Conservative attack adds on Trudeau:Right on schedule

[eyeball]

I will explain what I think was wrong with it. First, I understand what he meant, sort of.

So you sort of also didn't understand? Let me guess it was the part about the western imperialism that's causing hundreds of millions of people to hate us isn't it?

And therein lies an invitation to anyone in the world who feels they have been unfairly treated, rightly or wrongly, to start setting off bombs

I think one of the real sources of the worst rage must be the on going denial that we have done anything wrong. I guess at some point something snaps in certain people who must simply believe our society gives tacit approval to some of the things our governments have done and continue to do. They're probably the one's who go past the point of radicalization.

There IS no reasonable cause for murdering the innocent. No matter what our cause is, it doesn't justify this.

Sorry, but I just had to fix that for you.

[WWWTT]

That is not the way I see it.

First of all he makes it clear from the start that perpetrators are enemies and must be caught and brought to justice.

The second point is that we need to try and understand the motives. We need to get in the head of our enemies so that we can prevent future crimes. This does not mean appeasement as you suggest. It just means obtaining a better understanding of the problem - a pre-requisite to finding a solution. An analogy is the study of psychopaths by criminal psychologists. The search for better understanding of a crime does not at justify the crime nor does it imply appeasement.

Ya actually he is talking in a way as if we do not know why someone may do this type of crime.

Furthermore,he is talking as if he was asked what would he do if he was the president of the US or if this crime occured in Canada.

And neither of those questions was asked of him.

Mansbridge is one of the more liberal friendly CBC characters,just wait untill he goes head on with more agressive journalists!

But don't worry,when 2015 comes around,Justin is going to go through hell and high water in trying to keep his seat in Montreal!

WWWTT

[Argus]

So you sort of also didn't understand? Let me guess it was the part about the western imperialism that's causing hundreds of millions of people to hate us isn't it?

Western imperialism? It seems to me that what hurts people out there isn't western imperialism but their own ignorance and their own corrupt governments. The Muslim world is a ready example. They can blame the west for their problems all they want. The fact is it's their own ignorance, their own religious fanaticism, their own cultural backwardness that is responsible for their problems. And that's not our fault.

I think one of the real sources of the worst rage must be the on going denial that we have done anything wrong.

I have yet to hear a complaint from the Muslim world other than "You won't let us kill the filthy Jews!" and "You oppose us overthrowing our evil, corrupt governments so we can put in place evil corrupt Islamist governments!"

Neither of which I consider to be legitimate complaints.

[hitops]

Western imperialism? It seems to me that what hurts people out there isn't western imperialism but their own ignorance and their own corrupt governments. The Muslim world is a ready example. They can blame the west for their problems all they want. The fact is it's their own ignorance, their own religious fanaticism, their own cultural backwardness that is responsible for their problems. And that's not our fault.

I have yet to hear a complaint from the Muslim world other than "You won't let us kill the filthy Jews!" and "You oppose us overthrowing our evil, corrupt governments so we can put in place evil corrupt Islamist governments!"

Neither of which I consider to be legitimate complaints.

I know, the argument of throwing off corrupt dictators sounded good for awhile but I think we forgot why the leaders of our grandparents generation put those corrupt puppets in their in the first place. It was the best available option, both for the locals and for us. And it seems it still is in many of those places.

[eyeball]

Western imperialism? It seems to me that what hurts people out there isn't western imperialism but their own ignorance and their own corrupt governments. The Muslim world is a ready example. They can blame the west for their problems all they want. The fact is it's their own ignorance, their own religious fanaticism, their own cultural backwardness that is responsible for their problems. And that's not our fault.

There is a pretty good reason why ignorance and backwardness has persisted so long. Our ignorance about the role our imperialism has played in arresting the development of the countries we diddle is what hurts us. We are definitely at fault for not recognizing our own backwardness in the scheme of things.

I have yet to hear a complaint from the Muslim world other than "You won't let us kill the filthy Jews!" and "You oppose us overthrowing our evil, corrupt governments so we can put in place evil corrupt Islamist governments!"

Neither of which I consider to be legitimate complaints.

Why would you? They sound like something you pulled out of your butt.

[eyeball]

I know, the argument of throwing off corrupt dictators sounded good for awhile but I think we forgot why the leaders of our grandparents generation put those corrupt puppets in their in the first place. It was the best available option, both for the locals and for us. And it seems it still is in many of those places.

Why don't we see this sort of pagan ethos coming from today's leaders, are they just just too politically correct or do they have something to hide?

Why don't we have a civic holiday celebrating this, we could call it Freedom Day.

Edited April 19, 2013 by eyeball

[Argus]

There is a pretty good reason why ignorance and backwardness has persisted so long. Our ignorance about the role our imperialism has played in arresting the development of the countries we diddle is what hurts us. We are definitely at fault for not recognizing our own backwardness in the scheme of things.

Why would you? They sound like something you pulled out of your butt.

All this really comes down to is paternalistic bleeding heart guilt on your part. Want to tell me what te US did against Chechens which led those two dumbasses to blow up people at the Boston marathon? Do explain their outrage and why the US repent.

[hitops]

Why don't we see this sort of pagan ethos coming from today's leaders, are they just just too politically correct or do they have something to hide?

Why don't we have a civic holiday celebrating this, we could call it Freedom Day.

