It's Too Bad It's Come To This

[socialist]

t's unfortunate the ontario liberal government has backed teachers into a corner. but we all knew this would happen when the liberal government took away teachers right to bargaain. i support these teachers and the union.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/the-bare-minimum-on-report-cards-is-not-acceptable-minister-tells-ontario-teachers/article4620284/

[Big Guy]

Over 10 years ago I retired from a 35 year career in public secondary school education. Since there are active teachers in my family, I have been closely watching recent developments in contract negotiations. I see that Ontario teachers, through their unions, have been protesting at Queen’s Park and are now being encouraged to initiate job actions as a protest against the actions of the McGuinty government.

Yes, there are questions as to the legality of by-passing negotiations, tearing up contracts and/or imposing work and wage conditions. These questions will be resolved by the courts – that is their role. The general perception by the public is that this is a disagreement about money.

Teacher union recent anti-government actions and statements are not endearing the public to their cause. In fact there is a danger that the general public will begin to view the teachers as an out-of-touch, spoiled group not prepared to accept part of the responsibility for our $28 billion deficit.

The last few teacher contract settlements have not been in proportion to the realities of the economy. While teachers were getting 3% annual wage increases, those in the private sector were taking salary decreases or losing jobs. In view of these previous settlements, I believe that the vast majority of the public does not consider a two year wage freeze and other concessions as an outrageous request. It seems more of a pay-back concession in an attempt to reflect the reality of this current recession.

To maintain public trust, public sympathy and successful long term bargaining, the teachers must carefully choose which battles to concede, which battles to fight and which battles to join. I believe that this battle is already lost. It is time to abandon it and save the energies for the next one.

I suggest that the teachers accept the pay freeze and other concessions as the unfortunate reality of the moment. They would greatly improve their public image if they decided to join in the fight against our crippling deficit. They might suggest to other public sector workers on the federal, provincial and municipal levels that they follow the teachers’ lead and accept wage freezes and other concessions for the greater public good. All sectors of the economy are part of the cause of this recession and all sectors should be part of the solution.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Big Guy

[jacee]

I don't know if people are aware that writing report cards is primarily done on teachers' own time - ie, family time:

Union leaders are stopping short of making public announcements, advising their members to do only as much as they are motivated to do beyond the requirements of the job.

Fall report cards were recently revised to eliminate marks and emphasize progress through comments. Teachers began drafting them this month and some of the work is often done on volunteer time, especially when teachers take the time to write lengthier comments.

Teachers aren’t required to fill the space on report cards: They can meet the Ministry of Education’s minimum requirements by inserting a single sentence. Comments can be labour-intensive, with many teachers working over the weekend and into the evenings to complete them. Some school boards give teachers professional development time to write report cards, but legislation enacted by the provincial government this fall cut back on teachers’ professional development days, making three of them unpaid, or volunteer.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/the-bare-minimum-on-report-cards-is-not-acceptable-minister-tells-ontario-teachers/article4620284/?service=mobile

[TimG]

I don't know if people are aware that writing report cards is primarily done on teachers' own time - ie, family time:

So what? Are teachers professionals or hired hands? If they are professionals then they are paid to do a job and hours of work are a secondary concern.

[jacee]

Oh they're doing the job, and they take report cards very seriously.

It's just a matter that might be of interest to the public that there isn't time provided in the work day for teachers to do a critical function like report cards.

[socialist]

Oh they're doing the job, and they take report cards very seriously.

It's just a matter that might be of interest to the public that there isn't time provided in the work day for teachers to do a critical function like report cards.

Great point that the average uneducated joe doesn't understand.

[Guest]

Great point that the average uneducated joe doesn't understand.

If the teachers did a better job, there might not be so many uneducated Joes around.

[jacee]

If the teachers did a better job, there might not be so many uneducated Joes around.

Perhaps she meant 'uninformed'.

[Guest]

Perhaps she meant 'uninformed'.

She?

[cybercoma]

If the teachers did a better job, there might not be so many uneducated Joes around.

Seems Canada has the highest rate of young adults with post-secondary educations in all the industrialized nations. Uneducated?

[cybercoma]

So what? Are teachers professionals or hired hands? If they are professionals then they are paid to do a job and hours of work are a secondary concern.

Professional or not, they should be paid for the work they do. They're not paid on a per case or per client basis like a lawyer or doctor. They're paid a salary, based on the particular requirements as outlined in their contracts. If those requirements do not include writing lengthier comments or even assigning grades on report cards, then they don't have to do it, especially when they're not being paid to do so. People don't work for free. Labour has value.

[DFCaper]

Not sure why the teachers are attacking the public. They wanted McGuinty, the people voted with the teachers and re-elected him, now they realize they were wrong, they punish the public.

