Canada singled out as global leader in the fight against malnutrition

[Guest Kenneth]

Whenever people offer suggestions to solve poverty there is always going to be bleeding-hearts who will oppose it.

[guyser]

Bleeding hearts , aka people who understand poverty can never be solved, are merely trying to save the right from being dumb.

Kind of the same with welfare , we talked about this years ago and found less than 1% of welfare was fraud.

IOW, the cure is more costly than the disease.

[TimG]

Poverty, and bad choices by those who are poor, are quite often linked to systematic problems within society, and is a systemic problem in itself.

Problems that are not going to be solved by handing out food or money - which is my point. If we had any idea on how to solve them we would have already.

[Guest Kenneth]

Bleeding hearts , aka people who understand poverty can never be solved, are merely trying to save the right from being dumb.

Kind of the same with welfare , we talked about this years ago and found less than 1% of welfare was fraud.

IOW, the cure is more costly than the disease.

No bleeding-hearts who want poverty to conform to their ideological theories, who only understand it from an abstract, "intellectual" perspective. They need poverty to exist so that governments and other organizations will create agencies and institutions that are populated with people who earned otherwise useless social sciences degrees in college/university.

[guyser]

No bleeding-hearts who want poverty to conform to their ideological theories, who only understand it from an abstract, "intellectual" perspective. They need poverty to exist so that governments and other organizations will create agencies and institutions that are populated with people who earned otherwise useless social sciences degrees in college/university.

Ok, you can believe that should you wish.

Thats deep thinking , the poor and poverty exist to help those who work in the system.

Not to mention the likelihood of most who work in the system would not have a degree at all. But hey, dont let common sense rear its ugly head .

[silver72]

Some of you may not know that many people going to the food banks now were middle class who lost their jobs and can't find work or can only find part time which doesn't pay the bills, so the food bank is the only way to feed their family. There's some really sad cases out there from the down turn.

[hitops]

Adding more government programming will not solve this problem. At some point you have diminishing returns, you can spend infinite money and not make much difference for some people. It makes a lot more sense to spend the money where it packs a much larger punch, such as in Asian or African countries where the parenting might be solid but the resources are lacking.

I definitely would support means-tested school based meal programs though.

[Guest American Woman]

Like I said, malnourishment in Canada is largely the result of bad choices by individuals rather than a systematic problem with society. Kids in toxic home environments may need to be removed from the home.

Nourishment in Canada is not limited to kids in toxic home environments by any means. It's a problem within the senior population,

CALGARY, AB, Mar. 28, 2013/ Troy Media/ – Too many seniors are not able to afford enough healthy food – or enough food at all, according to a Statistics Canada study released last week.

http://www.troymedia.com/2013/03/28/seniors-nutrition-a-critical-issue-in-canada/

[Moonlight Graham]

Problems that are not going to be solved by handing out food or money - which is my point. If we had any idea on how to solve them we would have already.

I never said simply handing out food or money is the answer, that's for sure. So we agree on that.

"Solving" poverty is very likely not possible beyond massive economic system transformation etc. But there's a heck of a lot more that can be done to help the poorest people in Canada. The government doesn't have the money (or the time, or the human resources, or the will) to solve/help every problem in the country and/or around the world to the extent needed/wanted, so it has to pick and choose.

Back to the original post (not by you), Canada should find a balance between directing resources and policy measures towards helping both the poor in Canada and the absolute poor in the rest of the world.

[Moonlight Graham]

Whenever people offer suggestions to solve poverty there is always going to be bleeding-hearts who will oppose it.

What exactly do you mean by that?

[Moonlight Graham]

No bleeding-hearts who want poverty to conform to their ideological theories, who only understand it from an abstract, "intellectual" perspective. They need poverty to exist so that governments and other organizations will create agencies and institutions that are populated with people who earned otherwise useless social sciences degrees in college/university.

Not going to say there aren't people out there like this, but to generalize "bleeding hearts" (aka people who give a s**t about other people) as the above is ignorant nonsense.

Probably the profession that spends the most time working face-to-face to provide services to people with lower incomes are social workers and similar professions. Social Work is far from a useless social science degree, nor is something like psychology, economics etc.

As we all know, people who are conservative about issues of poverty of course have far more real-life experience dealing with poor people. They also want poverty to conform to their intellectual theories (sometimes theories that are largely untested/based on limited personal observation or heresay and not on actual evidence).

