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Protest against the LCBO -- Liquor Control Board of Ontario


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Fools. Do not think your province is the center of the universe. Research into what other provinces have done. Countries.... etc. Why don't you actually research into alcohol not being bad for you? Open your mind.

Alcohol and other things are bad for you if you abuse them, just look at the mayor of TO. Too much alcohol can destroy brain cells and your liver.

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Alberta privatized retail liquor sales 20 years ago. There are many privately owned stores now, and the selection of products is far, far more than in the old days.

I think the only people who don't agree with privatization here would be members of Alberta Union of Public Employees.

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Not to mention no real end user savings.

Ergo....keep the LCBO

I think the LCBO Does a better job serving the larger centers. The LCBO does not do as well in smaller centers. The hours are terrible. With the hours I work, it is hard to get there during the week.

Still not sure why we have Beer Stores. Not sure why it is OK to have a large foreign company sell us booze, but not allow small local guy's do it. The Beer store does a horrible job at everything in this area.

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I think the LCBO Does a better job serving the larger centers. The LCBO does not do as well in smaller centers. The hours are terrible. With the hours I work, it is hard to get there during the week.

Still not sure why we have Beer Stores. Not sure why it is OK to have a large foreign company sell us booze, but not allow small local guy's do it. The Beer store does a horrible job at everything in this area.

Beer Stores were started to protect Ontario brewers from foreign competition.

Yes, this is irony.

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I think the LCBO Does a better job serving the larger centers. The LCBO does not do as well in smaller centers. The hours are terrible. With the hours I work, it is hard to get there during the week.

I would request where the smaller centres are you describe. Even in Cottage country I have the full lux LCBO in Huntsville , pass 2 more on way up, and have the local Indepenedant Grocer as an LCBO outlet (small section mind you)

Any small centre will have even less selection if we cut the LCBO out.

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Not to mention no real end user savings.

Ergo....keep the LCBO

Incorrect. If the AB govt had kept the old model, their overall profit would be dramatically reduced and hence less net revenue. Since enduser is another word for taxpayer, there is indeed a direct benefit. Of course, there is far more convenience to consumers through vastly more choice in both products and retail outlets, and more jobs. Those jobs are at market value, not at $50 to $60k per year plus fat benefits plus hefty public service pensions for cashiers and warehouse workers.

I say again: absolutely the ONLY people here who would favour a return to the expensive, needless nonsense of govt run liquor retailing are Alberta Union of Public Employee members.

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I would request where the smaller centres are you describe. Even in Cottage country I have the full lux LCBO in Huntsville , pass 2 more on way up, and have the local Indepenedant Grocer as an LCBO outlet (small section mind you)

Any small centre will have even less selection if we cut the LCBO out.

That is not at all what happened with Alberta privatization.

The number of govt outlets in 1993 was 208, now there are about 2000 outlets.

The number of products available then was about 2200, now it is around 15,000.

Selection is much greater even in smaller stores, and there are far more stores overall with hours determined by their business license, not a collective bargaining agreement.

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Many are open to 10PM , Sundays til 6PM .

Every other civilized place does NOT sell around the clock.

My wife an I were going to go play cards at a friends on a Sunday a few weeks ago and I was embarrassed to show up empty handed because the LCBO closed at 5pm. Sure I probably should have known but would it be the end of civilization if I could go to the Daisey Mart nearby and buy a 6-pack?

Every other civilized place on earth allows round the clock access to alcohol.

Embarressed because you had none or because you were to lazy to get to the store on time. That is your problem not the government. I was passing thru griffith last sun at 5:30 pm and stopped at one, and that is in the middle of nowhere.

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Embarressed because you had none or because you were to lazy to get to the store on time. That is your problem not the government. I was passing thru griffith last sun at 5:30 pm and stopped at one, and that is in the middle of nowhere.

Odd to see an ostensible conservative in support of a state-owned monopoly.

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The LCBO continues to be one of the best paid Crown Agencies.

