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Then, perhaps what you mean to say is that some people will keep certain facts hidden of hazy so the appropriate context is never widely or fully understood, allowing them to freely use certain words that require context in the manner that benefits them or their preferred cause. Quebec sovereigntists have done that with the word "soveregnty" and "nation".

So you do know a forked tongue when you see one.

If what you mean to say is that Mulroney deliberately spoke with one too, who am I to argue?

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People of all stripes are fed up ith the natives, including natives, the ones living in squalor because of thier chief and councils. There is no way in hell we sholud have the poverty we do on reserves with all the billions poured in. I can't for the life of me understand people like jacee, that for some reason keep ignoring that fact. The chiefs have learnt well from the white man on stealing money from the taxpayer.

Very simple, some people don't pay taxes; they live on the largesse of other taxpayers. Maybe welfare. Maybe parents.
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Clearly, you repeatedly generalized unsubstantiated negative statements to the entire population of Indigenous people.

Would you reword any of this if you were writing it now?

Simply not true.

Simply not true.

Also not true.

You don't seem to feel the need to substantiate anything you are saying. The dept of Indians affairs exists, eats billions. Fact.

My arguments are that our governments should stop wasting our money on lawyers and negotiators paid billions to prevent any real progress toward autonomy for First Nations.

There is and always will be a very significant difference between Indigenous Peoples of Canada and all of the rest of us: We never held Aboriginal Rights on the land.

Indigenous Peoples will always be entitled to shares of the revenues from their respective traditional territories. That's not 'us' (taxpayers) paying them: It's all of the corporate users of the land paying them and paying us.

There is a difference because we have institutionalized a difference. That is the whole problem. If we had treated them like every other minority group in Canada, in other words like fully-functional human beings and not semi-functional children who need handouts, things would be a lot different.

The confusion arises in the minds of some Canadians only because our government acts as their 'trustee' (fiduciary), collecting their revenues and distributing it to them for services.

Just because their money goes through our government accounts does not make it our money.

And it certainly is not our tax money.

Does your property manager 'own' the money collected from your property assets?

Mine sure as hell doesn't! :lol:

This is relevant how?

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Very simple, some people don't pay taxes; they live on the largesse of other taxpayers. Maybe welfare. Maybe parents.

Some businesses rape money from poor people who work day in and day out for no gains in 200% markup on goods so that people sitting at desk jobs day in and day out pushing paper get to live better than the people buying the products they need to survive. Those same companies privatize and monopolize on resources that those poor people mutually have ownership in as citizens, meanwhile the dick and janes that supress the people pay for militants to beat up anyone who steps out of line.

Some people pay way more taxes just based on how little they get paid for their hard work with little or no economic incentives but its the life they have.

Why don't you just shut up about class warfare in a thread about first nations. All it amounts to is utter ignorance of the fact you live on native land taken from the natives so you get those fat paychecks.

None the less, whining really doesn't belong here. That person getting the tax break deserves the money just for putting up with people like you, ungrateful, and non recognizing of the non monetary contributions people add to society. The world isn't about money it is about people hopefully you'll clue in.

Either give the people training and employment or shut up about the fact they don't have a job with a fair wage.

You offer nothing constructive by whining about the fact you need to pay for the people you are raping for your money.

Edited by shortlived
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Some businesses rape money from poor people who work day in and day out for no gains in 200% markup on goods so that people sitting at desk jobs day in and day out pushing paper get to live better than the people buying the products they need to survive. Those same companies privatize and monopolize on resources that those poor people mutually have ownership in as citizens, meanwhile the dick and janes that supress the people pay for militants to beat up anyone who steps out of line.

The difference which I'm sure you've blocked out, is that the people working for those companies have the choice to work elsewhere. We don't have the choice to not pay for the hangers-on, whether corporate or otherwise. The welfare state is far more costly than corporate hand-outs however. Medicare alone eats nearly half our money on its own. The wealthiest folks have no need for that service, they quite prefer to use private care.

Some people pay way more taxes just based on how little they get paid for their hard work with little or no economic incentives but its the life they have.

Yes those would be the people in the highest tax bracket.

Why don't you just shut up about class warfare in a thread about first nations. All it amounts to is utter ignorance of the fact you live on native land taken from the natives so you get those fat paychecks.

