The Defacto Official NFL Thead (was 'Tim Tebow WTH?')

[kimmy]

The Seahawks spotted the Panthers a 31 point lead, and couldn't make it all the way back. A tale of two halves. "It was the best of halfs, it was the worst of halves."

A really boring game in Denver. Peyton looked terrible, up until the fourth quarter, when he regained consciousness long enough to put together a touchdown drive to seal it. I don't think I've ever been so bored during a very close game.

-k

[Boges]

On the very first drive in overtime, Cardinals veteran Larry Fitzgerald catches a short pass and runs all the way to the Packers 4 yard line, then scores the game winning touchdown on a shovel pass from the backfield 2 plays later. Rodgers didn't get a chance to answer back, because that's how NFL overtime works. I don't understand why a TD on the opening drive is immediately lights out, while teams get a chance to answer back to other scores. But, that's the rules.

It used to be sudden death with a field goal. The compromise was that getting to the 25 yard line and kicking a FG shouldn't equate to winning the game but getting a TD means you've done enough to win. It's meant to be sudden death except for a FG.

Otherwise just use the Shootout model that the CFL and College Football use where each team gets the ball at the 25 yard line and go from there. That model actually doesn't seem like real football to me.

Interesting that people are upset about the new OT rules when it means a guy who just threw a Hail Mary never touches the ball again, but when Tim Tebow beat the Steelers on a quick TD drive in 2011, no one said anything.

[kimmy]

Probably lots of people said the same in 2011. Sudden death is great for hockey, but for a game like football or baseball, not so much. In tennis or volleyball when it gets to the tiebreaker, you have to win by two... somebody has to break the other guy's serve before they win. I kind of feel like if a team gets scored on without having a possession of their own, they should get a chance to "hold serve". The way things were clicking for Rodgers at the end, it seemed like they might have scored if they'd won the coin toss too, so you're left wondering if the coin-toss decided the outcome. Which is a terrible way for a championship game to be decided.

I don't mind the outcome, though-- I was pulling for the Cardinals, they've been a hard-luck team for a long time, and I'm kind of sick of the Packers.

-k

[kimmy]

I think the Panthers will win today.

Denver's defense looked really strong against New England, but the Panthers seem like a whole different kind of trouble. Unless you could find Tom Brady's equipment guy and get him to fill the balls with kryptonite before the game, I'm not sure how you go about stopping Cam Newton.

The Denver offense has been "good enough" to give their defense a chance to win each post-season game they've played. Manning has put up enough points to win with a defense like that. He has avoided making turn-overs that put the defense in a bad situation. He has gotten enough first downs to buy the defense time to rest. That's all they've needed from him.. the defense has done the rest. But today I don't think "good enough" is good enough. The Broncos will need more from their offense, and I don't think Manning has it in him anymore.

-k

[Boges]

I think the Panthers will win today.

Denver's defense looked really strong against New England, but the Panthers seem like a whole different kind of trouble. Unless you could find Tom Brady's equipment guy and get him to fill the balls with kryptonite before the game, I'm not sure how you go about stopping Cam Newton.

The Denver offense has been "good enough" to give their defense a chance to win each post-season game they've played. Manning has put up enough points to win with a defense like that. He has avoided making turn-overs that put the defense in a bad situation. He has gotten enough first downs to buy the defense time to rest. That's all they've needed from him.. the defense has done the rest. But today I don't think "good enough" is good enough. The Broncos will need more from their offense, and I don't think Manning has it in him anymore.

-k

I thought the same thing. Most people did. Turns out the Denver D was that good and didn't need much from Peyton.

First Super Bowl winning team that produced less than 200 yards of offense.

Peyton gets his second Superb Owl but was a minor factor in the win.

[Boges]

Look who's back in the News!!!!

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/watch-tim-tebow-shows-off-skills-mlb-workout/

By all accounts he fared well exhibiting his baseball skills. It's likely at least one team will sign him, if not to draw attention to their minor league club. Similar to what happened with Micheal Jordan in the mid-90's.

Tebow's plight is a fascinating one. He's arguably one of the most successful CFB QBs in the history of the sport, but he's a lightning rod because people either love him because he's not shy to talk about his faith or hate him for it. He's also objectively good looking, so women love him regardless of his faith.

I think he got a raw deal in the NFL, he's not a prototypical NFL QB, but there are much worse QBs in the league. Teams just didn't want to take on the baggage of a player that garners so much attention, when that player wouldn't be essential to the team's success. This was similar to the plight of Micheal Sam, the first Pro Football player to come out as Gay.

The vitriol and the love keep his interest going for media organizations.

I can see his A or AA games being nationally televised in the future.

[msj]

He was not very good. Go ahead and look up his stats on football outsiders.

His looks won't help him play any better and being better than the worst QB's in the league is not a glowing reference.

Sure, maybe if he shut up and kept his religious crap to himself then maybe he would still be in the league.

But PITA players need a hell of a lot of talent so that other coaches/players will tolerate them.

He just doesn't have it so why go to all the trouble?

[Boges]

We're going to see what happens with Colin Kapernick now that he's not really all that good anymore, but making waves for a political stance.

It's no surprise that athletes try not to give political opinions, because it effects their future prospects if they're not amongst the best in their sport.

Tebow's religion made him very popular as well. To the point that fans wanted him to start regardless of his stats.

But his football career doesn't reflect on his ability to play baseball.

[Guest]

Jordan was well liked by his teammates during his minor league circus; which, is understandable due to his legendary basketball status and the fact that he personally paid for a high end motor coach and upgraded meals during his stint. I wonder how Tebow's teammates will regard his sideshow status.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Guest

[Boges]

Jordan was well liked by his teammates during his minor league circus; which, is understandable due to his legendary basketball status and the fact that he personally paid for a high end motor coach and upgraded meals during his stint. I wonder how Tebow's teammates will regard his sideshow status.