There is a website about the Ontario Sunshine List that someone made that allows you to a) search anyone's name (as far back as 1996) but more interestingly, you can search for positions, or employers (like the LCBO) and see what the average raise was each year, and a bunch of other stuff. Not surprisingly, the LCBO is towards the top. You can also find the top earners at the LCBO.

If you are interested in this sort of stuff, the link is: http://www.ontariosunshinelist.com

To see all the stats about the LCBO, go to "View Key Metrics" then "By Employer" then enter LCBO.

Thoughts?

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Overthere , comparing the # of stores then and now is fruitless. No one denies they opened it up, as did every toher province and Alta is no diff.

More stores but there is definitely less choice than the mega store LCBO we have. Cannot compare.

It is not fruitless at all, as service to consumers everywhere in the province is vastly better with a privatized system in Alberta. That is EVERYWHERE, not just those few thaty live nearby some centralized magastore.

Far more stores and far, far more selection within stores

Another major upgrade is the emergence of speciality stores. One nearby has around 600 brands of beer, another has a vast array of Scotch, several specialize in high end wines, others in high end spirits.

Greatly expanded numbers of stores (by 10 times),an immensely greater number of products on the shelves are two benefits available to consumers enjoy that were simply unavailable under the old system.

Try again.

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It is not fruitless at all, as service to consumers everywhere in the province is vastly better with a privatized system in Alberta. That is EVERYWHERE, not just those few thaty live nearby some centralized magastore.

Far more stores and far, far more selection within stores

Another major upgrade is the emergence of speciality stores. One nearby has around 600 brands of beer, another has a vast array of Scotch, several specialize in high end wines, others in high end spirits.

Greatly expanded numbers of stores (by 10 times),an immensely greater number of products on the shelves are two benefits available to consumers enjoy that were simply unavailable under the old system.

Try again.

Sadly you cannot discern that had Alta kept in the retail end of things they would have opened up many more stores just like the LCBO did.

It bolsters your argument using old data but reality is the Alta LCB would have modernized, not kept the same shitty 20 stores they had.

Ergo fruitless.....try again.

Not to mention you have less selection than an LCBO store.

Edited by Guyser2
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Sadly you cannot discern that had Alta kept in the retail end of things they would have opened up many more stores just like the LCBO did.

It bolsters your argument using old data but reality is the Alta LCB would have modernized, not kept the same shitty 20 stores they had.

Ergo fruitless.....try again.

Not to mention you have less selection than an LCBO store.

Nope.

What Alberta did was ditch thousands of unproductive, overpaid employees and (BONUD) their plump benefit packages and really large lifetime pensions. Plus they did not have to invest hundreds of millions in new stores, repair the old ones or 'modernize' any of the real property deadweight the LCBO is burdened with.

I guess you did not read the stat that the products on the shelves have gone from 2200 to around 15,000 with privatization.

There is absolutely no way the AB govt would have increased the number of their stores from 200 to 2000. None. Zero.

Oh, and they kept the profits while flushing the risk. Neatly done.

Even the NDP here never talk about going back to the dinosaur days prior to privatization.

I can see you have no interest in reality or actual facts and figures that demonstrate a success story(except for the public sector unions), but do carry on......

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B

Beer, wine, and liquor sales across this country needs to be privatized. Our archaic system is not solving any problems whatsoever and it actually makes it more difficult for responsible drinkers and connoisseurs to get their hands on new and different things. I, for one, really enjoy trying various microbrews from around the world; however, i have to really hunt to get my hands on good stuff, if I can at all.

In BC, we have a mixture of BCL's and private liquor stores. The private stores generally cost more, and partial privatization has not resulted in better variety or lower prices.

It HAS however resulted in more convenience. I shop at the private shop down the street because its way closer, and I waste less time and diesel, and I have a crush on one of the girls that works the till.

As an aside... revenue from the government shops is the chief source of funding for alcohol health education.

I must note... BC has some of the highest liquor prices on earth, and partial privatization does not seem to have brought costs down. Most of the private stores seem to be trying to provide convenience, not low prices. In my town they are mostly small shops... 600-1000 square feet. And when they do manage to offer prices on par with the government liquor store its a big thing and youll see a big sign that says "Liquor store prices!!!!".

