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I just reread the letter (thanks for posting the link) and I'm not seeing where you are getting your panties in a wad? Which part (aside from the restoring Canada's name) was so objectionable?

I think the implication there is that Canada's good name was lost. Seeing that for the last 6 years we've been under Conservative rule you could reasonable make the assumption he's saying that the CPC has hurt Canada's reputation.

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It's his death, not yours. He can do what he want.

Yes, it's his death and he can do what he wants. And I can criticize his decision.

Hopefully, on the day you are eventually banned from this forum

I hope nobody gets banned from this forum. Ever. Even you. :)

I think the implication there is that Canada's good name was lost. Seeing that for the last 6 years we've been under Conservative rule you could reasonable make the assumption he's saying that the CPC has hurt Canada's reputation.

Well said.

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I just reread the letter (thanks for posting the link) and I'm not seeing where you are getting your panties in a wad? Which part (aside from the restoring Canada's name) was so objectionable?

Some get their panties in a wad the reason being is they hate Layton and thought his lionization upon his death was wrong. (it may have been over the top but thats another thread)

If one were fair, they would realize that the letter was written , in the most part, to his followers.

With the exception of that last paragraph, and only the one paragraph, does he branch out to all canadians.

It is not a classless letter , but most certainly classless to heap scorn on the man for the letter.

Some can read what is there, some read into what they want to . Guess which camp those ones are?

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Some get their panties in a wad the reason being is they hate Layton and thought his lionization upon his death was wrong. (it may have been over the top but thats another thread)

If one were fair, they would realize that the letter was written , in the most part, to his followers.

With the exception of that last paragraph, and only the one paragraph, does he branch out to all canadians.

It is not a classless letter , but most certainly classless to heap scorn on the man for the letter.

Some can read what is there, some read into what they want to . Guess which camp those ones are?

And we can agree to disagree. In my opinion, addressing a letter to ALL Canadians and inserting partisan political talking points, talking points that were used during the federal campaign is at least a little classless. However, others may disagree.

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And we can agree to disagree. In my opinion, addressing a letter to ALL Canadians and inserting partisan political talking points, talking points that were used during the federal campaign is at least a little classless. However, others may disagree.

And here is where your opinion is not based on truth, which is of course the angle others are trying to show, but for which you refuse to see.

The letter was not addressed to All Cdns, it was addressed to his followers, others who had cancer, young Canucks and finally all Canadians. Out of 11 paragraphs, the last one is addressed to all.

You want to throw the baby out with the bath water, go right ahead. But just know you are being dishonest by perpetuating that is was written to all canadians.

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In my opinion, addressing a letter to ALL Canadians and inserting partisan political talking points, talking points that were used during the federal campaign is at least a little classless.

Now it's just "at least a little"? Does that mean you are no longer "equally" classless and are more so? After the comment in the other thread about Layton and deflowering adolescent girls, I would say "way" more so. :lol:

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The letter was not addressed to All Cdns

Perhaps you haven't read the actual text of the letter. And I quote...

And finally, to all Canadians

We can restore our good name in the world

Link

Just admit when you're wrong already. :rolleyes:

Now it's just "at least a little"? Does that mean you are no longer "equally" classless and are more so? After the comment in the other thread about Layton and deflowering adolescent girls, I would say "way" more so. :lol:

I'm not the one that used my death to score political points. As for the other thread, I was making a point in the context of a particular topic.

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Perhaps you haven't read the actual text of the letter. And I quote...

I am getting the impression you just arent smart enough to understand. But I will focus on your obstinance and juvenile thought process instead.

The letter was not addressed to all Canadians and you damn well know it, but in weasally fashion for which you are well known (and documented on this site)you refuse to see what is plain on paper. The letter was addressed to his supporters, says so right in the opening paragraph.

It is only the 10th or 11 th paragraph where the "All Canadians' part comes in.

But since you refuse to accept what is black and white and irrefutable, I shall post for you and all to see...

Opening paragraph....

Dear Friends,

Tens of thousands of Canadians have written to me in recent weeks to wish me well. I want to thank each and every one of you for your thoughtful, inspiring and often beautiful notes, cards and gifts. Your spirit and love have lit up my home, my spirit, and my determination.

So, he addresses a letter to his friends, those tens of thousand who had written him to offer support.

NOTE: Not addressed to All Canadians.

Moving on....

Paragraphs 2 3 and 4

Unfortunately my treatment has not worked out as I hoped. So I am giving this letter to my partner Olivia to share with you in the circumstance in which I cannot continue.

