For Conservatives, contrary positions are treasonous

[Shwa]

Tim Harper: For Conservatives, contrary positions are treasonous

Megan Leslie slipped back north of the 49th parallel under the cover of darkness Wednesday night.

The country was still functioning.

No one slapped cuffs on her at the Ottawa airport.

But to hear the noise from the Conservative side of the House of Commons this week, one would think that the Halifax NDP MP and her colleague from Nickel Belt, Claude Gravelle, were treasonous subversives who should be drawn and quartered at dawn.

Their crime?

They went to Washington to provide a different point of view on the Keystone XL pipeline project and to tell American legislators that, contrary to the cheerleading of Stephen Harper and his cabinet, not every Canadian was a proponent of Alberta’s tar sands.

The absurd reaction from the perpetually angry Conservatives immediately raised the profile of the traitorous duo that otherwise might have flown into Washington and back without anyone noticing.

This kind of reminds me of the Great Whale River hydroelectric project in Northern Quebec that was successfully kyboshed by the Cree in the early 90's.

Environment Minister Peter Kent accused them of taking “the treacherous course of leaving the domestic debate and heading abroad to attack a legitimate Canadian resource which is being responsibly developed and regulated.’’

Oh, the treachery. Oh well. When the government shows that they are more than willing to shut down debate and not try and reach consensus on issues before Parliament, ya makes yer bed and ya sleeps in it.

As the NDP reminded the Commons this week, Harper’s complaints ring a tad hollow considering he used the Fox News pulpit in 2003 to accuse then-Prime Minister Jean Chrétien of hypocrisy for keeping Canada out of the George W. Bush-led invasion of Iraq.

Then the opposition leader, he told Americans he backed the war and was speaking for “the silent majority” of Canadians.

In 1997, as vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, Harper at least stayed in the country when he told the U.S. Council for National Policy that Canada was “a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it.”

Well that was 14 years ago, I am sure PM Harper has warmed the cockles of his heart towards his country by now.

He has... right?

[CPCFTW]

NDP goes to Washington to beg them to kill Canadian jobs and this is The Star's story?

Edited November 18, 2011 by CPCFTW

[SF/PF]

NDP goes to Washington to beg them to kill Canadian jobs and this is The Star's story?

In the long term, there is nothing more disastrous to Canadian job prospects in the Oilsands than building export pipelines for raw resources.

[CPCFTW]

In the long term, there is nothing more disastrous to Canadian job prospects in the Oilsands than building export pipelines for raw resources.

Is that what the consensus media told you?

[SF/PF]

Is that what the consensus media told you?

No, its what my experience as a front line worker in the Oilsands tells me.

Also, a basic understanding of the manpower requirement differences between pipelines/extraction plants and refineries/upgraders yields the same answer.

[CPCFTW]

No, its what my experience as a front line worker in the Oilsands tells me.

Also, a basic understanding of the manpower requirement differences between pipelines/extraction plants and refineries/upgraders yields the same answer.

Funny how most other front line Oilsands workers voted for the CPC. I guess their experience was a bit different than yours.

[SF/PF]

Funny how most other front line Oilsands workers voted for the CPC. I guess their experience was a bit different than yours.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that the federal election was a direct referendum on oilsands development and exports.

At any rate, good non-reply!

[TimG]

Oh, the treachery. Oh well. When the government shows that they are more than willing to shut down debate and not try and reach consensus on issues before Parliament, ya makes yer bed and ya sleeps in it.

Yawn. Yet you have no critism for libs and ndp types who role out the 'anti-canadian' label whenever someone opposes their policies ideas. Spare us your hypocrisy.

[The_Squid]

Good for the NDP members. They speak the truth... this gov't isn't a big fan of facts and truths, as we have seen over and over again.

[noahbody]

Has Megan Leslie taken a tour of the Oil Sands?

[jacee]

No, its what my experience as a front line worker in the Oilsands tells me.

Also, a basic understanding of the manpower requirement differences between pipelines/extraction plants and refineries/upgraders yields the same answer.

Thanks for that perspective SF/PF. It's one that's been missing here and we tend to assume that all oil workers agree with the company line that fast profit through pipelines is the only way to go.

As an Ontario taxpayer, I'd be interested in looking at the possibility of putting some Ontario money into development of refining and manufacturing facilities out there with some profit-making potential for Ontario, and some jobs assured for our unemployed workers.

As for "treason" ... well ... that's just Harper the CEOwannabe whining because he can't fire the people who disagree with him. His idea of 'democracy' is that once he's 'in', ALL Canadians must pay fealty to him because he's the boss.

I do wonder sometimes why someone so obviously an autocrat would make democracy his career. Unfortunately, I've concluded that his purpose is not to uphold democracy, but to subvert democracy to corporate purposes.

The pipeline (or not) is a prime example of that: Instead of looking to the long term and what's best for the largest number of Canadians - ie, refining, manufacturing, value-added - he's putting all his efforts into pipelining short-term profits to the oil corps.

That's not what's best for Canada or for Canadians.

Edited November 18, 2011 by jacee

[noahbody]

As for "treason" ... well ... that's just Harper

It is just Harper... Tim Harper. Stephen Harper didn't label their actions "treason."