It would be equally a sideshow to what happened with Jordan, especially when he plays in Florida. Tebow can make better money doing a variety of things. I'm sure he'll have the means to pay more than his way. There's no evidence that Tebow has been anything but a great teammate in his football career.

[Boges]

JoDo has Tebow's back!

http://www.12up.com/posts/3705449-last-year-s-mvp-had-very-high-praise-for-tim-tebow?a_aid=40030

Josh Donaldson

✔@BringerOfRain20

I love the fact @TimTebow wants to play baseball. Looks like a left handed version of Jeff Bagwell. #mlb#tebowdroppintankstime

[Boges]

http://www.guitargurutees.com/products/2/24487536.png

[Boges]

I guess this thread is also the defacto NFL thread.

Any thought to the idea that Tom Brady may not be arguably the best QB in NFL history when the Patriots can go 3-0 fielding QBs that have never had meaningful snaps in the NFL previously. 2 of the wins coming against playoff teams last year and the other being a divisional match against a team that had beat them at least once the last few previous years.

I don't know what world The Hoody sees the world where he can coach up even the most mediocre players to be great.

[msj]

How odd.

I would think a better metric would be to look at a QB's performance based on the plays he is involved in.

Bigger sample size and also more specific to the player than to the team.

Looking through footballoutsiders stats I see Brady tends to rank in the top 10 (and often in the top 5) over long periods of time so pretty sure one can conclude he is a better than average QB.

But hey, keep looking at a team's win/loss record as if it correlates better to one player's talent....

[Boges]

How odd.

I would think a better metric would be to look at a QB's performance based on the plays he is involved in.

Bigger sample size and also more specific to the player than to the team.

Looking through footballoutsiders stats I see Brady tends to rank in the top 10 (and often in the top 5) over long periods of time so pretty sure one can conclude he is a better than average QB.

But hey, keep looking at a team's win/loss record as if it correlates better to one player's talent....

But we've never seen Brady outside of the system he's in. Could he just be the most successful System QB in the history of the sport?

Obviously we won't know from 3 weeks without him. I doubt anyone thought the Patriots would be THIS successful without Brady.

The one time he was gone for a year, the Patriots did still finish 11-5 even though it was the one year they missed the playoffs because of the Miami Dolphins Wildcat craze. The QB that season, Matt Cassells, was never an elite QB once he left.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Boges

[msj]

If you think Cassel was good then I wonder what you think of Jason Campbell or David Garrard, both of whom played better than Cassel: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2008

I will also note that Cassel played better for KC in 2010 than he did in 2008 for NE: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2010

Again, QB's may be important to winning games but to judge a QB based on a team's winning record rather than based on the snaps that the QB actually takes makes for a poor argument.

So who knows how much is coaching, the other players (offensive linemen in particular), or the QB himself that leads to great QB play.

------------

And for those who don't know - Cassel played just slightly above average in 2008 for NE and was about 8.4% above average for KC in 2010.

So, at his best we was just above average.

Edited September 23, 2016 by msj

[Michael Hardner]

I guess this thread is also the defacto NFL thread.

Ok... done.

[Cum Laude]

But we've never seen Brady outside of the system he's in. Could he just be the most successful System QB in the history of the sport?

Obviously we won't know from 3 weeks without him. I doubt anyone thought the Patriots would be THIS successful without Brady.

The one time he was gone for a year, the Patriots did still finish 11-5 even though it was the one year they missed the playoffs because of the Miami Dolphins Wildcat craze. The QB that season, Matt Cassells, was never an elite QB once he left.

Canadians sure love their American football. It's hard to get excited about the third tier goofy canadian league, eh?

[Boges]

Can I point out quickly that Aaron Schatz, msj's God at Football Outsiders, has my Miami Dolphins making the playoffs this season. 

BETTER BE RIGHT!!!!

[msj]

He's not a god. He's a guy who observes football in a systemic evidence based way so he can talk about the game in an intelligent, probability based way. 

Which is much more intelligent than 99.99% of the sports media out there. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by msj

[kimmy]

The Atlanta Falcons put a serious beating on the Packers today!

I'm not particularly interested in the Falcons, but I do get a little tired of seeing the same handful of teams-- Patriots, Steelers, Packers, Seahawks, Broncos-- in the post season every year, so seeing somebody new rise up is a nice change.

 -k

[Boges]

Eff the Patriots. I may not watch just to protest their ability to win by fielding a receiver that's been cut by 5 teams and a running back that go cut by the Cleveland Browns. 

Edited January 23, 2017 by Boges

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Boges said:

Eff the Patriots. I may not watch just to protest their ability to win by fielding a receiver that's been cut by 5 teams and a running back that go cut by the Cleveland Browns. 

I know nothing at all about American Football, but wouldn't that just be down to good coaching?

Edited January 23, 2017 by bcsapper

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I know nothing at all about American Football, but wouldn't that just be down to good coaching?

Or witchcraft, dunno. 

The Patriots ability to win, no matter who they put on the field is perplexing. Yeah they have Tom Brady, but he's 39!!!! It's like a Bob Kraft met with a Necromancer in the late 90's. 

Edited January 23, 2017 by Boges

[Guest]

Just now, Boges said:

Or witchcraft, dunno. 

The Patriots ability to win, no matter who they put on the field is perplexing. Yeah they have Tom Brady, and he's 39!!!! It's like a Bob Kraft met with a Necromancer in the late 90's. 

I think I misinterpreted the intent of your comment.  I see what you're saying now.