None the less, whining really doesn't belong here. That person getting the tax break deserves the money just for putting up with people like you, ungrateful, and non recognizing of the non monetary contributions people add to society. The world isn't about money it is about people hopefully you'll clue in.

If only the native groups believed that. But their plan is always the same - give us more cash. No to them it is certainly all about money.

Edited by hitops
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The difference which I'm sure you've blocked out, is that the people working for those companies have the choice to work elsewhere. We don't have the choice to not pay for the hangers-on, whether corporate or otherwise. The welfare state is far more costly than corporate hand-outs however. Medicare alone eats nearly half our money on its own. The wealthiest folks have no need for that service, they quite prefer to use private care.

Yes those would be the people in the highest tax bracket.

If only the native groups believed that. But their plan is always the same - give us more cash. No to them it is certainly all about money.

You have the choice not to pay your taxes.

I would agree the welfare state is poorly managed, bloated and not geared toward productivity.

At the same time what do you expect people deemed seriously disabled and unable to carry out daily living tasks let alone work in a regular job.

Youthenizing the retards isn't a solution most modern democracies would advocate, and most g7 countries probably wouldn't let their vegetables die on the side of the road either.

You arn't offering a solution to the problem.

I am someone who advocates for medicare reform, this includes providing health care through self funding national insurance program, and removed completely from the general revenue fund. It is a provincial issue though so the provinces would have to agree to take middle income people and the wealthy off of regular medicare. Just not providing health care is a community health risk though, and poor people who could have been employable will become unemployable due to illness.

Its not all straight edge but providing basic health care dental and eye care to people in employment training for in demand jobs apprentice ships and the like is something that is beneficial.

We do need to crack down on people that have been immobilized and disabled on a corruptly and inefficient system though however we must recognize that we must change our analysis of the seriously disabled if merited, or accept that the people deemed medically incapable should be provided for by society because the alternative is really beneath a society that is supposedly welahty. The morality and ethics are not what a good society should hold in not caring for those who cannot care for themselves. If that was the case, I say we kill the greedy and selfish people first.

Tax reform, health reform, and welfare reform, along side justice reform, and electoral reform are all major policy prongs I support.

Edited by shortlived
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You have the choice not to pay your taxes.

Interesting......what was your address and phone number again? I think the CRA would be interested in investigating your choices.

I would agree the welfare state is poorly managed, bloated and not geared toward productivity.

At the same time what do you expect people deemed seriously disabled and unable to carry out daily living tasks let alone work in a regular job.

Youthenizing the retards isn't a solution most modern democracies would advocate, and most g7 countries probably wouldn't let their vegetables die on the side of the road either.

You arn't offering a solution to the problem.

I am someone who advocates for medicare reform, this includes providing health care through self funding national insurance program, and removed completely from the general revenue fund. It is a provincial issue though so the provinces would have to agree to take middle income people and the wealthy off of regular medicare. Just not providing health care is a community health risk though, and poor people who could have been employable will become unemployable due to illness.

Its not all straight edge but providing basic health care dental and eye care to people in employment training for in demand jobs apprentice ships and the like is something that is beneficial.

We do need to crack down on people that have been immobilized and disabled on a corruptly and inefficient system though however we must recognize that we must change our analysis of the seriously disabled if merited, or accept that the people deemed medically incapable should be provided for by society because the alternative is really beneath a society that is supposedly welahty. The morality and ethics are not what a good society should hold in not caring for those who cannot care for themselves. If that was the case, I say we kill the greedy and selfish people first.

Tax reform, health reform, and welfare reform, along side justice reform, and electoral reform are all major policy prongs I support.

We're not talking about people who are disabled. We are talking an entire group that thinks it's ok to take tax money from everyone else, billions every year, for no other reason than their ethnicity.

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We're not talking about people who are disabled. We are talking an entire group that thinks it's ok to take tax money from everyone else, billions every year, for no other reason than their ethnicity.

The problem in my opinion is that the current system was either created as OR evolved into this welfare system which is supported by both the natives and the federal government. The natives are so hell bent on keeping the treaties as it gives them items that the treaties offer however in return they are forced to live in godforsaken lands where econimic prosperity is nearly impossible. For most the options are unemployment and possibly substance abuse but they get their piece of flesh from the white man! Add to the mix, the natives are not permitted to own their house when living on the reserve. So there is zero sense of ownership and pride in owning something which further leads to the willingness to be idle.

