AG says, show me the money

[jacee]

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2013/04/30/dude-whered-i-leave-my-3-1b-in-anti-terror-funding/

Dude, where'd I leave my $3.1B in anti-terror funding?

When the government designed the PSAT Initiative in 2001, it had five goals: Keeping terrorists out of Canada; deterring, preventing, detecting and prosecuting or removing terrorists; facilitating relations between Canada and the U.S.; supporting international initiatives; and protecting Canadas infrastructure.

Treasury Board Secretariat could not tell the AGs office whether any of those goals were being met.

Although the Secretariat had gathered evaluation reports on individual departments and agency activities, it was unable to provide us with an assessment of progress toward each of the five objectives of the PSAT Initiative, Tuesdays audit states. Departments and agencies reported their own program results. We examined selected departmental performance reports and departmental reports on plans and priorities. In all cases, we noted that only limited information was available on spending and results under the Initiative."

So ... not only is $3.1b missing, the other $9.8b isn't well accounted for either! We know where it was spent, but not whether it achieved the intended results.

If Harper wanted to hang this on the Liberals, he should have had it audited when he took power in 2005. He's had control of spending for 8 years and never bothered to check. It's not a political issue: It's an issue of competence in governance. We pay taxes in trust to government, and they MUST account for spending and results. Accountability doesn't just apply to everyone else: It applies first and foremost to the federal government.

Major fail.

Edited May 3, 2013 by jacee

[scribblet]

The programs that the missing was allocated to were set up in 2001. Who was in power in 2001 again?

I think we are being misled by the media and of course the opposition us going to seize and capitalize on this. The optics look bad but if you read the AG report you will find :

This funding relates to the categorization of expenses by Treasury Board between 2001 and 2009, which means the larger part encompasses the previous gov’t. but money has gone missing nor has been misused.

The AG was clear in his report saying: “we didn’t find anything that gave us cause for concern that money was used in any way it should not have been.”

“All of the funds in question are accounted for and “There is no indication that any dollars are missing, misappropriated or misspent.”

[jacee]

I think we are being misled by the media and of course the opposition us going to seize and capitalize on this. The optics look bad but if you read the AG report you will find :

This funding relates to the categorization of expenses by Treasury Board between 2001 and 2009, which means the larger part encompasses the previous govt. but money has gone missing nor has been misused.

The AG was clear in his report saying: we didnt find anything that gave us cause for concern that money was used in any way it should not have been.

All of the funds in question are accounted for and There is no indication that any dollars are missing, misappropriated or misspent.

Link?

That's what Clement says ... from one of his million dollar gazebos.

[WWWTT]

Ah, the Liberals "stole $40m".

Doesn't sound like much now compared to $3.1b unaccounted for by Harper Tories. Could be anywhere, in anyone's pockets ... or offshore accounts.

And what the heck does it have to do with hockey?

Ya actually the conservatives are playing a dangerous game by bringing up Gomery or sponsership now!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

The AG was clear in his report saying: “we didn’t find anything that gave us cause for concern that money was used in any way it should not have been.”

“All of the funds in question are accounted for and “There is no indication that any dollars are missing, misappropriated or misspent.”

But the AG still claims that they do not know where the money went???Or how it was spent???

You got to be freekin kidding me?

So in other words,we don't know where your tax dollar went,but trust us or believe us,everything is OK and you should not worry or ask any questions.

What a freekin joke!

WWWTT

[TimG]

But the AG still claims that they do not know where the money went??? Or how it was spent???

It is not to hard to understand: the money was allocated for 'anti-terrorism' and allocated to various departments that incorporated into the their budgets. All of the money allocated to each department is accounted for (meaning we know what the dept spent money on) but what is missing is a paper trail that shows the departments spent the portion of their budget allocated for 'anti-terrorism' on 'anti-terrorism' activities.

I suspect this is why governments hate earmarked funds because providing documentation that earmarked funds were spent on the specified priority is a nightmare. The real people to blame are the liberals who basically threw money at the departments without any thought to how the money should be spent (largely because they wanted to be seen to be 'doing something' after 9/11).

Edited May 3, 2013 by TimG

[WWWTT]

So in other words,since their is no paper trail,we have to take the word of the people who spent the money.

Sure each department got X amount of dollars,and sure enough,each department spent X amount of dollars.

But on what???

The department head may say,"hey we spent so much on this and on that".

But where's the proof?Where's the evidence?

How do we know that that the money was supposed to go where it was intended to go,and not into some conservative backers donations???

But now,for some reason,a paper trail is something that's not really all that important?

You got to be freekin kidding!

WWWTT

[scribblet]

Link?

That's what Clement says ... from one of his million dollar gazebos.