They are definitely not a professional organisation, just another group of thugs.

[cybercoma]

It's funny how the teachers, who've been denied the right to work actions and have had their wages frozen and contracts basically torn up, are the thugs in this situation.

[socialist]

It's funny how the teachers, who've been denied the right to work actions and have had their wages frozen and contracts basically torn up, are the thugs in this situation.

Cybercoma, I couldn't have said it any better. BRAVO!!

[DFCaper]

It does show how poorly they are handling this. They got screwed, and are looking bad at it. The NHL players are probably getting more sympathy, Even though they will still make over 2 million a year.

Poor leadership....

[cybercoma]

It does show how poorly they are handling this. They got screwed, and are looking bad at it. The NHL players are probably getting more sympathy, Even though they will still make over 2 million a year.

Poor leadership....

How are they looking bad at it? I don't share your point-of-view, so I'm interested in why you think so.

[Fletch 27]

These teachers are "%^&*&"!.. The Unions andthe TEachers have the GALLL to pull the Students and PAernets into thier Labour dispute?? Would it be ok if the Drywallers union only installed 4 Screws in your damn house when they are in a Labor dispute???? What if the Plumbers union decided to only put glue on HALF of your PVC pipe when being installed in your house? Simply because of a disagreement or protest?

You can back you socialist scum-bags all you want.. I would even alow them the right to protest... But involve my kids in this?? Involve me??? Fire the lot of the SCUM and hire a team of professional instructors, not professional hijackers! F-Them ! They voted Dalton in... They can ROT in the grave they dug.

Reasoning and Logic such as your is EXACTLY the reason that Unions are crumbling.... You are out for yoursefl and will take anyone down in your firery demise.. Sickening

t's unfortunate the ontario liberal government has backed teachers into a corner. but we all knew this would happen when the liberal government took away teachers right to bargaain. i support these teachers and the union.

http://www.theglobea...article4620284/

Edited October 19, 2012 by Fletch 27

[Michael Hardner]

These teachers are Scum.. You can back you socialist scum-bags all you want..

Fletch - insults aren't allowed.

I would even alow them the right to protest... But involve my kids in this?? Involve me???

You can file this under 'false outrage' - you are always involved if there's a public labour dispute. Three question marks implies this is a unique situation, not one that has persisted for several generations.

You are out for yoursefl [sic]

Who isn't out for themselves when they negotiate wages with an employer ?

You strike me as exceedingly naive.

[Fletch 27]

Your OK with them impacting students and Families? I have NO false outrage... I have REAL outrage in this..

To my point.. The Drywallers, They should be ok only using 4 drywall screw in your home during a labor dispute? Or mason only using mortar on every other brick?

You strike me as haveing no concern for others.. You assume i have false outrage??/

Edited October 19, 2012 by Fletch 27

[jacee]

She?

oops! Sorry socialist.

[jacee]

To my point.. The Drywallers, They should be ok only using 4 drywall screw in your home during a labor dispute? Or mason only using mortar on every other brick?

Depends ... Is that to code?

Teachers are working 'to code' instead of above and beyond ... on their own time.

[TimG]

People don't work for free. Labour has value.

And people who do not do their jobs diligently get fired - except for teachers who get offended if any suggests that pay/employment be linked to performance.

As long as teachers take the position that their employers have no business judging the quality of their work then teachers really have no right to complain because the don't get paid for every task they do.

[Fletch 27]

You sure make alot of assumptions.... I have 2 neighbors that are teachers..... They dont do these on thier own time.... They admit it.... There is apparently lots of time to do this when the kids are reading or taking tests......

Your bias and complete lack of concern for the welfare of the children is shamefull

Depends ... Is that to code?

Teachers are working 'to code' instead of above and beyond ... on their own time.

Depends ... Is that to code?

Teachers are working 'to code' instead of above and beyond ... on their own time.

[jacee]

And people who do not do their jobs diligently get fired - except for teachers who get offended if any suggests that pay/employment be linked to performance.

As long as teachers take the position that their employers have no business judging the quality of their work then teachers really have no right to complain because the don't get paid for every task they do.

Hunh?

Clarify please.

[Fletch 27]

Exactly.... No accountability or transparency.. Teachers work for the Union... Not the taxpayer... Its a mess... Fire them all and hire some instructors that can bring something to the table.. Our Ontario teachers are some of the worst in Canada

And people who do not do their jobs diligently get fired - except for teachers who get offended if any suggests that pay/employment be linked to performance.

As long as teachers take the position that their employers have no business judging the quality of their work then teachers really have no right to complain because the don't get paid for every task they do.