Omnibus Crime Bill to Cost the Provinces Billions

[cybercoma]

Dude... prosecutors dont take these cases to trial. Where I live they are already letting real criminals go free because they could not get a court date in a reasonable ammount of time. And theres a whole bunch of really basic ways that the provinces can render this legislation moot. The police can not arrest (happens all the time), the presecutor can not charge or plead the case out, the judge can summarily dismiss the charges, or they can find the defendant guilty of a lesser crime.

Of course there are ltos of ways for these things not to be tried, but I think it's wildly optimistic to think that will be the case. There will be a prison crunch. Even if they do all of those things, it won't be for all the cases. There will be a apike in the prison population. Just take a look at the US charts before and after the War on Drugs.

This is our future.

[dre]

Of course there are ltos of ways for these things not to be tried, but I think it's wildly optimistic to think that will be the case. There will be a prison crunch. Even if they do all of those things, it won't be for all the cases. There will be a apike in the prison population. Just take a look at the US charts before and after the War on Drugs.

This is our future.

The problem is the prisons are all full and the provinces dont have money to build more. In BC we just got done gutting the system because we couldnt afford it. And we are still running big defecits. I honestly think the provinces will simply tell the feds to pound sand. And if they do start tossing minor drug offenders in jail then there will be a successful charter challenge. I agree... the legislation is mind numbingly stupid but knowning the state of the legal system where I live I really dont expect much to happen.

[punked]

Dude... prosecutors dont take these cases to trial. Where I live they are already letting real criminals go free because they could not get a court date in a reasonable ammount of time. And theres a whole bunch of really basic ways that the provinces can render this legislation moot. The police can not arrest (happens all the time), the presecutor can not charge or plead the case out, the judge can summarily dismiss the charges, or they can find the defendant guilty of a lesser crime.

Are you NS? I heard they just let some serial Child Molester off because he didn't get to trail fast enough? Welcome to the Harper government everyone.

[Shwa]

Are you NS?

I am not sure what this means.

I heard they just let some serial Child Molester off

You "heard." Suuure you did. Cite or it didn't happen.

because he didn't get to trail fast enough?

Was heard-about child molester already a child molester or was he an accused child molester and not convicted? Because if it was the latter, I don't think the term "child molester" your "heard" about is the correct term.

Welcome to the Harper government everyone.

Seriously? You think court cases being thrown out because of delays is a phenomenon of "the Harper government?"

Are you under 21 or something?

[Guest Manny]

I think dre is being presumptuous and naive. Fact is that pot smokers are still being charged for possession all the time. Maybe not in his area, whereverthat may be but in many many communities, small towns and even in Toronto. Just go to the provincial court on Queen street on any given day. Room 114. My cousin Alfredo was there, twice in two years. He was convicted. He had only a few grams of marihanna in his pocket, that's all! But if you don't believe me, go there and see for yourself. Court is full everyday. Almost all blacks, but not just blacks.

Here's the deal, as a young cop or crown prosecutor, you get promoted more quickly through the ranks based on the number of arrests and convictions you get. It's simple as that. And pot heads are easy pickins. They will be even easier with mandatory minimums, it's a certainty. So this is a move based on career mobility. No upwardly mobile crown prosecutor would pass up the chance.

We cannot depend on the good will of police and prosecutors, and judges. To do so would be foolish. It's the law itself that matters. And despite any tolerance in your particular area, wherever that may be, this is the direction the law is moving in. It's the writing on the wall.

[dre]

I think dre is being presumptuous and naive. Fact is that pot smokers are still being charged for possession all the time. Maybe not in his area, whereverthat may be but in many many communities, small towns and even in Toronto. Just go to the provincial court on Queen street on any given day. Room 114. My cousin Alfredo was there, twice in two years. He was convicted. He had only a few grams of marihanna in his pocket, that's all! But if you don't believe me, go there and see for yourself. Court is full everyday. Almost all blacks, but not just blacks.

Here's the deal, as a young cop or crown prosecutor, you get promoted more quickly through the ranks based on the number of arrests and convictions you get. It's simple as that. And pot heads are easy pickins. They will be even easier with mandatory minimums, it's a certainty. So this is a move based on career mobility. No upwardly mobile crown prosecutor would pass up the chance.

We cannot depend on the good will of police and prosecutors, and judges. To do so would be foolish. It's the law itself that matters. And despite any tolerance in your particular area, wherever that may be, this is the direction the law is moving in. It's the writing on the wall.

I never said we should depend on police and prosecutors and judges. I think the law is insanely stupid and unjust, and Id love it if we could stop them. But we cant.

We are counting on the legal system to either strike the law down or not enforce it.

Here's the deal, as a young cop or crown prosecutor, you get promoted more quickly through the ranks based on the number of arrests and convictions you get. It's simple as that. And pot heads are easy pickins. They will be even easier with mandatory minimums, it's a certainty.

