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So the alternative then would be no pictures allowed in the school since in order to have them hung we'd have to pay a contractor a large sum of money to do that simple task.

the alternative would wait until there are a number of repairs/alterations to be done and have them done all at once, make sure there is a full days work to make it economical...when my clients call me for 5 minutes work and it takes 2 hours of my day they get billed for 2 hours not 5 minutes, if a contractor has 4 calls per 8hr day like that do expect them to bill out for only 20minutes for the entire day? they'll be bankrupt...
BTW are you really saying that inorder to hang a picture you should tear the wall down first to make sure there are no wires behind there?
there you go see you didn't understand, there are portable sensors to detect hidden electrical wires in walls, pipes as well...opening up the wall is what you'll be doing if you don't check first...I've had very intelligent people make really dumb errors, I'm not saying they're stupid just that we each have our own expertise, don't assume because you may be a genius and expert at your own work that you know everything about other peoples work...
What if you used one of these things? http://www.artbyceda...hangingart5.jpg
sure but it's no guarantee, wires should be 1.5" inches from the stud surface but shit happens sometimes they're not, and many people use too long a screw or nail hitting the wires, and drains can run right under the drywall 1/2" ...
Shouldn't electricians run wires along studs so you don't effect the wiring by the simple task of hanging a picture?
1.5" from stud surface-but if someone decides to use a 2-3" nail or screw then you have a problem Edited by wyly
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But even if you do have to hire a contractor the principal should have the discretion to call a contractor that charges a reasonable rate and not a Board appointed Union that can charge whatever they want because they have a monopoly on servicing the schools in Toronto.

what expertise does the principal have in choosing contractors? he's a teacher not a general contractor...working as a general contractor I've gone through a number of sub-contractors, they are not all equal some of them are idiots, some are crooks, some are idiots/crooks ...my experience saves my clients (and myself) money, I know who does good work and gives a fair price, a principal using the yellow pages is gambling, flipping a coin and hoping for the best...
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Yadayada... Holmes on homes has had many choice words for your type.. The fact that you have needed sub-consider already means you can't control your own "product".. My entire family is in trades from carpentry right down to full-on customer homes and entire estates... When you don't care about quality or schedule....... Hire a sub-con. Can you tell me what the purpose of "schleutter" is in trade terms? Without googling?

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The fact that you have needed sub-consider already means you can't control your own "product".. My entire family is in trades from carpentry right down to full-on customer homes and entire estates... When you don't care about quality or schedule....... Hire a sub-con. Can you tell me what the purpose of "schleutter" is in trade terms? Without googling?

You know , sometimes you post enought to convince some that you are full of BS.

This is one of those posts of yours that screams out ignorance on your part.

And why?

Your family isnt in the trades , but if they are, I am assured you are the lot boy that trades throw their coffee cups at to put in the garbage, but youve pretty much shown you dont have a clue ergo not in trades.

One whos family is in the trades (LOL!) would know that subs are not only necessary but a vital part of construction. No man, no company can do it all. COnstruction is one industry that relies, and heavily relies upon to get jobs done.That requires sub trades.

Lets not forget that the insurance your family carries (which lets be honest I doubt they have) has terms -conditions-covenants that dictates they cannot do some jobs unless they want to void the liability they operate under.

So no, the premise that subs are inferior(when in fact they are generally superior due to specialization) is a misnomer propulgated by ignorant people who havent the slightest f'in clue what they are talking about.

And if your dad is in the trades? My bet is he is mouthing Dean Wermers bon mot to Flounder.

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hanging a picture is no big deal?...how much do you think it would cost to tear open a wall and rerun electrical wires when a nail or screw pierces an electrical wire, does your teacher or janitor just happen to have an electrical sensor in their back pocket?...or when that nail/screw used for hanging picture punctures a water line or drain who pays for the resulting water damage?...before you say that never happens I can assure you it does and often, and I've had the pleasure of repairing and charging for both...that little screw or nail for a picture can result in thousands of dollars of damage, when a janitor or teacher does it the school pays for it, when a contractor makes the error they're responsible for the repairs...

so when mrs wyly asked me to hang a shelf in her office I turned her down and told her to call contractor in charge, I'm not risking putting a screw into a wall of a public building that could potentially disrupt or even shut down a multi-multi-million dollar medical facility...