I recommend that Hull-Aylmer MP Nycole Turmel continue her work as our interim leader until a permanent successor is elected.

I recommend the party hold a leadership vote as early as possible in the New Year, on approximately the same timelines as in 2003, so that our new leader has ample time to reconsolidate our team, renew our party and our program, and move forward towards the next election.

Again, not All Canadians , just his supporters

Par's #5 and 6

A few additional thoughts:

To other Canadians who are on journeys to defeat cancer and to live their lives, I say this: please don’t be discouraged that my own journey hasn’t gone as well as I had hoped. You must not lose your own hope. Treatments and therapies have never been better in the face of this disease. You have every reason to be optimistic, determined, and focused on the future. My only other advice is to cherish every moment with those you love at every stage of your journey, as I have done this summer.

To the members of my party: we’ve done remarkable things together in the past eight years. It has been a privilege to lead the New Democratic Party and I am most grateful for your confidence, your support, and the endless hours of volunteer commitment you have devoted to our cause. There will be those who will try to persuade you to give up our cause. But that cause is much bigger than any one leader. Answer them by recommitting with energy and determination to our work. Remember our proud history of social justice, universal health care, public pensions and making sure no one is left behind. Let’s continue to move forward. Let’s demonstrate in everything we do in the four years before us that we are ready to serve our beloved Canada as its next government.

Addresses cancer patients and his party supporters.

Once again, not addressed to all Canadians and certainly not any overt political statement at all.

par's #7 and 8 and 9

To the members of our parliamentary caucus: I have been privileged to work with each and every one of you. Our caucus meetings were always the highlight of my week. It has been my role to ask a great deal from you. And now I am going to do so again. Canadians will be closely watching you in the months to come. Colleagues, I know you will make the tens of thousands of members of our party proud of you by demonstrating the same seamless teamwork and solidarity that has earned us the confidence of millions of Canadians in the recent election.

To my fellow Quebecers: On May 2nd, you made an historic decision. You decided that the way to replace Canada’s Conservative federal government with something better was by working together in partnership with progressive-minded Canadians across the country. You made the right decision then; it is still the right decision today; and it will be the right decision right through to the next election, when we will succeed, together. You have elected a superb team of New Democrats to Parliament. They are going to be doing remarkable things in the years to come to make this country better for us all.

To young Canadians: All my life I have worked to make things better. Hope and optimism have defined my political career, and I continue to be hopeful and optimistic about Canada. Young people have been a great source of inspiration for me. I have met and talked with so many of you about your dreams, your frustrations, and your ideas for change. More and more, you are engaging in politics because you want to change things for the better. Many of you have placed your trust in our party. As my time in political life draws to a close I want to share with you my belief in your power to change this country and this world. There are great challenges before you, from the overwhelming nature of climate change to the unfairness of an economy that excludes so many from our collective wealth, and the changes necessary to build a more inclusive and generous Canada. I believe in you. Your energy, your vision, your passion for justice are exactly what this country needs today. You need to be at the heart of our economy, our political life, and our plans for the present and the future.

Nothing specifically political nor party aligned politics to be seen anywhere.

and now we get to the one....1... Uno ..paragraph addressed to all Canadians.

And finally, to all Canadians: Canada is a great country, one of the hopes of the world. We can be a better one – a country of greater equality, justice, and opportunity. We can build a prosperous economy and a society that shares its benefits more fairly. We can look after our seniors. We can offer better futures for our children. We can do our part to save the world’s environment. We can restore our good name in the world. We can do all of these things because we finally have a party system at the national level where there are real choices; where your vote matters; where working for change can actually bring about change. In the months and years to come, New Democrats will put a compelling new alternative to you. My colleagues in our party are an impressive, committed team. Give them a careful hearing; consider the alternatives; and consider that we can be a better, fairer, more equal country by working together. Don’t let them tell you it can’t be done.

My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.

Just admit when you're wrong already. :rolleyes:

I will when I am wrong .

Will you do so here and now?

I'm not the one that used my death to score political points.

No , in typical fashion you used a death to further exhibit your ignorance.

Edited by guyser
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I am getting the impression you just arent smart enough to understand.

Actually, that's kinda the impression I'm getting from you. My issue from his letter is from the paragraph he specifically addresses to ALL CANADIANS. What part of that don't you understand? :rolleyes:

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Actually, that's kinda the impression I'm getting from you. My issue from his letter is from the paragraph he specifically addresses to ALL CANADIANS. What part of that don't you understand? :rolleyes:

See, the bold part above is a weasals way of posting.