Edited by dre
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. Plus they did not have to invest hundreds of millions in new stores, repair the old ones or 'modernize' any of the real property deadweight the LCBO is burdened with.

If they are so profitable, and they are...maybe you can explain 'deadweight' ?

I guess you did not read the stat that the products on the shelves have gone from 2200 to around 15,000 with privatization.

Sure I did, but I also know that ALCB would not have remained static. (LCBO has 23,000 products)

There is absolutely no way the AB govt would have increased the number of their stores from 200 to 2000. None. Zero.

Oh, and they kept the profits while flushing the risk. Neatly done.

Mow you are making statements that carry no weight. You have no idea if they would, perhaps they would have opened mega stores and then satellite stores or some iteration of that, but to say 'no way' only suggests those that would have run it are some backwood western bumpkins.

On the whole, they would have done similar to what Ont did, get with the future and broaden the stores, re-make them, bring in new products.

I can see you have no interest in reality or actual facts and figures that demonstrate a success story(except for the public sector unions), but do carry on......

Considering you have no facts to back you up, and an overwhelming propensity to make up the future......

In the end, you don't pay any less than Ont does for booze. We should pay less considering the buying power the LCBO has and that is my biggest gripe against them.

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"In BC, we have a mixture of BCL's and private liquor stores. The private stores generally cost more, and partial privatization has not resulted in better variety or lower prices."

Thats a classic scenario for govt 'privatization' schemes. It's a doomed scenario. I bet there are many bureaucrats and 'stkeholders (menaing union members) who will make sure it won't work. An old, tired script.

"If they are so profitable, and they are...maybe you can explain 'deadweight' ?"

I already did a couple times, but I can see you need repetition.

You have a large govt enterprise in expensive owned or leased buildings with an overpaid workforce with fat benefit packages and even fatter pension liabilities. You cannot change that without the investment of a lot of political capital and considerable spine. You will pay for those extraordinary costs forever. Alberta will not, they have eliminated that risk and certain heavy liability to taxpayers. The govt still retains the wholesale end, where the profit resides, there is little capital investment required, and risk to taxpayers is minimized. Perhaps you could read something independently since you refuse to understand any other way.

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Best keep up when dropping Premier Father bon mots.....you can walk around a festival w a beer now. The law was changed

You can't around here, so I don't know where you are getting your info. Now right across the quebec border , you can walk thru the midway with a open beer. Try that here guyser and see what happens. And while you are at it guyser go out in your boat with a pint and see what happens then do the same in quebec.

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You can't around here, so I don't know where you are getting your info. Now right across the quebec border , you can walk thru the midway with a open beer. Try that here guyser and see what happens. And while you are at it guyser go out in your boat with a pint and see what happens then do the same in quebec.

As usual one must try and decipher whatever you write.

But yes, the law was changed, and if you live in Ontario you can do what you apparently think one cannot do.

As for the rest, I can have a pint in lots of boats.....never said you couldn't.

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"If they are so profitable, and they are...maybe you can explain 'deadweight' ?"

I already did a couple times, but I can see you need repetition.

You didn't, but that's okay, wouldn't expect any in depth on an issue that doesn't exist anyhow.

You have a large govt enterprise in expensive owned or leased buildings with an overpaid workforce with fat benefit packages and even fatter pension liabilities. You cannot change that without the investment of a lot of political capital and considerable spine. You will pay for those extraordinary costs forever. Alberta will not, they have eliminated that risk and certain heavy liability to taxpayers. The govt still retains the wholesale end, where the profit resides, there is little capital investment required, and risk to taxpayers is minimized. Perhaps you could read something independently since you refuse to understand any other way.

$1.2 Billion in profit. 'nuff said.

Still don't pay any less than we do......

All those savings and not a drop to you. Maybe you should have a wee chat w the ALCB . I will play bloated prices (same as you) and allow the govt to reap the benefit for the rest of the province.

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