We're talking about school buildings right?

Does the teacher happen to have a hammer drill and concrete anchors in their desk to do this work? What happens when the concrete bit breaks and the teacher puts out an eye, do they get workers comp for doing that or will they be denied because drilling into concrete is not in their job description?

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You know , sometimes you post enought to convince some that you are full of BS.

This is one of those posts of yours that screams out ignorance on your part.

And why?

Your family isnt in the trades , but if they are, I am assured you are the lot boy that trades throw their coffee cups at to put in the garbage, but youve pretty much shown you dont have a clue ergo not in trades.

One whos family is in the trades (LOL!) would know that subs are not only necessary but a vital part of construction. No man, no company can do it all. COnstruction is one industry that relies, and heavily relies upon to get jobs done.That requires sub trades.

Lets not forget that the insurance your family carries (which lets be honest I doubt they have) has terms -conditions-covenants that dictates they cannot do some jobs unless they want to void the liability they operate under.

So no, the premise that subs are inferior(when in fact they are generally superior due to specialization) is a misnomer propulgated by ignorant people who havent the slightest f'in clue what they are talking about.

And if your dad is in the trades? My bet is he is mouthing Dean Wermers bon mot to Flounder.

gas-fitters, no one does this without a license and all work is inspected huge potential to kill a lot of people... commercial/industrial -licensed electrical sub contractors are required..same as plumbers without a license you're not getting it done...electrical-residential no reputable building contractor is going to hire non licensed electrical contractors it just doesn't happen, a private homeowner can do their own home wiring but it still requires official inspection...non electricians, DIYs cannot wire anything except their own home...

and you're right quality work is done by specialists (sub-contractors)who do it right the first time and do it quickly...the idiots that claim they can do everything are the ones that supply me with abundant work and reality shows like Holmes on Homes with endless source of nightmare scenarios...

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ya, or the time I was called to find the source of wet basement, a wannabe diy electrician drilled a hole in a waste drain to run a wire through itlaugh.png every time the owner flushed the toilet it ran out into the basement...call the right people for the job...

I get so much work from DIYs who think they can do everything..."do you know how much an electrician/plumber charges? I'll do it myself" cool.png

When I was putting myself through school and taking care of a sick parent, I worked in a hardware store. The horror stories are baffling. That old saying, "Do you know how much a [choose one: carpenter, electrician, plumber, roofer] costs" was always "Do you know how much [insert proper materials list here] costs?" For instance, people would spend hundreds of dollars to bury wire to go out to a shed or detached garage, but couldn't be bothered spending the extra money on underground wire or conduit. Once they got the wire out to the building, they couldn't be bothered spending the extra few bucks on a shut-off switch for the building. Obviously they weren't having it inspected and were going to do it as cheaply as possible. The sheer volume of careless and dangerous home improvements that are hidden out there scares the shit out of me.
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LOL! Get a General labourer!!!!!!! LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No! Lets insist on a Picture-hanger technician!!!!!!

Im sending this string to all my Buddies at Ellis-Don... The guys building the Hospital in Oakville!! They are gonna bust a gut!!!!!!!!!!!

You get hurt hanging a picture at your house that's one thing. A teacher injures his/herself hanging a picture, it's quite a different story.

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You know , sometimes you post enought to convince some that you are full of BS.

This is one of those posts of yours that screams out ignorance on your part.

I'm convinced that Fletch lies constantly on this forum about his personal life.

And seriously... I hope next time he needs surgery, instead of going to a specialist he decides to have a GP operate on him. Because, you know... specialists aren't as good.

Edited by cybercoma
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We're talking about school buildings right?