Nobody will publicly support dictatorship, it is not possible to explain to people that dictator A is better than dictator B in a way that wouldn't get you crucified.

Who's freedom are we supporting? Most of the time revolutions in the middle east don't bring much freedom, just another bad guy. We might as well go with the bad guy who makes the least trouble.

Edited April 19, 2013 by hitops

[BubberMiley]

Oops...wrong thread

Edited April 19, 2013 by BubberMiley

[WWWTT]

The appropriate response is "Let's find out how this happened so we can prevent it from happening again." That was also Trudeau's response. Your response is "How can we blame this on our political opponents so that we can profit from it?" Which is more appropriate?Where did he use the "precise" word "empathy"? You made that up because you don't have a leg to stand on, but want to continue to exploit this tragedy for political purposes.

How many times do I have to remind you that gaining knowledge does not mean gaining empathy?

I will agree that the conservatives are starting to claim that Justin said something that he did not.

But the cold hard fact is that many times,nothing can be done to completely prevent a crime from happening.

We all know this,we all know that much has to be done to get to the bottom of this.

But Justin wanted to imply that he can do things better because all the other politicians have got it wrong.

And after Harper continued to politicize Justin's words,Justin came out saying that Harper was playing partisan politics,and that my friend makes Justin a "hypocrite"!

WWWTT

[Archanfel]

The appropriate response is "Let's find out how this happened so we can prevent it from happening again." That was also Trudeau's response. Your response is "How can we blame this on our political opponents so that we can profit from it?" Which is more appropriate?Where did he use the "precise" word "empathy"? You made that up because you don't have a leg to stand on, but want to continue to exploit this tragedy for political purposes.

How many times do I have to remind you that gaining knowledge does not mean gaining empathy?

Actually, that's not what's Trudeau's response at all. He simply tried to use it to advanced his views, or like you said, "blame this on his political opponents so that he could profit from it". He didn't tried find out how this happened. He already said exactly how it happened: "there is no question that this happened because there is someone who feels completely excluded".

Gaining knowledge requires an open mind. Mr. Trudeau has made up his mind. He is not interested in knowledge.

[eyeball]

All this really comes down to is paternalistic bleeding heart guilt on your part.

And an empty pagan ethos, on your's.

Want to tell me what te US did against Chechens which led those two dumbasses to blow up people at the Boston marathon? Do explain their outrage and why the US repent.

Nothing overt that I can see. I'm chalking it up to a combination of moral dissonance and something about Marshall McLuhan's the medium is the message keeps nagging at my thinking. To me there really does appear to be a new disease of the psyche loose in the world that I liken to tinnitus, mostly because tinnitus is incurable.

I think it's too late to repent. Complete collapse and a protracted interregnum is the only future I can see at this point.

[eyeball]

Nobody will publicly support dictatorship, it is not possible to explain to people that dictator A is better than dictator B in a way that wouldn't get you crucified.

No, and it's the attempt to behave like complete ass holes while pretending we're saints that's at the heart of the moral dissonance that plagues our planet.

Who's freedom are we supporting?

I was being facetious.

Most of the time revolutions in the middle east don't bring much freedom, just another bad guy. We might as well go with the bad guy who makes the least trouble.

Good luck with that.

[Shakeyhands]

Ok.... this is getting ridiculous!!! How dare the CPC!!!!!!

4 years of that would be way too much!

[hitops]

No, and it's the attempt to behave like complete ass holes while pretending we're saints that's at the heart of the moral dissonance that plagues our planet.

I can't wave a magic wand and make arabs fall in love with civil society and rule of law, I would if I could. They are going kill each other until the guy with the best organized gang wins. What I can do is plead that our leaders at least help prop up the least troublesome warlord of the available choices.

Good luck with that.

It's worked pretty well in some places, and in others not. What can you do? Just sit around and hope they all play well together?

[eyeball]

I can't wave a magic wand and make arabs fall in love with civil society and rule of law, I would if I could.

You can't poke a hornet's nest with a stick either and expect a happy ending.

It's worked pretty well in some places, and in others not. What can you do? Just sit around and hope they all play well together?

That's pretty much all you can do if you expect anyone to respect you in the morning.

[Argus]

You can't poke a hornet's nest with a stick either and expect a happy ending.

No? Seems to me the most blatant and unrepentant supporters of middle east dictators now are the Russians and Chinese. They continued to spport Sudan, no matter how many they slaughtered. They continue to support Syria. They support Iran. They both are murderously repressive towards their own Muslims populations. They support many brutal thugs around the world. But nobody is trying to go to Russia or China to blow people up. The world wide Islamist brotherhood doesn't target Russians or Chinese at all. Explain that.

[eyeball]

No? Seems to me the most blatant and unrepentant supporters of middle east dictators now are the Russians and Chinese. They continued to spport Sudan, no matter how many they slaughtered. They continue to support Syria. They support Iran. They both are murderously repressive towards their own Muslims populations. They support many brutal thugs around the world. But nobody is trying to go to Russia or China to blow people up. The world wide Islamist brotherhood doesn't target Russians or Chinese at all. Explain that.

They're not running around the planet also pretending to be saints would be my guess. Maybe it's hypocrisy that really pisses them off.

But in any case China is up against the increasingly militant Uyghur and the Russians keep poking sticks into Chechnya. Shit-storm clouds are gathering on their horizons too.