I believe the system of treaties has failed these people but of course anytime you bring up removing the treaties its like asking for their first born. They hold on to these things feeling that letting these go would be like giving into the white man. The reality is that keeping them is suppressing them. As a forward way of thinking, I would suggest they negotiate something that will actually benefit the natives using the treaties as leverage. Something that will bring them into the 21st century by creating a different base which makes natives motivated work. The removal of treaties would have to be a phase out thing where they would eliminate treaties in 'x' amount of years.

The current system is getting both sides no where fast and the thought that shelling out more money for the cheifs to handle for these people is even worse.

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It's the classic welfare trap with the added element of racial identity. Natives get all bent out of shape that assimilation is racism, but look at what they want, the same material lifestyle other Canadians have. That's a form of assimilation already. If they want to live collectively, but on their own dime, that's entirely up to them. Subsidizing remote uneconomic settlements just makes no sense.

Unfortunatley, natives have been sold a "dream castle". The idea that they are sparate nations who can extract huge bounty from Canada for use of their lands. They think they can do whatever they want, living large on the rent they collect from Canada. At some point Canadians are going to get fed up with this and just tell them to shove it.

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As a forward way of thinking, I would suggest they negotiate something that will actually benefit the natives using the treaties as leverage. Something that will bring them into the 21st century by creating a different base ...

Good idea.

Now get the government to negotiate in good faith.

That's the always-missing element.

----

On a more general note, the ignorant stereotypes perpetrated by some posters here are stupid and tiresome.

Yes there's a higher unemployment rate among Aboriginal people BUT it's the difference between 5% and 13%.

Yes those who work on reserve don't pay taxes, but most work off reserve and do pay taxes.

Like the rest of us, the vast majority of Aboriginal people are employed and pay taxes.

Aboriginal youth are closing the gaps, more numerous, more educated and better employed.

This thread has run its course, and degenerated into a dumping ground for ignorance.

Edited by jacee
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Yes there's a higher unemployment rate among Aboriginal people BUT it's the difference between 5% and 13%.

Yes those who work on reserve don't pay taxes, but most work off reserve and do pay taxes.

Like the rest of us, the vast majority of Aboriginal people are employed and pay taxes..

Jacee... The issue isn't aboriginals its the reserve system. Both sides are to blame because the natives want it and the government gives it.

Your unemployment stats may be correct for off-reserve natives but its double that for on reserve.

http://www.afn.ca/uploads/files/factsheets/quality_of_life_final_fe.pdf

Add to the fact all the other shit things that happens to these people on the reserve.

You are right...natives off the reserve are becoming more educated and better off which is just proof positive that the reserves are failing these people.

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Good idea.

Now get the government to negotiate in good faith.

That's the always-missing element.

----

On a more general note, the ignorant stereotypes perpetrated by some posters here are stupid and tiresome.

Such as yours, for example.

Yes there's a higher unemployment rate among Aboriginal people BUT it's the difference between 5% and 13%.

Yes those who work on reserve don't pay taxes, but most work off reserve and do pay taxes.

Like the rest of us, the vast majority of Aboriginal people are employed and pay taxes.

Aboriginal youth are closing the gaps, more numerous, more educated and better employed.

This thread has run its course, and degenerated into a dumping ground for ignorance.

The difference between 5% and 13% is massive when you're talking employment. 5% is basically almost full employment, and 10% was considered a national crisis when they were at that level in the US. I doubt there are any other ethnic groups in any other nation in the developed world that has that degree of a gap.

You can't tell the difference between wanting to be rid of arrangement which are nothing but stones around aboriginal peoples necks, and outright racism. That's because you wear the 'anything-is-racism' glasses, for whatever reason.

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Jacee... The issue isn't aboriginals its the reserve system. Both sides are to blame because the natives want it and the government gives it.

Your unemployment stats may be correct for off-reserve natives but its double that for on reserve.

http://www.afn.ca/uploads/files/factsheets/quality_of_life_final_fe.pdf

Add to the fact all the other shit things that happens to these people on the reserve.

You are right...natives off the reserve are becoming more educated and better off which is just proof positive that the reserves are failing these people.

Reserves are communities where people live and many are not remote, and if they are, it isn't going to change. It's their home.