No where in the report does it say OMG, the Tories have lost a few billion.

http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_oag_201304_08_e_38193.html#hd5d

8.21 As we noted, the Treasury Board allocated $12.9 billion for Initiative activities, but departments and agencies reported spending only $9.8 billion. We therefore asked the Secretariat for information that could help explain how the remaining $3.1 billion allocated between 2001 and 2009 was used.

8.22 We found that the Treasury Board generally restricted the way departments and agencies could use the funds, but it allowed reallocations. In such cases, the Secretariat was to receive assurance from departments and agencies that there would be no impact on the Initiative's activities for which funding had originally been allocated.

8.23 We asked Secretariat officials for information on whether such reallocations had occurred and whether assurances were provided by departments. We were informed that discussions took place between the departments and agencies and the Secretariat as part of the normal program challenge function. However, financial information on reallocations was not captured. The Secretariat, however, worked with us to identify several possible scenarios:

- The funding may have lapsed without being spent.

- It may have been spent on PSAT activities and reported as part of ongoing programs spending.

- It may have been carried forward and spent on programs not related to the Initiative.

[WWWTT]

Lots of "maybe's" there.

WWWTT

[Fletch 27]

Hi WWWTT.. Its all right here.. You can even go back as far as you wish.. Its actually really detailed. I hope that helps

http://www.fin.gc.ca/tax-impot/2012/html-eng.asp

So in other words,since their is no paper trail,we have to take the word of the people who spent the money.

Sure each department got X amount of dollars,and sure enough,each department spent X amount of dollars.

But on what???

The department head may say,"hey we spent so much on this and on that".

But where's the proof?Where's the evidence?

How do we know that that the money was supposed to go where it was intended to go,and not into some conservative backers donations???

But now,for some reason,a paper trail is something that's not really all that important?

You got to be freekin kidding!

WWWTT

[TimG]

But on what???

All department spending has a paper trail. We known exactly what each department spent their budget on and we know that it went to legitimate activities related to the operation of the department (if it did not the AG would have flagged the spending).

What we don't have is a paper trail that shows that each dept spent the portion of their budget allocated to 'anti-terrorism' on 'anti-terrorism' activities.

Frankly, the press coverage of this story is appalling.

[scribblet]

All department spending has a paper trail. We known exactly what each department spent their budget on and we know that it went to legitimate activities related to the operation of the department (if it did not the AG would have flagged the spending).

What we don't have is a paper trail that shows that each dept spent the portion of their budget allocated to 'anti-terrorism' on 'anti-terrorism' activities.

Frankly, the press coverage of this story is appalling.

Less than stellar to be sure. We are being mislead by the media and not only on this issue as they fail to give all the information much of the time. They suggest and imply lots leaving it up to readers' imaginations.

I also don't think that the gov't is doing a good job of getting out their information and reasoning. I'd rather they spent the Trudeau-ad money on buying space in the papers to rebut.

[Fletch 27]

The un-educated voter will always side with the media... I agree, Its time for Harper to educate the brainwashed media fodder.

Less than stellar to be sure. We are being mislead by the media and not only on this issue as they fail to give all the information much of the time. They suggest and imply lots leaving it up to readers' imaginations.

I also don't think that the gov't is doing a good job of getting out their information and reasoning. I'd rather they spent the Trudeau-ad money on buying space in the papers to rebut.

[WWWTT]

Hi WWWTT.. Its all right here.. You can even go back as far as you wish.. Its actually really detailed. I hope that helps

http://www.fin.gc.ca/tax-impot/2012/html-eng.asp

Man when does the comedy end?

How independent is a government site going to be?

WWWTT

[Fletch 27]

Approved by the AG? Ahhhhh, he must be in on this "conspiracy" too.....

Man when does the comedy end?

How independent is a government site going to be?

WWWTT

Edited May 3, 2013 by Fletch 27

[WWWTT]

Ok here's another big huge one!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/05/02/pol-milewski-shipbuilding-design-mystery.html

Here we can clearly see that something is going on.

Voters aren't going to keep turning a blind to this.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Here's some of what the AG said:

"It's a matter of missing that last link in putting that information together," he said at a news conference in Ottawa Tuesday morning. If the money was reallocated from the anti-terrorism program to another program, there should have been approval for that, he added.

"We don’t have enough information to say whether that happened," he said.

This part is troubling:

He found that departments reported spending $9.8 billion of the $12.9 billion allocated for security and anti-terrorism measures under the program but he couldn't determine where the other $3.1 billion went. The Treasury Board had no clear answers for him.

