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Gross violation of privacy of people who have handgun permits


betsy

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Nice Story Bro!

http://www.nytimes.c...h_20130106&_r=0

You still hating on Science?

And where is the proof that removing guns without fixing the underlying issues does anything but change the tools rather than violence. There will always be violence unless we fix the root cause of violence rather then the method use to commit the violence.

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And where is the proof that removing guns without fixing the underlying issues does anything but change the tools rather than violence. There will always be violence unless we fix the root cause of violence rather then the method use to commit the violence.

It takes a lot of money and programs to fix social violence. Here I thought we were talking about the "Never raise taxes" United states. I don't want to ever read you speaking against programs in the future if you actually think that is the solution. Something inside of me does not believe you, you just want those who do support those programs and know they are a way to fix this problem to focus on that because it is easier to win that argument.

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"good guys with guns" is a lovely slogan that hardens back to the wild west and pioneering spirit, however, if you care to look at the issue objectively, it is clear that easy access to guns creates more gun violence.

I am not arguing that it creates more gun violence... no guns=no gun violence, this is not even up for debate my question is does removing guns from society decrease violence overall or does it shift it over to other means of committing the violence.

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I am not arguing that it creates more gun violence... no guns=no gun violence, this is not even up for debate my question is does removing guns from society decrease violence overall or does it shift it over to other means of committing the violence.

Other means don't kill as many people.

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It takes a lot of money and programs to fix social violence.

And removing guns from the equation does nothing more then switch the tools of violence.

Here I thought we were talking about the "Never raise taxes" United states.

If nations were fiscally responsible then taxes don't need to go up, but even if it costs money that people are unwilling to pay what does removing guns do for the overall problem?

I don't want to ever read you speaking against programs in the future if you actually think that is the solution.

This forum has a nice ignore feature, I will express my opinions and you are free to ignore them if you please but unlike you I have a complex set of opinions that are taken from different sources and political beliefs rather than just having all of my political beliefs come from one political ideology.

Something inside of me does not believe you,

Are you a psychic now?

you just want those who do support those programs and know they are a way to fix this problem to focus on that because it is easier to win that argument.

No I don't, I want people to focus on those programs because that is the way to solve the problem, remove guns and people will find other ways to kill each other as violence did not mysteriously appear with the invention of gunpowder and the firearm, it has been with us as a race since the beginning of humanity.

I dont support positions that promise no result and are only a waste of time and resources as gun control is when it relates to violence, if we focus on removing guns without doing anything with regard to the underlying causes problem persists, if we focus on the underlying causes without implementing any gun control measures we can see change but most likely not fast enough and like most things the right answer is in the middle where a combination of combating the root causes as well as stricter gun control will create the best solution.

To me it seems you are gung-ho for gun control wether it works to solve the underlying problem or not, you seem to be the person who doesn't like guns and thinks no one should have them just because you don't like them rather then because it would solve anything.

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Other means don't kill as many people.

Google how to make a molotov cocktail, six of those weapons and a walkthrough Sandy Hook a few days before the attack would have likely led to more deaths. Think about the teachers who managed to hide their students from the gunmen, now imagine if he instead of shooting the teachers tossed a molotov cocktail in the classroom teacher dies right along with his/her students.

If the gunmen in the Columbine shooting had succeeded with their bombs the 13 dead and 21 wounded would have most likely been astronomically higher considering the number of bombs they had placed in the cafeteria as well as the car bomb they had prepared for the first responders.

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Google how to make a molotov cocktail, six of those weapons and a walkthrough Sandy Hook a few days before the attack would have likely led to more deaths. Think about the teachers who managed to hide their students from the gunmen, now imagine if he instead of shooting the teachers tossed a molotov cocktail in the classroom teacher dies right along with his/her students.

Just so you know in the States while guns are legal it is actually illegal to make a Molotov cocktail. I agree though things that can cause Harm to a great number of people should probably be heavily regulated by government and in some cases made illegal. That was what you were saying about Molotov cocktails right/

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Great so I am right.

