betsy Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) So you demand the govt offer alternatives that you can't come up with? Why are we REQUIRED to come up with alternatives? I am respondng to his statement: I hear people demanding to throw out any process to achieve goals of diversity, not offering much in the way of alternative solutions. Which sounds similar to his previous statement in another topic: Pointless complaining without any suggestion of how to make things better is utterly pointless, and does not lead to productive discussion in my opinion. Why can't we voice out our complaint even if we cannot offer any suggestions at all? Doesn't complaining in itself gets the attention of those "movers and shakers?" Edited January 4, 2013 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Why are we REQUIRED to come up with alternatives? You're not. Nobody is. Might be a good idea tho - so if you have some, write your MP. Or just tell us here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) You're not. Nobody is. Might be a good idea tho - so if you have some, write your MP. Or just tell us here. I was not responding to you! I was responding to him! He seems to be making it a requirement! That if you cannot give any suggestions, then you oughta zip it and quit complaining! Edited January 4, 2013 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I was not responding to you! I was responding to him! He seems to be making it a requirement! That if you cannot give any suggestions, then you oughta zip it and quit complaining! First off, anyone can reply to your posts regardless of whom your post is responding to. It's called an Internet forum. These aren't one on one conversations. Secondly, you're just ranting. Don't you think discussing ideas would be a better way to go? Which is better: "A" is a problem for such and such reasons. We should do "B" because it would improve things, and here is how...... or "A" sucks. The government should do something about it. It's destroying our children and ruining the world. Im not going to provide alternatives to "A". It just sucks and is stupid and anyone who believes "A" is the right thing to do should just go back and read why "A" sucks so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 This is the second time you said that. Why are we required to offer an alternative solution? That's the government's job, isn't it? You're the one saying that their solution isn't good enough. Do you have any ideas for something to replace it ? I'd support that if it was better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I don't agree with that, personally. But it also depends on what the qualifications being discussed are. It could be height, it could be academics... I think I'm still waiting for details on that question. Details are illusive. Apparently, you must pass an Ontario police screening test even before you can apply. Completes Stage 1 of the OACP testing. This includes passing: the Physical Readiness Evaluation for Police (PREP), the Police Analytical Thinking Inventory (PATI), the Written Communications Test. Once these initial tests have been passed, the candidate will move onto Stage 2 of the OACP test. This includes passing: a vision test, a hearing test, a video simulation Behavioural Personnel Assessment Device (BPAD). If all components of the OACP testing above have been successfully passed, the individual will receive the Ontario Chiefs of Police (OACP) Certificate of Results. Now here's the thing, according to the Toronto police web site the test results have no numeric value. It is pass/fail. To start off, this sounds awfully odd, since it allows people who barely scrap through to be considered equally with those who swept all tests with outstanding results. Of course, if most of the former are females and most of the latter males, well, so much the better for 'equalizing hiring chances'. But never mind that. We know there are points required to get an interview. All the TPS web site says is that after you pass the test you can apply on line. Then it deals with the following question: Q: After I submit my application, how long will it take to get an interview? A: Only those applicants assessed best able to meet the organizational needs of the service will be selected for an interview. So what exactly does that mean? My understanding from other sources is that you get points for a variety of things, such as having a college diploma in policing, experience in law or security work, legal training, emergency first aid training/experience, second language skills, other education, ie, university degree in psychology, lifeguard training certificate, and a variety of volunteer work, esp work which has brought you in contact with the poor, elderly, victims of crime, and disabled etc. etc. You get a certain number of points for what you offer. The question is, why do you need more points to get an interview if you're a white male than if you're a black male or woman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) First off, anyone can reply to your posts regardless of whom your post is responding to. It's called an Internet forum. These aren't one on one conversations. Where did I say that he couldn't reply to me??? <...and bangs head on wall....but still LOL> Edited January 5, 2013 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 You're the one saying that their solution isn't good enough. Do you have any ideas for something to replace it ? I'd support that if it was better. We don't have to give a solution to replace it! Complaining has its positives too - especially when it comes to politics! The squeaky wheel gets the grease! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 We can all agree that things are looking bad if you're a white male. Not like the good old days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 We don't have to give a solution to replace it! Complaining has its positives too - especially when it comes to politics! The squeaky wheel gets the grease! The systemic discrimination crowd can outsqueak you any day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 The systemic discrimination crowd can outsqueak you any day of the week. So you stop speaking? Is that the answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatJob! Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) Well, keeping in mind that you're evaluating people I agree with you to a point. There should be a minimum requirement, but do you give preference to taller males than shorter females ? what preference? no preference... all we need to know is that a cadidate has the best aptitudes for the job... if we're pitting a male that's 6'2 215 pounds, in peak physical condition with great cardio vs a 5'1 female that can't even bench 60 pounds; guess who is more likely to be a valuable member of the force? also... in various studies conducted in the US, they found that female officers discharged their firearms causing death at a much higher rate than male officers... why? they don't have a choice in confrontations... they have to pull the trigger ... they cannot attempt to defuse a situation physically.. because they can't... how's that for affirmative action costing actual lives? and the SPVM and VPD have a different physical test for women... which is predicatbly less intense... I suspect this is also the case for most police forces... no amount of affirmative action and set aside nonsense will make women strength equal to men's... yet women seem to comprise the lionshare of new hirees... the solution? TREAT EVERY CANDIDATE AS AN INDIVIDUAL: not the member of a race/gender/sexual orientation... no on cares... no one SHOULD care... Edited January 6, 2013 by GreatJob! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 what preference? no preference... all we need to know is that a cadidate has the best aptitudes for the job... if we're pitting a male that's 6'2 215 pounds, in peak physical condition with great cardio vs a 5'1 female that can't even bench 60 pounds; guess who is more likely to be a valuable member of the force? It seems like you're asking the same question I was. also... in various studies conducted in the US, they found that female officers discharged their firearms causing death at a much higher rate than male officers... why? they don't have a choice in confrontations... they have to pull the trigger ... they cannot attempt to defuse a situation physically.. because they can't... how's that for affirmative action costing actual lives? You're actually behind in providing cites for your facts at this point. So rather than put out more baseless information why not catch up ? the solution? TREAT EVERY CANDIDATE AS AN INDIVIDUAL: not the member of a race/gender/sexual orientation... no on cares... no one SHOULD care... We could measure sensitivity and emotional quotient, test people for understanding of various cultural practices if you prefer. That's a metric too. Anyway, I have been more than patient with you - it's been over a week since I asked for my cite and you're just not playing ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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