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Native chief over 20 days in hunger strike to protest Budget Bill


Eyrie

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Duncan has no place at the negotiating table. He has no authority...

Well, there's an attitude that's going to get everyone to a solution fast; the arrogant assumption of self-granted power to declare a minister of the Crown, accountable, as he is, to the elected House of Commons, to have "no authority". Someone needs to come down off their high horse, methinks.

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Is there any real purpose behind this thread other than to breed hostility?

The hunger strike is a form of protest and its a sacred fast in our culture. We do not have many options to protest/oppose or reject any legislation without being labelled as a 'terrorist'. Beleive me when I say, that the native nations are exhausting every effort to resist peacefully and strive for a positive relationship with the current government. Duncan has no place at the negotiating table. He has no authority and in fact represents what is horribly failing us all. If we are going to make any progress with discussions, it has to be leader to leader.

Offer sound solutions instead of antagonizing the situation please.

Hi Native Charm.

I have a lot of sympathy for the history of the FN's of the Americas. I don't think we do enough and I don't think blaming the chiefs is a good enough reason to allow existing conditions to continue. I think treaties should be honoured. I also dislike Stephen Harper. his government, their priorirites and pretty much 99% of the things they've done.

Basically, I would be a perfect ally for your cause, but I just... can't.

You see, I don't think a hunger-strike has any place in a democracy. Sometimes budgets get slashed, other times taxes get raised. There are always some who are happy and some who aren't. It's just part of the game. It's called scarcity and each government has their priorities.

Funny you think people think her actions are like a terrorist, I don't see that at all. A hunger strike reminds me of my 3 year old daughter throwing a temper tantrum just because she didn't get something she wanted.

Sure, she drew a lot of attention to the issue, but in my honest opinion, it's not very positive. She even managed to throw off a sympathetic voter like myself.

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There are just too many groups protesting their own agendas. None seem to be able to articulate a cohesive front with many at cross purposes but suggesting that they represent the same people. Those wanting more money will not open their own books for scrutiny. Those demanding more autonomy cannot decide on who is representing them. Before I can take any of their “protests” seriously they have to decide on a common front and specific representatives. Until then there will be no serious dialogue or resolution.

Edited by Big Guy
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I believe she is, the government has been stalling and dragging their feet just long enough to let china make you its newest citizen. Yay FIPA, when your tax dollars start going to all the law suits china will be throwing at your government, I wonder how quickly you will be able to solve the problem then. Your rights are at the stake just as much, yet they dont want you to figure it out. and by the time you do, it will be too late.

Yeah, I didnt actually think you had any solutions and I am sure you would like us all to be quiet and simply go away, but we're not. Threads like this are pathetic and reminds me that I got better things to do. This is why we have so much animosity between Natives and non- natives.

Excellent post. Harper is selling Canada to China and treating Canadians like 2nd class citizens.

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Now it seems her BF was made co -leader or something like that, and reportedly made 221g's last year.

He did not. In fact the contracted firm that he works for did not make that much money (about 150g). The very source that Sun Media uses for this makes that very clear. Sun Media knows that what they are saying is not correct, as it has been pointed out to them repeatedly, but you can sure that they will keep blowing that dog whistle. If Sun Media feels that they need to lie to incite the level of anger and racism they feel is required...maybe they should re-evaluate their position.

Zamboni anyone?

The zamboni did not come out of band funds, but through community fund raising. Sun Media also knows this full well.

Edited by Wayward Son
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The zamboni did not come out of band funds, but through community fund raising. Sun Media also knows this full well.
So you saying the 'community' had enough money to buy a Zamboni but no money to get people out of tents in the winter? That is actually worse than having it paid from from band funds because it shows that the community is not able/willing to look after its own. Edited by TimG
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So you saying the 'community' had enough money to buy a Zamboni but no money to get people out of tents in the winter? That is actually worse than having it paid from from band funds because it shows that the community is not able/willing to look after its own.

The cost of the zamboni was a fraction of what it costs to provide a single new house in Attawapiskat. The claim made here and at Sun Media is that the money is being provided but is being lost through corruption. The best they seem to be able to muster to support this assertion is that some community members fund-raised to replace their zamboni which has zero to do with the claim. At the same time we have several years of Shelia Fraser AG reports on FIrst Nations housing that have been pretty damning, to put it mildly, towards the various federal governments. The federal government is my representative on this issue and AG report after AG report has said that they are not doing their job, and not improving from audit to audit. That is what I concern myself with.

Passing the buck from a ministry, and a bunch of very large organizations all doing a very poor job with a large amount of money, to a small group of people using their time and effort to improve the lives of children in their community is most likely the stupidest thing I have ever read in my life.

Edited by Wayward Son
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If Sun Media feels that they need to lie to incite the level of anger and racism they feel is required...maybe they should re-evaluate their position.

How do you feel about CanWest, then, which reported on television that Spence and her spouse/boyfriend/partner/whatever-he-is together earned a six digit number of dollars?