Edited May 21, 2013 by Moonlight Graham

[jacee]

Adding more government programming will not solve this problem. At some point you have diminishing returns, you can spend infinite money and not make much difference for some people. It makes a lot more sense to spend the money where it packs a much larger punch, such as in Asian or African countries where the parenting might be solid but the resources are lacking.

I definitely would support means-tested school based meal programs though.

Meals in schools are important.

Means testing is a very expensive paperwork and labour process. If your parent doesn't do paperwork, you don't eat?

Some kids get food, others don't?

Do we paint X's on the 'poor' ones?

All kids should have access to food during the day, regardless.

[MatthieuJGagne]

great job Canada!, but we still have alot to do in our own country like getting rid of mcdonalds and wendys LOL

[Archanfel]

I am confused, why is it a "savvy investment"? What's the rate of return? What are the alpha and the beta? What's the MER? Exactly what did the author base his conclusions on?

[margrace]

0ur food banks are growing, we are in gazebo tony's riding but he is too busy being the big boy to bother with us. I notice that with what is going on in Ottawa he isn't sitting up close to the PM lately.

Our food bank has been going for over 20 years. We only allow use 4 times a year. Over that one has to bring in all their bills etc and show why they need help. My position was to interview everyone who came in and we keep strict records of everyone using it. I have come home from the food bank in tears after listening to the awful things that happen to people. Most try very hard not to us them. I have only encountered several people over the years who were rather suspect.

[Archanfel]

0ur food banks are growing, we are in gazebo tony's riding but he is too busy being the big boy to bother with us. I notice that with what is going on in Ottawa he isn't sitting up close to the PM lately.

Our food bank has been going for over 20 years. We only allow use 4 times a year. Over that one has to bring in all their bills etc and show why they need help. My position was to interview everyone who came in and we keep strict records of everyone using it. I have come home from the food bank in tears after listening to the awful things that happen to people. Most try very hard not to us them. I have only encountered several people over the years who were rather suspect.

How did they try? And more importantly, since when did they start to try? Let's say I drove a car at 200km/hr raising towards a red light, and within 10m of the light, I slamed on the brake and tried my best to stop the car. Would you say I have tried very hard to not run the red light?

You really don't need to try very hard to earn a living in this country, IF you start early enough. I understand things can happen in life and there are always personal circumstances. However, it's hard to say they are totally blameless in most cases.

Food bank is really not the solution. On one hard, people need to be made to take responsibilties for their actions. On the other hand, society needs to give people a helping hand if they really do want to try a different life.

[margrace]

I guess the main question is what exactly are we entitled to in life. I had a lady come in for food, she just needed one time help because she had just bought a house in our area, houses are pretty cheap here compared to other places, one can buy a good house for a little over $100,000. Then she found that although she had worked for one company for years that the pension she had paid into and the shares she had bought in the company were all gone. The company had gone bankrupt. So what would you have done. She was completely on her own.

She was of my generation where you got a good job for life, much like the thousands who worked for Kodak and lost everything. When the car companies went into slow down they laid off thousands and yes they are doing better but they are only employing a percentage of those thousands. Sitting in the seat of judgement is very easy when you had the luck to pick the right company to work for

[jacee]

How did they try? And more importantly, since when did they start to try? Let's say I drove a car at 200km/hr raising towards a red light, and within 10m of the light, I slamed on the brake and tried my best to stop the car. Would you say I have tried very hard to not run the red light?

You really don't need to try very hard to earn a living in this country, IF you start early enough. I understand things can happen in life and there are always personal circumstances. However, it's hard to say they are totally blameless in most cases.

Food bank is really not the solution. On one hard, people need to be made to take responsibilties for their actions. On the other hand, society needs to give people a helping hand if they really do want to try a different life.

We're talking about feeding children.

[jacee]

Adding more government programming will not solve this problem. At some point you have diminishing returns, you can spend infinite money and not make much difference for some people.

Food makes a lot of difference to hungry children and they need it at least 3 times a day. Hungry children have no energy or concentration to achieve, so they have bleak futures. Food makes all the difference.

It makes a lot more sense to spend the money where it packs a much larger punch, such as in Asian or African countries where the parenting might be solid but the resources are lacking.

HUNHH!?!?

