Canada Has Lost Its Identity!

[I miss Reagan]

So now what will Canadians do for their identity now that Molson has merged with Coors? Who will speak for us now that "Joe Canada" has realized that Canada perhaps is not "the best part of North America"? Let's admit it, the only thing that unifies Canadians now is their hatred of Americans.

[Black Dog]

Fer the record, Molson and Coors haven't merged. They're still just talking about it.

And I don't think anyone believes drinking terrible beer like Canadian is key to the national identity.

If anything, the jingoistic "Joe Canada" mentality is more at home among the chest-beating and flag waving down south. I like to think of Candian nationalism as being more...polite.

[I miss Reagan]

Let's not split hairs here. They've agreed to merge, it's pretty much a done deal. I wouldn't say Canadian nationalism is more polite, although I know most Canadians like to pat themselves on the back for how "nice" they are. I think Canadians have quite a bit of arrogance prancing around the world with the Maple Leaf plastered on everything they own.

[Black Dog]

I think Canadian nationalism has taken a sharp turn towards the boorish in recent years, (no doubt due to the pervasive influence of beer marketing: heck, I've even seen quite a few young suburban low-rollers about sporting "I Am Candian" tattoos, for crying out loud). The Canada Days of my youth were unsullied by the kind of flag waving and jingoism I see today (the Edmonton "riot" of two years ago is one example). I don't like it one bit.

And if you think it's arrogant for Candians to stick maple leaves on their backpacks and such when travelling abroad, I'd recommend spending a bit of time in the States, where the Stars and Stripes is so ubiquitous, you think that they keep it to remind themselves of where they live. Of course, the Candian flag on the backpack developed not out of a sense of patriotism, but due to the fact that folks overseas (particularily in Europe) don't like Americans, but love Canadians.

Finally, the merger is by no means a done deal, as the Molson family itself is divided on the subject. And even if it was: who cares? One crappy brewery joins up with another one to make more crappy beer. Big deal.

[I miss Reagan]

And if you think it's arrogant for Candians to stick maple leaves on their backpacks and such when travelling abroad, I'd recommend spending a bit of time in the States, where the Stars and Stripes is so ubiquitous, you think that they keep it to remind themselves of where they live. Of course, the Candian flag on the backpack developed not out of a sense of patriotism, but due to the fact that folks overseas (particularily in Europe) don't like Americans, but love Canadians.

I'm sorry but you have fallen victim, like so many other Canadians, to the fallacy that the entire world hates Americans and loves Canadians. While it is likely true that many people in the world dislike American foreign policy and G.W. Bush. The key to your above statement "spending time in the United States" (where I lived for 10 years BTW). Americans are pretty good at keeping their flags within the confines of their borders. Something Canadians are terrible at. Canadians really believe that the world loves Canadians as if we are so much more polite than anyone else. The truth is the world sees us as pretty much the same as Americans. We're all from North America.

[I miss Reagan]

This is my point. In travelling through Europe last summer I just have to say that I didn't find the hate towards americans that Canadians seem to profess exists. The Germans, the Spanish, the Italians were all very nice even though I did not have the "protection" of a giant maple leaf plastered on my back pack. In fact I felt so at ease I put a US flag pin on my back pack just to see if I'd be mistreated. Everyone was still very polite. In walking through the streets I found it odd to see Euro's wearing US flag shirts and Yankee hats. And where of all places... in France! and the people were very nice there as well. Perhaps they have realized where their bread and butter comes from.

And I happened across a very obnoxious couple who felt everyone wanted to hear they're politics etc. and guess where they were from, no not Texas, Ontario! What a surprise. Arrogantly spouting off their views about the US occupation in Iraq, comfortably in the company of myself, my companion and an Arab couple until they learned the Arab couple was from Kuwait and were actually happy the US had rid Saddam from them.

So what is my point. No I'm not saying that Euro's love George W. or the US government. But I certainly did not find the contempt towards Americans so propegated in Canadian culture. Are all Canadian travellers arrogant. No but I once again have found that many are arrogant because they are so misinformed about world opinions. Perhaps Canadians should find other sources of info other than CBC and Molson beer ads.

[Cartman]

As this is a potential merger and not a takeover, it could just as easily be said that Americans have lost their identity. We did not lose our culture when Labatt's was purchased by a foreign company and we will not lose it if/when Molson merges with Coors.

Canadian culture is not based upon a commercial. Perhaps you spent too much time living in the US and should get your "information" from some place other than CNN or America's Most Wanted. Canadian culture is based upon values of unity through diversity, mutual respect and tolerance of difference and a belief in basic standards of living.