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I think the point about compensation for Chiefs does illustrate a need for openness, and an implicit request from Canadians for assurance that things are being well-managed. It's understandable and fair to ask for that.

However, I don't think pointing out that these people are well-paid is license to walk away and jettison this issue. To do so ensures that the status quo continues - to leave the issue to the current leadership on both sides.

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However, I don't think pointing out that these people are well-paid is license to walk away and jettison this issue. To do so ensures that the status quo continues - to leave the issue to the current leadership on both sides.
So you acknowledge we have a situation where the people demanding money seem to be, at best, hypocritical if not corrupt yet you expect governments to give even more money with no questions asked? I don't follow your logic.

BTW: I think this article is a good discussion of the real issues:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/04/no-chief-complaint-idle-no-mores-vague-demands-butting-up-against-pms-pragmatism/

As recently as mid-December, Mr. Jules and several chiefs voiced their own disdain for the way the Indian Act governs land leasing, asking Parliament to get rid of certain provisions that add months, if not years, of delay.

The Harper government heeded those calls and streamlined the process, but instead of garnering praise or even getting by with apathy, Ottawa was met with uproar and threats.

...

Mr. Harper’s approach to the First Nations file has not been transformative, but instead incremental — by making small changes within the boundaries of reality, the Prime Minister is chipping away at what many view as a wholly intractable situation.

...

“Sweeping things like [Paul Martin’s] Kelowna Accord don’t really solve problems,”

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So you acknowledge we have a situation where the people demanding money seem to be, at best, hypocritical if not corrupt yet you expect governments to give even more money with no questions asked? I don't follow your logic.

No I don't expect that.

Look, don't even try to summarize my arguments because I'm about as far to the middle on this one as you can go. I don't buy into these protests at face value - I'm trying just to understand. So far, my position is that I think the time has come to redesign a process for dialogue and representation, while at the same time continuing to take care of emergencies that continue to befall our FN.

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Pretty hard when it is on the radio, and lets not forget the millions from debeers(SP). Open the books and let see where the money goes. And lets not forget that alot of reserves do quite well and this is not a wide spread thing. And now that harper is going to meets the chiefs on the 11th, it is time for her to end this sham.

Will this help?

Ezra Levant reveals some shocking facts about Chief Theresa Spence and Attawapiskat that other media outlets won't talk about.

http://en.video.cano...t/2070970265001

Edited by betsy
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So far, my position is that I think the time has come to redesign a process for dialogue and representation, while at the same time continuing to take care of emergencies that continue to befall our FN.
No process can fix a system where one of the parties is acting in bad faith. When it comes to native issues I think that many natives have constructed a fantasyland which makes it impossible for them to work constructively with governments to solve immediate problems. Edited by TimG
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How do you feel about CanWest, then, which reported on television that Spence and her spouse/boyfriend/partner/whatever-he-is together earned a six digit number of dollars?

It is unhelpful, but at least, according to what you write, technically correct. We already know Spence makes just under 70g, undoubtably her partner makes at least 30g, as the average CGA in Ontario made over 100g in 2010. The comment that they together earn 6 figures without any context is designed to incite, not inform people. Does anyone think that if Spence made nothing instead of 70g that the infusion of 70g would fix the housing problem? Any evidence that the partner who has a good record of financial management in Attiwapiskat (a decade ago) and elsewhere is either involved in corruption or is over-paid (It was the ministry that demanded a co-manager, his company's bid was the most competitive of the 5 bids, Spence was not the chief at the time, nor is their any evidence brought forth of a conflict of interest). Poisoning the well only ensures that a reasonable solution can not be met.

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More list of facts from Sun News

http://www.sunnewsne...103-152649.html

"Facts" is a term used pretty loosely here. For instance they purposefully used a year when there was an election so that they could inflate the number of politicians. I could similarly use 2006 and ask why does Canada have 2 Prime Ministers, 2 Governments, and many more MPs then we are supposed to have. Outrage!! I say purposefully because they know they know what they are doing. I actually had a short discussion with Ezra about it around a year ago, and yet it continues. And using Sun Media's own numbers the average councillor salary would be less then 16g for those positions Sun Media deems "full-time." The number of councillors may be too high (although a city council doesn't look after things like education, so a straight up comparison is not perfect), but then why lie and exaggerate the real number? Because this is not about informing, but instead about demonizing and inflaming.

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The comment that they together earn 6 figures without any context is designed to incite, not inform people..

What makes you determine there was no context? Do you really believe the reporter was in a white chamber and said only ten words: "Spence and her partner together earned [x] hundred thousand dollars"? It's pertinent information when a key part of the story is money and conditions on a reserve affected by it.

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What makes you determine there was no context?

I didn't say that there was no context. I was simply responding to what you said that Canwest claimed. You provided no link and you provided no context. Maybe Canwest did provide the context to ensure that their audience was informed. If that is the case then you opted not to provide the context to ensure that this audience was informed.

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