I definitely would support means-tested school based meal programs though.

Food should be available to all children.

[jacee]

Is it my job to feed my neighbours children? Yes, minister, it is

Certainly, we want to make sure that kids go to school full-bellied, but is that always the governments job to be there to serve people their breakfast?

Then, he delivered his kicker quote.Is it my job to feed my neighbours child? I dont think so, Moore said.

Hardly the sort of sentiment a canny politician ought to express just before Christmas. When the barrage of Scrooge and Grinch jokes started on social media, Moore sought vainly to defend himself, claiming hed been lied about or misquoted or quoted out of context, making out that he was the victim of bullying.

Unfortunately for Moore, the reporter had the entire exchange recorded. When the raw audio was posted online Sunday, Canadians could hear for themselves the ministers ugly and uncharitable words, in their full context, and make their own judgments.

Finally, late Monday morning, Moore issued an abject apology for his insensitive comment.Caring for each other is a Canadian ethic that I strongly believe in always have and always will, Moores statement read.

And he expects us to believe him now?

[jacee]

/intense-child-poverty-needs-government-commitment/

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) Industry Minister James Moore may have apologized Monday for comments he made to News1130 Friday over government responsibility when it comes to child poverty and kids going to school hungry, but many groups say actions speak louder than words. Along with poverty watchdogs, educators are now calling on the federal government to step up and help finally solve the problem.

Vancouver School Board Chair Patti Bacchussays teachers see kids coming to school with untreated medical conditions and troubles with attention span because theyre not getting enough food, and kids who come to school exhausted because their living situation is unstable.

I wait for Harper to step up and put some effort into resolving child malnutrition in Canada.

It's shameful that lives are being compromised by lack of proper food in childhood ... in Canada.

[Keepitsimple]

The whole James Moore kafuffle made me want to punch something. It's a sympton of why it's almost impossible to have a mature discussion on important matters. Who's responsible for Child Poverty? Well, the closer you are to the children, the more you can be engaged and the more responsibility you should accept. In order of proximity that would mean:

1) Parents

2) Relatives/extended family (everything/anything possible)

3) Community Groups/religious organizations (Clothing, meals, guidance)

4) City (Foodbanks, school programs)

5) Province (e.g.Welfare)

6) Federal Government (economy, taxation)

Everyone has a role to play. That's really what Moore was trying to say - and he was right - it's not the Federal Government's role to feed a kid breakfast. They are so far removed from individual children that they can only be a facilitator for things that they can provide - a boost to the economy for jobs, tax reform to target poor people (who for the most part, pay little or no tax).

He didn't need to apologize. We ALL have a role to play and Canadians should become more acquainted with where the responsibility really lies. It's not in a grand plan from the top down - it's a bottom-up commitment with the empahsis on family.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Keepitsimple

[The_Squid]

Moore has his... his family is well fed. According to Moore and his ilk, if a kid isn't fed it is not his problem and is a personality fault in the parents. Never mind the child... if they are irresponsible enough not to be able to feed their children then I guess the kids deserve to go hungry...

Moore did not say "everyone has a role to play". That's a spin.

He said "Am I responsible to feed my neighbour's kid? No".

[Keepitsimple]

Moore has his... his family is well fed. According to Moore and his ilk, if a kid isn't fed it is not his problem and is a personality fault in the parents. Never mind the child... if they are irresponsible enough not to be able to feed their children then I guess the kids deserve to go hungry...

Moore did not say "everyone has a role to play". That's a spin.

He said "Am I responsible to feed my neighbour's kid? No".

It's not about his clumsy words - it's about the substance of what he would have said if it had not been such a short interview.....and I'm more referring to the issue itself - rather than James Moore being a good guy/bad guy. The issue is important - and when the twitter universe starts its frenzy - the issue itself takes a back seat.....and that can be maddening.

[jacee]

It's not about his clumsy words - it's about the substance of what he would have said ...

You don't know what he "would have said"!

His 'apology' is meaningless political pandering penned by a Conservative spin doctor.

His first reaction was the sincere one, the real James Moore.

Those who have a right wing 'survival of the fittest' mentality do believe and behave as if children deserve the torture of malnourishment and lost potential because of their parents' shortcomings.

ALL children should have 3 nutritious meals.

It's a shameful waste of human potential to let children go hungry.

.