Considering crime rates and incarceration rates in the United States, it seems fair to say that Americans hate Americans more than anyone else. Maybe that is why you were surprised that overt expressions of hatred were not evident. BTW...I hope that you did not demonstrate love for the US at a French restaurant.

I have been to Germany and Latvia (the latter has a Canadian leader BTW) several times and disagree with you entirely.

[Black Dog]

I'm sorry but you have fallen victim, like so many other Canadians, to the fallacy that the entire world hates Americans and loves Canadians. While it is likely true that many people in the world dislike American foreign policy and G.W. Bush. The key to your above statement "spending time in the United States" (where I lived for 10 years BTW). Americans are pretty good at keeping their flags within the confines of their borders. Something Canadians are terrible at. Canadians really believe that the world loves Canadians as if we are so much more polite than anyone else. The truth is the world sees us as pretty much the same as Americans. We're all from North America.

I never professed to buy into the rationale, only stated the reasoning behind it.

As for the Americans' flag fetishization, as an occassional visitor, I find that even more obnoxious and self-serving than any wee maple leaf on a backpack.

So what is my point. No I'm not saying that Euro's love George W. or the US government. But I certainly did not find the contempt towards Americans so propegated in Canadian culture. Are all Canadian travellers arrogant. No but I once again have found that many are arrogant because they are so misinformed about world opinions. Perhaps Canadians should find other sources of info other than CBC and Molson beer ads.

Subjective experiences are a poor way to deduce popular feeling. I've had some very good experiences with Americans and soem not so good ones. It doesn't mean either is indicative of Americans in general.

Finally, I think a certain level of antipathy towards America by Canadians is to be expected. I certainly resent the notion so popular among certain circles, that we have an obligation to support the U.S. on everything simply by virtue of oour economic and geogrpahic proximity.

[Cartman]

Dare ya to wear that same US flag pin in Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt, Libya ......

[caesar]

Many of those wearing the Canadian maple leaf over in Europe/ Asia are Americans. Many colleges were telling their students travelling overseas that they would be safer by pretending to be Canadian.

Americans are ususally disliked more for their countries' pushy policies than theit own. However, the ugly American; loud and pushy is not completely a myth. They have been fed how great they and their country is; and many do believe it. I can usually spot an American and distinquish from a Canadian 9 times out of 10; I am right.

[willy]

casesar, when was the last time you were in Europe. I found that they don't distinguish between us and Americans.

I say "I am not American" and they say "North Americano."

We are no better than they are but we just have less responsibility.

We are good and they are bad is BS. Don't be a hater and realize you are no better.

[I miss Reagan]

BTW...I hope that you did not demonstrate love for the US at a French restaurant.

You know I thought there would be issues there, but I actually found them to be very nice, but I was not in Paris. I understand in Paris they hate everyone. As for daring me to go to Egypt or Saudi etc. Well I'm sure I wouldn't need a flag on my backpack for them to figure out I would be a good target. But how about Nairobi or better yet Tanzania (80% Muslim). I spent some time there and tried to get a pulse for wide spread anti-americanism. Didn't personally see it. I spent 5 days in a train car with some really devout Muslims during Ramadan. Had lots of time to really ask them about how they felt about Americans. They conveyed no ill will whatsoever. No one ever made a real distinction between Americans or Canadians.

[I miss Reagan]

Many of those wearing the Canadian maple leaf over in Europe/ Asia are Americans. Many colleges were telling their students travelling overseas that they would be safer by pretending to be Canadian.

Ya that and Americans drive to Canada in July with skis on their roof racks. That is such garbage. That little red leaf that seemingly makes one bulletproof. The only Americans who do that are liberal freaks from Berkley who are ashamed to be American. What is really funny is that you don't generally see Aussies, Swiss, British, etc. parading around with their flags on their luggage so as not to look American. One guy I talked to who runs a hostel in S. Africa told me it's the big joke around there which Canadian will have the biggest flag on their backpack.

[Cartman]

I have been to Germany and Latvia (the latter has a Canadian leader BTW) several times and disagree with you entirely.

Actually, let me rephrase this. I do not "entirely" disagree with you because some people hold a lot of admiration for Americans. Many, however, do not distinguish between Americans and the current administration.

[caesar]

You mean they admire and want the American dollar. America is not the most popular nation in the world; for good reason at this time. I do not think most intelligent people cannot distinquish between nice friendly individual Americans and the G Bush administration.

[playfullfellow]

Showing or wearing a flag of your country is a matter of pride. There is nothing wrong with that. A lot of Europeans have a flag pole in their yards and most have a country sticker on their cars. As for Canadian acceptance in other countries, it is generally pretty good. We are well respected in most European countries as being a fair and honest country. What's wrong with wearing that pride on your backpack or jacket, no matter what other may think.

