Ugly Americans".

[I miss Reagan]

Well, BigTurd, it's the duty of any decent huiman being to oppose injustice, corruption and ignorance:

The US is fighting injustice, corruption, and ignorance... or do you consider the Taliban and Saddam beacons of human decency?

Not all of us like to keep our heads buried in the sand.

But Canada does keep it's head in the sand. Where was Canada when Saddam was gasing the Kurds, where was Canada when the Taliban was executing women, where has Canada been the past 20 years while the Sudanese government has been killing it's own people, why does Canada put up with China and it's human rights violations? Instead Canadians are too worried about what the US and George Bush are doing, banging drums and protesting in the streets. It's insane.

I think Canadians are jealous of the power and clout that the US has in the world. They are jealous of the wealth of the US which Canadians feel they don't deserve because they are stupid.

What is this, high school? Grow up. The sheer arrogance of such a statement is precisely why people think of USians as "Ugly Americans".

It's true, Canadians are jealous. It's a little mans syndrome. Angry that no body pays attention to them. No, Canadians are the the ones who suffer from arrogance.

[Black Dog]

The US is fighting injustice, corruption, and ignorance... or do you consider the Taliban and Saddam beacons of human decency?

Funny: both examples you cite were former U.S. clients. How does that fit your narrative that the U.S. is a paragon of democracy or human rights? If anything these examples show how the U.S has been wiling to subvert and supress those ideals in service of its own economic or political interests. They didn't take Saddam out of the kindness of their hearts, they didn't remove the Taliban so that girl's could go to school. It's realpolitik, baby.

. Where was Canada when Saddam was gasing the Kurds, where was Canada when the Taliban was executing women, where has Canada been the past 20 years while the Sudanese government has been killing it's own people, why does Canada put up with China and it's human rights violations? Instead Canadians are too worried about what the US and George Bush are doing, banging drums and protesting in the streets. It's insane.

Funny: where was the U.S. during all those? the day Saddam gassed the Kurds, Donald Rumsfeld was shaking the man's hand in Baghdad.

Canada is no saint in it's own dealings with the developing world, but you can bet any harm we've caused or allowed is a mere fraction of that which the U.S. has undertaken.

It's true, Canadians are jealous. It's a little mans syndrome. Angry that no body pays attention to them. No, Canadians are the the ones who suffer from arrogance.

Yeah, we also hate them because they're so darn popular.

World views of the U.S.

[BigDookie6]

Well, BigTurd, it's the duty of any decent huiman being to oppose injustice, corruption and ignorance: all hallmarks of U.S. foreign policy embraced by the Bush administration. Not all of us like to keep our heads buried in the sand.

Who's in high school? The "duty"? Says who? Who made you "Mr. self-righteous"? So what are you doing to oppose what you mentioned, besides complaining? Thanks for letting me know that my government is corrupt! Where have you been for so long? Again I ask, how is it affecting you personally? Try not to dodge this time!

As for you Eureka... WTF are you talking about?

Your first four paragraphs were, "huh?"

I'll only comment on your last two, as they made a little sense:

I, like most around the world told you the opposite. We told you that the casualties would be even higher than they have been SO FAR. We also told you that you had no justification to invade Iraq and no right to sacrifice a single life.

You're right... Most of the world disagreed with the invasion. But this isn't a popularity contest. If the UN said, "Jump" would you say, "How high?"

Or maybe countries disagreed because they were afraid of being exposed for the "Oil for food" scandal?? (Can you say that the UN is being exposed?) Funny you never mention that one! Who are you or even Canada to say, we do not have the right to sacrifice a single life? Why don't you say that to the thousands who volunteer yearly to serve in the U.S. military and willingly sacrifice their rights for a certain amount of time? War is war Eureka, and it's not pretty. It's human nature. At least we're not committing atrocities! "We come to right wrongs..."

Do you really still believe that Iraq harboued terrorists. Of course you do since you read nothing that does not come from the Pentagon. The fact is that it did not and the whole world knows it apart from that part of the American population that has not yet awakened to the deception by an administration that also knows it.

Yep...Sadaam! That's all I needed to be convinced! Where have you been? You also left out that we are also being deceived by the British government not just the Bush Admin. Evaluate for what things are, not what you want them to be!

[Black Dog]

Again I ask, how is it affecting you personally? Try not to dodge this time!

My response indicated that something doesn't have to affect me personally for me to be concerned with it. By your logic, canadad should have turned away U.S.-bound flights on 9-11, since that catastrophe wasn't our problem.

At least we're not committing atrocities! "We come to right wrongs..."

Except "you" are. Abu Ghirab. DU. Napalm. "Collateral damage"....