Canada's Low Birth Rate

[August1991]

Some basic data is available here but the trend has been downward. Demographics are hard to analyze. And it's an arguable point whether the world needs more people.

My question concerns Canada's falling birth rate. I suspect part of the explanation is found in custody decisions as argued here.

This is so typical of well-intentioned State policies that create more problems than they solve.

[Michael Hardner]

I suspect part of the explanation is found in custody decisions as argued here.

I can't imagine any couple wanting to have children, but deciding against it because of the prevalent custody laws.

I suspect that the usual suspects are to blame: careers, education, and so forth.

This is so typical of well-intentioned State policies that create more problems than they solve.

Then the State must rectify it. Custody and child support laws aren't a bad thing on the whole, but there are elements of the law that should be changed.

[kimmy]

What I think is that more and more couples are deciding both partners need to work in order to provide a standard of living that they consider appropriate. More women delay marriage and childbearing so that they can concentrate on their careers first. Then it becomes a matter of working until the mortgage is paid off, or the SUV is paid for, or the cabin at the lake is paid for... as they enjoy the material things that 2 incomes can afford them, they decide they can wait a little longer to have children. They have children later and they have fewer. That is my theory, anyway. Based mostly on watching family friends and relatives.

Anyway, I guess a question is, is it really such a bad thing? Like, as a nation we've decided that immigration is good... there's no shortage of people around the world who seem to want to come to Canada, so making up any shortfall in Canadian births shouldn't be a problem, right?

-kimmy

[caesar]

That article and lawsuit are a bit ridiculous. More child custody is being made joint custody. If the one parent does not have any custody rights; it is usually for good reason. I did say Usually, not always.

The reason for our declining birthrate is due to better contraception methods. Most people these days do find that two children are all they can afford if they wish to send them to get a good college education. I agree.

These days; most families require two incomes; more children would mean astronomical day care costs.

[belfred]

I wonder if any would agree, the root cause behind declining Canadian births is closely associated with 'selfishness'. The kind that sees goods and possessions as being the first order in 'family' business.

A terribly distorted value system has spread over our country . Is the bearing of children no longer the priceless gift it once was ?

Where does this current thinking take us ?

[caesar]

No Belfred; not selfishness but concern for giving the children all that they need for a good future. A child born today will require a secondary education; be it college or a good trade school.

It would be irresponsible and selfish to keep having children that they could not afford to raise comfortably.

Previous generations; children were needed to help on farms or some family business. Now most of this work is done by machinery and less labour intensive. A child to grow up successfully; will require an extensive education that is getting more expensive everyday.

[Guest eureka]

All the reasons mentioned are a large part of declining birth rates. There may also be others.

The secularisation of society may play a part as the masses are no longer under the strictures to bear chikdren or, as used to be said in England in upper class circles: "one for the father, one for the mother, and one for the state." With respect to secularisation, Quebec is a prime example. It has, I think, the lowest birth rate amongst Canadian provinces. That in a province that a short time ago had the highest when Church ruled.

There may also be environmental roots. The phenomen is world wide although not so pronounced as in the developed countries. I recall reading that sperm counts in Canadian men are only about 50% of what they were some decades (I don't remember the comparison) ago. Thus, there are many more infertile couples.

Canada's problem is that our birth rate is well below replacement in a country that, by some measures, is one of the very few underpopulated areas. Even the USA has a higher rate.

[caesar]

Well, if we limit how long a single mother can stay on welfare; we may sudden get a higher birthrate; a new baby every so many years to keep her qualified for welfare. I don't think we need that. Even good Catholics are not having large families

[Bro]

What section of people fall into the category of declining

birth rates?

Is it Canada as a whole,is it one or two provinces ,is it certain groups of people,is it established Canadians,is it

new Canadians,is it certain people of certain income brackets,it is a general statement which needs very much more research.

[Big Blue Machine]

I tihnk the government should encourage more babies being born. I personally want to have alot of kids. I'm gainst abortions also. Why waste a perfectly good child, that could do great things?

[caesar]

spoken like a teenager that you are. Children cost money; lots of it. Don't have more children than you can comfortably support and educate, please.

[Slavik44]

I think it has been nailed, education, career, cost of living, there could be an arguement made for Birth control being a reason, I don't anyone have statistics on how often people were having sex ten years ago compared to today?

[Alliance Fanatic]

spoken like a teenager that you are. Children cost money; lots of it. Don't have more children than you can comfortably support and educate, please.

Spoken like a true socialist, if it costs money kill them off. Kind of like in communist China, which Ceaser probably thinks is better that the USA .

Why don't we give a tax break for every child a person has so it does'nt cost as much money for the parents.

[Argus]

My question concerns Canada's falling birth rate.  I suspect part of the explanation is found in custody decisions as argued here.

No, I don't think so. I think economics are the heart of the matter. In my parents' time, one wage earner could support a family fairly well. As an example, one uncle worked as a Brinks guard. That's not a very well paying position compared to many others. Nevertheless, he was able to own both a car and a house, and pay all the bills for a family of five. Try that today! Even with a double income of over $100k families with 1 or 2 kids have trouble paying off mortage and car and scraping up a few bucks to send the kid to camp occasionally.

The value of labour is based on supply and demand. When, generally speaking, only men worked, the value of their labour was greater. Now that almost all women work (doubling the labour force) the value of their labour is neccesarily diminished. They earn less, proportionately. So both partners in a marriage generally have to work. That makes it hard to pay for kids and to devote the neccessary time to their upbringing.