Thats certainly how it works in the movies but in the real world the crown and defense work together to move cases through an overburdened system. Thats why so many cases get plead down to nothing. Not only do the vast majority of simple posession cases not even tried, but in most cases there isnt even arrests. And in BC where I live we are letting drunk drivers get off scott free because theres simply no room in the court system to process them.

Edited December 10, 2011 by dre

[Trial-and-Error]

Think about this. The conspiracy theory is that he US and Canada will have to join as one because of the amount of debt each country has. Well the US really has theirs but we in Canada don't ...as yet. Slowly the harmonizing of the US and Canada is coming together and Harper's spending hasn't really started..yet. Billions on jets, prisons, bridges, helping their own special groups, all going down the road to NAU. So just keep your eyes and ears open and lets see by the time the Tories are done , what exactly Canada looks like, especially the health care system.

You, Topaz, are spot on IMNSHO. Our health care system was working swimmingly in the 70's and 80's and then ever so slowly things began to change until today our health care system in no way resembles that which it once was. For my money, it has since been monkeyed with and re-designed to fail. What do people do? They get fed up and say well, this universal system of health care is no longer working, let's bring in the American system. They don't think about why it's failing; they only know they're not receiving the medical attention they feel they should. The health care industry is chomping on the bit (they're already here in B.C. and Alberta--probably in more provinces as well). If we are ever to get the health care system back on track, it will require that everybody demand a fast turn-around from the dismal failure it now is. But you know that not everyone gives a damn. Again, it all comes down to how deep your pockets are--and if they're deep enough you don't have to worry about how much health care costs. It's the old tried and true adage, divide and conquer. The sickness-for-profit industry (including the doctors most of whom are over-paid as it is) are poised for a full frontal attack coming soon.

[Guest Manny]

Thats certainly how it works in the movies but in the real world the crown and defense work together to move cases through an overburdened system. Thats why so many cases get plead down to nothing. Not only do the vast majority of simple posession cases not even tried, but in most cases there isnt even arrests.

BULLSHIT man, and I say that because I am getting pissed. Real world? what you are talking about is fucking fantasy, and my family has the criminal record to prove it. So don't you tell me I am living in TV land.

You think we should trust the cops and courts to be understanding? Complete nonsense. They will go by the book man. Maybe they let you off after you've been there the third, fourth time, I don't know, but by then it doesn't matter, once you have a criminal record the damage is done. So in no way can I ascribe to your notion that courts will be lenient and forgiving. What I'm telling you is real experience, the truth, cops get promoted by the number of arrests.

Maybe out in BC which is the most lenient situation in Canada as far as drugs, you might get off without charges. But that's going to be over now. Once you stand before the man, he HAS to sentence you. Now the only hope you have is, are they going to drop the charges. Well maybe in BC, but not anywhere else. Not in Alberta, no way in Saskatchewan, not in Manitoba. Those are far more conservative provinces. And they are planning on building a lot more prisons, to make room for your pot head ass. So don't worry, they gonna have a nice bunk bed for you and all your friends, when the time comes.

And yeah, the new law is ore lenient towards rapists and child buggers, than it is to drug addicts. So they won't mind to let them go free, and put your pot head ass in a prison cell. Because that's the way they do it in America, the drug war is a crucial part of the economy, keeping thousands of people employed. Clinton admitted it publicly, herself. Welcome to the CPC world. You better start praying now, it's about as useful as hoping for leniency from the crown!

[dre]

BULLSHIT man, and I say that because I am getting pissed. Real world? what you are talking about is fucking fantasy, and my family has the criminal record to prove it. So don't you tell me I am living in TV land.

You think we should trust the cops and courts to be understanding? Complete nonsense. They will go by the book man. Maybe they let you off after you've been there the third, fourth time, I don't know, but by then it doesn't matter, once you have a criminal record the damage is done. So in no way can I ascribe to your notion that courts will be lenient and forgiving. What I'm telling you is real experience, the truth, cops get promoted by the number of arrests.

Maybe out in BC which is the most lenient situation in Canada as far as drugs, you might get off without charges. But that's going to be over now. Once you stand before the man, he HAS to sentence you. Now the only hope you have is, are they going to drop the charges. Well maybe in BC, but not anywhere else. Not in Alberta, no way in Saskatchewan, not in Manitoba. Those are far more conservative provinces. And they are planning on building a lot more prisons, to make room for your pot head ass. So don't worry, they gonna have a nice bunk bed for you and all your friends, when the time comes.

And yeah, the new law is ore lenient towards rapists and child buggers, than it is to drug addicts. So they won't mind to let them go free, and put your pot head ass in a prison cell. Because that's the way they do it in America, the drug war is a crucial part of the economy, keeping thousands of people employed. Clinton admitted it publicly, herself. Welcome to the CPC world. You better start praying now, it's about as useful as hoping for leniency from the crown!

You think we should trust the cops and courts to be understanding?

Not sure why you would repeat that... Id rather just not have the law at all, but it doesnt look like thats an option. So we really have no choice but to hope the courts finds a way to scuttle it.