Many people who live on reserves work off reserve.

And repetitive blathering of many stupid stereotypes is not discussion but ignorance.

Stuff it.

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Reserves are communities where people live and many are not remote, and if they are, it isn't going to change. It's their home.

Many people who live on reserves work off reserve.

And repetitive blathering of many stupid stereotypes is not discussion but ignorance.

Stuff it.

I have no problem with them wanting to live in their home. I have a huge problem with them wanting me to pay for it. You have yet to respond to the reality of the dept of Indian affairs and the billions it takes from Canadians and gives to people based on nothing but race.

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I have no problem with them wanting to live in their home. I have a huge problem with them wanting me to pay for it.

You have yet to respond to the reality of the dept of Indian affairs and the billions it takes from Canadians and gives to people based on nothing but race.

If you keep repeating this ignorance ad nauseam, it doesn't become true.

I'm well aware that white supremacists systematically infest every discussion of Aboriginal issues in Canada. That's why comments are closed on every such article in every major publication.

And it's why this thread should now be closed.

And maybe a bit of perspective is in order ...

First Nations audit of Federal Government reveals billions in mismanaged funds

Even worse,the audit continued,many top paid politicians are known to show up for work only half the time, yet there is no system in place to correct for this type of wasteful spending.

The audit also revealed a questionable practice of distributing funds for housing, and highlighted many examples of political party leaders receiving big mansions while many across the country live in sub-par housing,or condemned homes,and many live on the streets with no housing at all.

Perspective ... or at least a smidgen of humour ... and truth.

Edited by jacee
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Reserves are communities where people live and many are not remote, and if they are, it isn't going to change. It's their home.

Many people who live on reserves work off reserve.

And repetitive blathering of many stupid stereotypes is not discussion but ignorance.

Stuff it.

Stuff it? That's your professional response? I see your head is back in the sand!

You like to romantacize or flat out lie about the situation on the reserves which is why I used facts and figures from the AFN. They seem to get it that the reserve system is broken. Why don't you?

Yes...many people that live on reserve find work off reserve. They are called the 75% employed. If you don't want to face facts about the 25% then so be it but don't give me this crap about me spewing stereotypes when it's clearly you ignoring facts. Have fun with that!

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If you keep repeating this ignorance ad nauseam, it doesn't become true.

I'm well aware that white supremacists systematically infest every discussion of Aboriginal issues in Canada. That's why comments are closed on every such article in every major publication.

And it's why this thread should now be closed.

And maybe a bit of perspective is in order ...

First Nations audit of Federal Government reveals billions in mismanaged funds

Even worse,the audit continued,many top paid politicians are known to show up for work only half the time, yet there is no system in place to correct for this type of wasteful spending.

The audit also revealed a questionable practice of distributing funds for housing, and highlighted many examples of political party leaders receiving big mansions while many across the country live in sub-par housing,or condemned homes,and many live on the streets with no housing at all.

Perspective ... or at least a smidgen of humour ... and truth.

Is that supposed to be a joke? It doesn't even name the auditing firm. The auditors claimed that the first nations audit was poor spending. LOL....that audit was cheap and extremely worth it - basically showed us there is literally zero accountability or even knowledge of how money is managed. The conclusion of this 'article' is actually that all governments, ever, has always mismanaged money terribly. That is a conclusion of a high school student not a serious auditor.

But honestly I can't tell if that website is satire or what.

Anyway I repeat my point because you never answer it. We spend billions every year, the budget of the dept indian affairs. I supposed this fact just doesn't exist in your world.

Edited by hitops
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You like to romantacize or flat out lie about the situation on the reserves which is why I used facts and figures from the AFN.

But, she didn't really romanticise; in that post, anyway. There really are reserves that are economically viable; profitable, even. People who live on reserves really do work off-reserve.

Of course, there are reserves where neither is the case; they are destitute, pathetic places. But, their existence doesn't mean the reality of the aforementioned can simply be ignored in order to deem the reservation of land for First Nations a total failure.

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In BC, an employable adult can get welfare 2 years out of 5. So if a group of second nations non-Indigenous peoples decided to squat in the bush somewhere and collect welfare, they could only do it for 2 years. And they would get no free housing built for them, nothing but meager welfare checks - if that. Same deal for First Nations Indigenous Peoples.

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