Does the teacher happen to have a hammer drill and concrete anchors in their desk to do this work? What happens when the concrete bit breaks and the teacher puts out an eye, do they get workers comp for doing that or will they be denied because drilling into concrete is not in their job description?

correct, I had a drill jump off a screw once and went completely through the finger holding the screw... a massive splinter went right through another finger, or the time I missed a weeks work when I amputated the end of my thumb with a knife and all occurred doing minor/simple tasks...a teacher isn't going to get compensation for any of those...I could write a book of all the injuries I've accumulated over the years and mine were minor compared to other people I've known in the business...

then there is the tools thing which I posted earlier, I have many thousands of dollars of tools for nearly every situation something you cannot supply to every school... and even then I still need to rent some uncommon tools, and that needs to be factored into the cost of a job as well...

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that's surprising...maybe something that should be extended to every province...

Yeah. I had an electrical inspector rake me over the coals because I thought homeowners could do their own wiring as long as it's inspected. He aggressively informed me they couldn't. When I acted surprised, he grilled me on which side is neutral on an electrical outlet. When I gave him the correct answer he just fumed, "well! Most people don't known that!" And I said, "that's why it's supposed to be inspected." In any case, I don't think it has been changed, but yeah. There's not only the national building code, but I found out that day that there are different rules by provinces too.

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For instance, people would spend hundreds of dollars to bury wire to go out to a shed or detached garage, but couldn't be bothered spending the extra money on underground wire or conduit. Once they got the wire out to the building, they couldn't be bothered spending the extra few bucks on a shut-off switch for the building. Obviously they weren't having it inspected and were going to do it as cheaply as possible. The sheer volume of careless and dangerous home improvements that are hidden out there scares the shit out of me.

dangerous beyond belief...often those garage services are 220, conduit with planks lain over top before back-filling(don't recall the depth required)...put a shovel through a 220 and some unsuspecting person is in for a lot of grief...

I've turned away clients who wanted me to cut corners and not follow minimum code, if something goes wrong it's my name that goes on the lawsuit...

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If you don't get hurt, you're not working hard enough. lol

My worst injury at the hardware store happened when I was stocking steel studs. For the record, those things are razor f'ing sharp.

yup..you get good, then you get fast, then you get over confident/careless and there goes a drill through your finger, the end of a finger falls off, a nail through the hand...

I hate steel studs, they're always looking to bite youlaugh.png ...

Edited by wyly
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And ramset and a good saw will shake your fears of steel studs. A good set of gloves and you will be a pro. But you knew that.

You know that you shim a section and cut and entire bundle at one time right? Use yellow ramset? No need for snips till a bulkhead?

If your afraid of your trade.... That speaks volumes...studs don't bite..

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correct, I had a drill jump off a screw once and went completely through the finger holding the screw... a massive splinter went right through another finger, or the time I missed a weeks work when I amputated the end of my thumb with a knife and all occurred doing minor/simple tasks

That just shows carelessness doing those tasks, as well as doing things unsafely to begin with. Don't put your finger where a single slip of your hand will cause something sharp to go right through it. Don't cut towards your fingers/thumbs with a knife. Basic easy stuff here...

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I'm convinced that Fletch lies constantly on this forum about his personal life.

And seriously... I hope next time he needs surgery, instead of going to a specialist he decides to have a GP operate on him. Because, you know... specialists aren't as good.

LOL

Pretty sure he does, judging by the latest post whereby no refutation is forwarded.....well that speaks volumes.

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LOL

Pretty sure he does, judging by the latest post whereby no refutation is forwarded.....well that speaks volumes.

the biggest orifice to ever join this forum,constantly trolls, flames, insults, taunts, lies, I moved him to permanent ignore a couple weeks back and the forum is much nicer place ...
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LOL getting hurt hanging a picture.

you can get hurt doing anything, it comes down to probability...large picture, too small a nail/screw for weight, picture falls, glass breaks slices open leg/ foot...anything is possible, shit happens...my sister-in-law a nurse used to work in the ER she has an endless list of "you won't believe this" stories...
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