[kimmy]

When I lived in Ottawa I found that there was a ridiculous number of Canadian flags around. I don't think Americans are the only ones with a flag-waving fetish.

I don't think Molson is an important part of Canada's identity... but I do think that Joe Canadian and the "I am Canadian" ads are one of the few efforts anybody has made to express some kind of Canadian nationalism. Some of the ads might be a little boorish, but give credit where it is due, they found something that Canadians identified with and it has been a great success for them. Molson didn't create or define a national identity, but they have been busy at promoting the idea that we *have* a national identity, and that's not a bad thing.

ps... Molson and Coors are horrible!

-kimmy

{I used to put Coors in the wasp traps as bait, but the SPCA made me stop! }

[Bakunin]

Its funny because we did not have "joe canadian" ads in quebec, i wonder why ? lol .

[I miss Reagan]

I just love the hypocrisy of Molson's latest commercials "Why don't I drink American beer!" While at the same time they merge with an American Beer company. I guess Molson will start wearing "Jamacan snowshoes, eating Japanese hotdogs, and driving Moroccan snowmobiles"

So typically Canadian: "we hate Americans!" is the cry. But we love their clothes, food, movies, money, cars, sports, etc.

[Cartman]

So typically Canadian: "we hate Americans!" is the cry. But we love their clothes, food, movies, money, cars, sports, etc.

I don't think many Canadians hate Americans. It is more like jealousy; a mix of admiration with frustration. In some ways, they have the best nation on earth but at times they have abused their position of power.

BTW...cannot stand US sports.

[I miss Reagan]

I don't think many Canadians hate Americans. It is more like jealousy; a mix of admiration with frustration. In some ways, they have the best nation on earth but at times they have abused their position of power.

BTW...cannot stand US sports.

Ya I think that is a fair comment. The are good and bad things about both countries. I certainly don't admire every aspect of the US. However I do think that the former rivelry and jealousy has turned into hatred for a lot of people. Kids are taught in school by anti-US teachers, we have the CBC which makes no bones about being anti-american, we have had a government which was openly insulting towards Americans. Canadians perception and misunderstanding of G.W. Bush has added a lot of fuel to that fire as well. But ya you're right, we often get screwed by them merely as a result of their size.

[udawg]

Our relationship, and much of the world's, with the US is like that of the farmer and the ants. The ants see their homes destroyed by the clumsy farmer's boots, and hate the farmer for it. The farmer wonders why, he has no such feelings towards the ants. He simply can't avoid all the little ants scurrying around underfoot... he doesn't hate them, but nor can he look out for the safety of each individual ant.

[caesar]

q

Our relationship, and much of the world's, with the US is like that of the farmer and the ants. The ants see their homes destroyed by the clumsy farmer's boots, and hate the farmer for it. The farmer wonders why, he has no such feelings towards the ants. He simply can't avoid all the little ants scurrying around underfoot... he doesn't hate them, but nor can he look out for the safety of each individual ant.

_------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is the biggest piece of crap I have heard. The USA dropping bombs and torturing prisoners is not anything like a farmer stepping on a few ants. Geeeesh.

[caesar]

I am certainly NOT jealous of American. At this time PITY is the word. They are now sitting ducks for another terrorist attack because of the actions of their government.

I buy Canadian whenever I can; why would I want their produce when ours is better and fresher than stuff shipped and picked too early so it can be shipped without rotting or bruising. Oranges are about the only American fruit I will buy.

As for our government officials being insulting; the insults and threats and orders came from the USA government officials first. Canada did not even get a mention from Bush for our support and help after 9/11.

[I am Canadian]

Hello everyone....

I was doing a paper on poverty and I happened to find some information on this site. As I was looking around, i found this forum and I decided to read a few comments that was of interest to me. To my surprise I found something I was dying to talk to someone about... Canada's identify. Relating it to the Moslen and Coors merging.... I was very upset when I heard this news. I mean, Canada is selling way too much of ourselves to foreign owners!!!! We have to stop; it doesn't do us any good. Is it not scary that over 60% of businesses are foreign owed? Moslen has been a Canadian company for many generations and it's the second oldest one, first being Hudson Bay. We should really stop selling our country. We need to keep what is ours, despite business making profit. I hate to see our country melt into our neighbors. We need to do something about this. I just wish there are more people that are concern about this issue. It's not about how good beer taste or how bad, but it is about our identity. Canada is NOT for sale!!!!!! :angry:

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