My grandfather was a messenger on Parliament Hill. He had a grade 3 education. But he had a family of 10, and no one ever went cold or hungry - in an era where there was no UIC or free clothes from the likes of the Sally Ann (or if there was they'd never have stooped to accepting them). My grandmother did a little cleaning and laundry (for rich folks) to help make some money, but generally her job was as a housewife.

Anyone think a guy who works as a messenger can support 8 kids and a non-working wife today? With no help from the government at all?

[Cartman]

Kimmy has raised the key question here. If we believe that there will never be a shortage of people willing to relocate to Canada, then perhaps all is well. But, it is disturbing that we rely upon foreign sources just to maintain our population. It suggests that the costs of raising our children have become so high that we cannot (or are unwilling to) even replace ourselves. Though I believe it to be too costly (time, money) to have many children, I also believe that we have overinflated career drives. Success is driven into us and children are optional.

Is it inappropriate to suggest that we should not rely upon foreign sources for population maintenance? Is there a limit to the number of immigrants we should accept? If so, what is it (roughly)? Is not racism different than population management? And BTW, why was this question entirely ignored during the last election? Is it not extremely important?

[RB]

I don't anyone have statistics on how often people were having sex ten years ago compared to today?

I think its lots lots less

fifty years ago for sure sex was more, most women were stay-at-home mums with more free time but now for the past 15 years more women have entered into job so.... I can protest

We are too busy – No sex tonight please!!

I guess there is a correlation between the # of times we have sex and the # of kids conceived

If this is true then I think modern women are definitely having less sex than years ago.

No, no it not a lack of interest in sex, and no we are not dysfunctional like problems with arousal and orgasm as was previously thought. In fact, only 1 in 4 women are seriously distressed about sex, well this is better news than ½ of the population of American women that was previously thought to have had problems

Anyway, there is less leisure time available for sex.

Like there is a lot more to do during the day, watch favorite TV show, talk for hours on the phone, work twice as hard, kids coping-dropping off to daycare etc., shopping, gym etc. This is all distressingly tiring.

My favorite argument is that women are not slaves to duties of roles such as wives – and also women are not energise to work hard all day and then become 'porn stars" later that night so sex is not # 1 priority!.

Researchers from the Kinsey Institute

"said women now have less time for sex. Today's women have less sex than their 1950s counterparts, say researchers.

Experts in the United States believe the demands of modern life are to blame - leaving women with little time or energy".

Oh, by the way, in order to stay healthy with your sperm counts if you are not visiting the gym sex should be up to and greater than 4 times a week and also note your sperm counts are down so maybe that can help explain why there ain't addition to this population.

[RB]

Ok the question I asked is there some sort of pressure to increase population growth in Canada?

If we knew the ratio of young:old we could draw some inferences

we know with the older folks we can only count on lower birth rates

if the population of older people outnumber the young then we have to look @ perhaps immigration

and then are we intent and encouraging our own young to stay within or are we also favoring migration - like do we know how many canadians migrate yearly

I think it might have been cheaper to raise kids during the agricuture society, little education needed, and food available which might explain the now third world that even when they are seemingly poor can accept this incentive to have many children

On the other hand I think the more modern a women is, the more likely she is to limit the number of kids base on cost and benefits since these kids are the little industries she invests in and therefore must take up responsibilities seriously because both these parents are co-owners, so some precise calculations really

but also based on experiece yes education, career and decisions making of the female is playing out in the outcome of children

[Big Blue Machine]

It's partly because woman put careers before having kids.

[caesar]

The reasons for the lower birth rates are by choices of women AND men. A child should have two involved parents. Many times the man is too involved in HIS career to have time to help raise the child,

[Big Blue Machine]

Ok

[Black Dog]

A big factor is that more people are waiting longer to have kids. Mor epeopel want to have a career and a life before they take on the responsibility of kids.

I also wonder if there's been any rise in infertility.

I wonder if any would agree, the root cause behind declining Canadian births is closely associated with 'selfishness'. The kind that sees goods and possessions as being the first order in 'family' business.

A terribly distorted value system has spread over our country . Is the bearing of children no longer the priceless gift it once was ?

Where does this current thinking take us ?

Bearing children is not a "priceless gift": it's our biolgical mandate. I see no problem with people wanting something more from life than work, breed and die.

Personally, I like these guys' philosophy.

[I miss Reagan]

Bearing children is not a "priceless gift": it's our biolgical mandate.

This is quite insensitive to the homosexual community don't cha think?

[Black Dog]

Bearing children is not a "priceless gift": it's our biolgical mandate.

This is quite insensitive to the homosexual community don't cha think?

Not really. That's why they call heteros "breeders."

[playfullfellow]

The reasons for the lower birth rates are by choices of women AND men. A child should have two involved parents. Many times the man is too involved in HIS career to have time to help raise the child,

Times have changed Caesar, I personally think that men have gotten more involved in raising the kids and family life. I think that overall, the family life has been shot to hell with people wanting to keep up with the Jones's. It is not just the man of the house but the woman, if she works, faces the same pressures. I have my hectic times and my chaos times, no in betweens, at work but I put in a very big effort to be involved in everything my kids do and how they cope with life. Family decisions are mutual and we all work towards being a semi-normal family. We teach our kids respect and that they have to work towards things they want in life. We also hug our kids and spend time with them everyday, no matter how crappy a day we have had.

People seem to opt for smaller families because of all of the other stresses in life. And we have also fallen into the trap of believeing that it is more proper to have a smaller family to prevent over running the world with people. There are hundreds of excuses but in reality, it is none of our business as long as people are happy and do a good job raising their kids.