How did you get being right from that?

You just want the lefties to argue for something you can win.

Because it works and because its right... you seem to argue simply because you dislike guns rather than because you think removing guns from the equation would do much in the way of removing violence.

More programs against violence and gangs.

More programs eliminating gangs by destroying their manpower source, give kids another option, a bright future, something to fight for and you defeat the gangs eliminate guns and you still have the gangs, you still have the violence, and you still have the manpower source.

Well know what America doesn't want that solution so what is the next one?

I don't think its Americans not wanting that solution, I think its Americans being to polarized on this subject to be able to clearly see the solution. At some point more and more people will support this and less will support the two extremes which means that we will see the underlying issues being dealt with at the same time removing automatic weapons from civilian hands.

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More programs eliminating gangs by destroying their manpower source, give kids another option, a bright future, something to fight for and you defeat the gangs eliminate guns and you still have the gangs, you still have the violence, and you still have the manpower source.

I'll agree with you that's the real solution. It aint going to happen.

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Just so you know in the States while guns are legal it is actually illegal to make a Molotov cocktail.

If you are going to go on a shooting spree I don't think that will bother you too much besides it is easy to make, remove the guns and a substitute is found promptly.

I agree though things that can cause Harm to a great number of people should probably be heavily regulated by government and in some cases made illegal. That was what you were saying about Molotov cocktails right/

No, I am not saying that mainly because regulating molotov cocktails is in my view virtually impossible simply because the materials needed are of everyday use and it will not raise any suspicion if I go and buy them unless I make it my mission to inform everyone as to what I am doing. My point is that banning guns without dealing with the underlying causes means that we will see a rise in violence using weapons that are much harder to control since many mass casualty weapons could be made from everyday materials that raise no suspicion at all.

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I'll agree with you that's the real solution. It aint going to happen.

Why not? I believe the US has reached the tipping point, they cannot sustain many more tragedies such as the recent shootings without doing something and I firmly believe that Americans are intelligent as a nation and can find the solution when they start ignoring both extremes.

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Reports are now coming in about the Journal's release of the gun permit holders. Prisoners are now threatening guards with their own addresses. So now innocent wives, children and husbands are having to deal with the real threat of some convict gang member getting his buddies to track down names on this map. It's said that about 8000 retired and active law enforcement personnel live in Rockland County. One may think that it's right to print these names and addresses, but surely you don't support the threat against all these people working at thankless jobs keeping the public safe.
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Just put yourselves in the shoes of all these innocent people who had done nothing wrong at all! How does it feel to have an "X" pinned to your chest, or painted on the door of your house - to make you and your family an easy target?

Edited by betsy
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I believe the US has reached the tipping point, they cannot sustain many more tragedies such as the recent shootings without doing something and I firmly believe that Americans are intelligent as a nation and can find the solution when they start ignoring both extremes.

Have you checked out this season's Xmas firearms sales, especially of battlefield weapons? They were extremely 'good' apparently.

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Have you checked out this season's Xmas firearms sales, especially of battlefield weapons? They were extremely 'good' apparently.

I doubt that the US as a nation stocked up on them, there will always be a vocal minority that want weapons that they shouldn't have but when push comes to shove they don't matter because the majority of people want change and change will come in one form or another soon.

There are three sides to this when the moderates start abandoning the extremes and try to find a solution in the middle progress will be made.

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Just put yourselves in the shoes of all these innocent people who had done nothing wrong at all! How does it feel to have an "X" pinned to your chest, or painted on the door of your house - to make you and your family an easy target?

laugh.png

They can quit.

They were also just as easy a target 2 months ago.

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They could but a FOI request can still be done.

Another paper in the south just did the same thing

And that is just as wrong as the initial paper's actions. This puts people in danger and many people are fine with this simply because they don't like gun owners but if it were something else that put them on a similar list they would be pretty unhappy...

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