You said, and I quote...

In my opinion, addressing a letter to ALL Canadians and

when in fact the letter was not addressed to all Canadians, only a paragraph was.

Where will the goal posts be tomorrow ?

Edited by guyser
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Shady, you know thats not true , and one cannot debate with a liar. I am done.

Enjoy your classless act.

I'm confused as to why you're having such a hard time understanding. I'm SPECIFICALLY referring to the paragraphy addressed TO ALL CANADIANS. What about that concept can't you grasp? Seriously dude, what's you're problem? It should be a fairly simple endeavour. I'll try one more time, just in case this time around, it sinks in...

Here's the entire paragraph, just in case you're unaware.

And finally, to all Canadians: Canada is a great country, one of the hopes of the world. We can be a better one – a country of greater equality, justice, and opportunity. We can build a prosperous economy and a society that shares its benefits more fairly. We can look after our seniors. We can offer better futures for our children. We can do our part to save the world’s environment. We can restore our good name in the world.

Jack Layton's Letter

agreed.... idiotic statement.... political points... why? So he can win the next election?

Classless indeed.

Not quite as classless as a politician using his death for political talking points. However, if you wanna see a politician handling a similar situation with actual class, read Reagan's letter to the American people. No politics at all in it.

Reagan's Letter To The American People

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He's dead. I don't think it much matters to him what you think of his last letter to various groups of people.

I never said it did.

There's only one side here that's benefiting from political points scores.

Whether you like it or not, his letter was filled with political talking points.

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Not quite as classless as a politician using his death for political talking points.

Still only your opinion, and one that is only shared by a few other spiteful, overly partisan, conservative hacks. I guess it takes a certain amount of self-loathing to come out against partisanship with such vitriol. :lol:

Edited by LonJowett
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Whether you like it or not, his letter was filled with political talking points.

Or, it was filled with the heartfelt convictions of a dying man. I don't expect you to see the letter for that which it was, and I don't expect you to see how disgusting it is that you're judging it in the way that you are, still, months after his death; not understanding its deeper meaning, as a leaders last will and testament; not understanding how truly terrifying it must have been to write that letter, the sobering reality that you are writing your own obituary, and that you have, by virtue of your position, so many loose ends to tie up, and so little time to tie them.

As I said, idiotic, and beyond that, disgusting.

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However, if you wanna see a politician handling a similar situation with actual class, read Reagan's letter to the American people. No politics at all in it.

Reagan's Letter To The American People

Totally different situation Shady, Reagan wrote that as a past President and a private citizen, not as the leader of a political party that had just been elected Leader of the Opposition. And certainly not as his final statement to the Country.

LDS I suppose on your part.

Keep being classy bud.

Edited by Shakeyhands
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Or, it was filled with the heartfelt convictions of a dying man. I don't expect you to see the letter for that which it was, and I don't expect you to see how disgusting it is that you're judging it in the way that you are, still, months after his death; not understanding its deeper meaning, as a leaders last will and testament; not understanding how truly terrifying it must have been to write that letter, the sobering reality that you are writing your own obituary, and that you have, by virtue of your position, so many loose ends to tie up, and so little time to tie them.

As I said, idiotic, and beyond that, disgusting.

Disgusting? I think you were tired or frustrated when you wrote that.

It's pretty uncommon to leave a letter to be read upon your death. A will yes, which might have any communication you would wish to say to your loved ones. In the end they are the only ones who count to a person on their death bed. To write a letter to be read to your co-workers or members of a political party you belong to is not done. What kind of a mindset does something like this? A really big ego. Or maybe someone with a skewed take on the reality of the situation.

I'm not taking the position of Shady who considers only the part directed to Canadians to be off base. I think the whole letter is off base. To make such a communication while living is fine, but to make the exact same letter with the intent of using your own death to amplify the message is plain weird. Don't get me wrong, a person can do what they want, it's their death. But their actions can be observed and commented on since in this case it was done in public. And to do this shows someone who thinks that they are bigger than the party, or the movement. Someone who thinks the party can't function without them, and it's a form of micro-management. It shows bad judgement. And that the party has so quickly fallen shows there wasn't a plan or structure in place to succeed outside of Layton's rule, which adds fire to the bad judgement idea.

Jack may have been many things, but he certainly was not perfect.

Edited by sharkman
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