Here's the link it's taken from

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/04/30/pol-auditor-general-spring-report-federal-spending.html

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Terrorists beware!

http://www.shd.ca/its_probably_stopping_terror

WWWTT

[Fletch 27]

Hi WWWTT.. Let me try to help you with that. When KV Svalbard design and drafet the ship, they expended many many big-boy dollars in the process. This included man-hours, resources and R&D.. It was a many years long process SIMPLY in design... Now follow me here.. When Canada decided to get the "drawing" (actually thousands of drawings) KV took the completely IRRATIONAL approach of charging for those drawings.. And Canada paid.. Just like when adults purchase drawings for a custom built home... I only paid 7K for mine but I guess its a "Quantities of scale thing".

No, I will need to make note as we WWWTT that we are not flipping the Bill simply for ONE set of drawings for ONE ship, we are actually purchasing MANY ships of many assorted flavors.. again WWWTT, this will require modifications to said drawing for each and every silly motor-boat, Lets simplify this as in the CBC artice and just refer to them as "Motor-boats"..

This is how things work in the world... Please reference our CANDU reactor designs... You will then see how BAD we are in selling our designs to other countries like Japan and Australia! I wish the CBC also resided in those countries.... Oh the uproar.

Have a great day WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Here's another good pick!

WWWTT

[Fletch 27]

This kind of goes against the rules of this forum on a few fronts WWWTT.. Its not adding to the discussion but bullying via satirical charicatures has had people banned from here. Just a heads up,, Your other posts are valuable and full of content and your inputs would be missed if you got banned

.

Here's another good pick!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Hi WWWTT.. Let me try to help you with that. When KV Svalbard design and drafet the ship, they expended many many big-boy dollars in the process. This included man-hours, resources and R&D.. It was a many years long process SIMPLY in design... Now follow me here.. When Canada decided to get the "drawing" (actually thousands of drawings) KV took the completely IRRATIONAL approach of charging for those drawings.. And Canada paid.. Just like when adults purchase drawings for a custom built home... I only paid 7K for mine but I guess its a "Quantities of scale thing".

No, I will need to make note as we WWWTT that we are not flipping the Bill simply for ONE set of drawings for ONE ship, we are actually purchasing MANY ships of many assorted flavors.. again WWWTT, this will require modifications to said drawing for each and every silly motor-boat, Lets simplify this as in the CBC artice and just refer to them as "Motor-boats"..

This is how things work in the world... Please reference our CANDU reactor designs... You will then see how BAD we are in selling our designs to other countries like Japan and Australia! I wish the CBC also resided in those countries.... Oh the uproar.

Have a great day WWWTT

Ya it looks like you don't really understand how engineering costs work,or if we or you are getting ripped off!

I just had a complete house print done,all elevations,floor plans and a sectional,including the heat loss calculation and heating design for around 1,700,including HST!

Sounds like you got burned there buddy!Better luck next time!

I've been on jobs like Trilliam hospital,Sky dome,Scotia Tower,Brampton hospital,etc,etc.Where the mechanical costs run over 100 million.Believe me,I know what a complete set of architctual,mechanical,electrical,etc drawings/prints run around.

Prices have gone way down since the introduction of various programs such as CAD.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

This kind of goes against the rules of this forum on a few fronts WWWTT.. Its not adding to the discussion but bullying via satirical charicatures has had people banned from here. Just a heads up,, Your other posts are valuable and full of content and your inputs would be missed if you got banned

.

Then report it.I will keep adding what I feel is relevant.

Keep in mind that opinion is relevant.

Even if you do not like the opinion does not mean that I do not have an opinion.

WWWTT

[Fletch 27]

Lets just say my house is rather unique.. Heck, the ground-souce heating was 40K alone!

Funny you mentioned those buildings... Ellis Don was the guys that did Trillium and Ellis Don is also now doing a bang-up Job on the Oakville hospital And I can tell you the costs if you would like simply for that cool bridge of H-Laminate that they are erecting! The Drawing for the bridge/span is just under 1 million dollars! Small world!!

Oh, and im an Engineer and have assisted in a number of Global projects..

Enjoy your house WWWTT! It perfect move in weather! Mine will be a while

Ya it looks like you don't really understand how engineering costs work,or if we or you are getting ripped off!

I just had a complete house print done,all elevations,floor plans and a sectional,including the heat loss calculation and heating design for around 1,700,including HST!

Sounds like you got burned there buddy!Better luck next time!

I've been on jobs like Trilliam hospital,Sky dome,Scotia Tower,Brampton hospital,etc,etc.Where the mechanical costs run over 100 million.Believe me,I know what a complete set of architctual,mechanical,electrical,etc drawings/prints run around.

Prices have gone way down since the introduction of various programs such as CAD.

WWWTT

[Fletch 27]

Hey WWWTT, It was just a friendly heads up... Some may consider that "Bullying" and taking away from the good content in this forum.. After all, "rules are rules" and they seem to apply to everyone..

Then report it.I will keep adding what I feel is relevant.

Keep in mind that opinion is relevant.

Even if you do not like the opinion does not mean that I do not have an opinion.

WWWTT