His idea of 'democracy' is that once he's 'in', ALL Canadians must pay fealty to him because he's the boss.

He ran on a platform. Canadians voted for it. That's democracy. Are the NDP respecting democracy? No.

Unfortunately, I've concluded that his purpose is not to uphold democracy, but to subvert democracy to corporate purposes.

Again, it's the NDP that's not respecting the wishes of the majority of Canadians. Everything from health care to education relies on the economy. When the pipeline goes though, it will create jobs in various sectors of the economy, not just the Oil and Gas Industry.

The pipeline (or not) is a prime example of that: Instead of looking to the long term and what's best for the largest number of Canadians - ie, refining, manufacturing, value-added - he's putting all his efforts into pipelining short-term profits to the oil corps.

Health care, education, social programs are what affect the largest number of Canadians. Sure it will help oil corporations (owned by shareholders who are average tax paying Canadians) too.

That's not what's best for Canada or for Canadians.

Unfortunately, none of the things I mentioned can operate on warm fuzzy feelings.

[Shwa]

Yawn. Yet you have no critism for libs and ndp types who role out the 'anti-canadian' label whenever someone opposes their policies ideas. Spare us your hypocrisy.

I think you quoted the wrong passage in my post to make your point, but... no surprise.

However, the statement you DID quote applies equally to any "government" regardless of political affiliation.

There, you all better now Tim?

I don't appreciate any federal politician spouting off anti-Canadian garbage, but I do find it odd that the sitting government would throw such language at the opposition when it is well known that their leader has done much worse in the past. Which I think is the one of the points made in the article.

[Shwa]

He ran on a platform. Canadians voted for it. That's democracy. Are the NDP respecting democracy? No.

So representing the interests of their constituents is not democracy? Oh dear.

Again, it's the NDP that's not respecting the wishes of the majority of Canadians. Everything from health care to education relies on the economy. When the pipeline goes though, it will create jobs in various sectors of the economy, not just the Oil and Gas Industry.

How are the NDP "not respecting the wishes of the majority of Canadians" on this issue? Has the government offered to put themselves on the line with a national referendum on the matter?

[wyly]

In the long term, there is nothing more disastrous to Canadian job prospects in the Oilsands than building export pipelines for raw resources

that struck me as extremly stupid as well...once the pipeline is built the jobs are gone...refine the product here and the jobs stay here...conservatives arent the smart fiscal planners they think they are...

[noahbody]

So representing the interests of their constituents is not democracy? Oh dear.

It's not respecting Canadian democracy, no. They're to represent their constituents in Parliament. Taking their minority view outside of the country to try to sabotage the will of the majority should never happen.

[Topaz]

So what the Tories and their supporters are saying is the NDP and any other party or Canadian that cared about the environment and went to the the US to have their say, don't care about Canada and the action is like treason??? I think if canadian had a vote on this, along with the rest of the world, the Tories would be a laughing stock, a joke, which they are among other things.

[cybercoma]

Where's bambino on this topic?

[olp1fan]

anything that makes Harpers job more difficult is good in my booko

[Shwa]

It's not respecting Canadian democracy, no. They're to represent their constituents in Parliament. Taking their minority view outside of the country to try to sabotage the will of the majority should never happen.

As the NDP reminded the Commons this week, Harper’s complaints ring a tad hollow considering he used the Fox News pulpit in 2003 to accuse then-Prime Minister Jean Chrétien of hypocrisy for keeping Canada out of the George W. Bush-led invasion of Iraq.

Then the opposition leader, he told Americans he backed the war and was speaking for “the silent majority” of Canadians.

Well, they are just following PM Harper's example then aren't they?

However, unless you can find some legality as to why they shouldn't represent their constituents - a considerable sum of them too - outside of the country, then the issue is a moral one buffered by opinion only. And on that stand, again, refer to the example given by PM Harper in 2003.

I mean, what is the goverment afraid of? That someone in the US might listen to those minority reasons?

[Battletoads]

He ran on a platform. Canadians voted for it. That's democracy. Are the NDP respecting democracy? No.

How is representing the interests of your constituents disrespecting democracy?

[noahbody]

Well, they are just following PM Harper's example then aren't they?

Not going to Iraq was an autonomous decision. What the NDP is doing is trying to sabotage Canadian government business by meeting with and trying to influence the decision makers.

[Argus]

No, its what my experience as a front line worker in the Oilsands tells me.

Also, a basic understanding of the manpower requirement differences between pipelines/extraction plants and refineries/upgraders yields the same answer.

I'm all for us refining it here, but at the same time, we are an exporting nation. Anyone who goes to our major (only) client and tells them not to buy from us isn't doing so from a standpoint of patriotism but zealotry.

[Shwa]

Not going to Iraq was an autonomous decision. What the NDP is doing is trying to sabotage Canadian government business by meeting with and trying to influence the decision makers.

Really? How so?

Are you saying it is merely the devil in the details then?

[Argus]

Good for the NDP members. They speak the truth... this gov't isn't a big fan of facts and truths, as we have seen over and over again.

They're a big fan of an export industry which is driving our economy, though.

But clearly, the NDP doesn't care about jobs or the economy.