Guest American Woman Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) You don't think it's relevant when a pair of millionaires born with silver spoons in their mouths want to reduce benefits for the poor while cutting taxes to themselves? Of course it's relevant to a lot of Americans - and it becomes even more relevant if said millionaires paid in a lower tax bracket than they did - which could very well be the reason Romney isn't releasing his tax records. Edited August 13, 2012 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Why are we broke, when GDP per capital continues to climb ? When peoples' salaries are plunging, and they're making more demands on government is it surprising that there is more demand for benefits, especially during a recession ? Taxes aren't punishment, they're a tithe. There's an amount that needs to be paid to keep a country functioning well. Taxes can't be zero. Even if they were zero, by your argument people would have to pool resources in order to pay to subsidize companies that create jobs. The majority of the western world is broke because we're wanting things that we can't pay for. When debt is climbing faster than gdp, that's a big problem. Nobody is suggesting zero taxes. But the levels that some people suggest are absurd. 50 cents on the dollar and above? That's proposterous. Anything above 30 percent is punishment. If you were working for 50 cents on the dollar and there was a legal way to pay less wouldn't you take it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted August 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 The majority of the western world is broke because we're wanting things that we can't pay for. When debt is climbing faster than gdp, that's a big problem. Nobody is suggesting zero taxes. But the levels that some people suggest are absurd. 50 cents on the dollar and above? That's proposterous. Anything above 30 percent is punishment. If you were working for 50 cents on the dollar and there was a legal way to pay less wouldn't you take it? So, we have to engage in a massive cut of benefits to go along with the cut of wages it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 So, we have to engage in a massive cut of benefits to go along with the cut of wages it seems. as well as cuts in taxes (revenue) to fund these programs.... hmmm... how does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 You're broke? You're poor? You mean the United States can't afford its already miserly 'entitlements' because it's not a rich country like Russia or Cuba or Canada or Germany or Norway or Switzerland or... When your x trillion dollars in debt, the writing is on the wall. The debts have to be paid or the bond vultures start circling or worse your money is worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Nobody is suggesting zero taxes. But the levels that some people suggest are absurd. 50 cents on the dollar and above? That's proposterous. Anything above 30 percent is punishment. If you were working for 50 cents on the dollar and there was a legal way to pay less wouldn't you take it? They pay a lot higher than that in Sweden and I haven't noticed a lot of Swedish refugees washing up on Newfoundland in rusted old boats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 When your x trillion dollars in debt, the writing is on the wall. The debts have to be paid or the bond vultures start circling or worse your money is worthless. Yeah, which means people need to start paying freaking taxes again! Remove all those tax cuts and put the taxes back the way they were in Clinton's time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 They pay a lot higher than that in Sweden and I haven't noticed a lot of Swedish refugees washing up on Newfoundland in rusted old boats. Funny thing about sweden, they elected a centre right govt which has job creation as its priority, no stimulus spending and tax cuts. Now why would sweden be copying us? And they pay a lot less in SK and Alberta and they've put the canadian economy on their backs. They also pay high tax in venezuela and the rich can't leave fast enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Yeah, which means people need to start paying freaking taxes again! Remove all those tax cuts and put the taxes back the way they were in Clinton's time. How about a 25 percent flat tax and a 5 percent consumption tax. No loopholes. The rich still pay more and everyone who uses services pays. Chickens done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 How about a 25 percent flat tax and a 5 percent consumption tax. No loopholes. The rich still pay more and everyone who uses services pays. Chickens done! Nope. There's a reason for the graduated income tax scale (and it's not to give the rich a tax break). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted August 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Raise the tax on the poor and lower it on the rich ? That hasn't been workIng so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Yeah, which means people need to start paying freaking taxes again! People are paying taxes. The problem is, that when you have government spending at a record rate, chewing up a record amount of GDP unseen since WWII, no amount of taxes is going to make up for it, unless entitlement programs are reformed. Unless you wanna raise a trillion dollars worth of taxes each year on an economy that's already struggling to grow. You'd end up driving it into recession, and losing any gains in revenue that you'd get with your taxes. It's not rocket science. Remove all those tax cuts and put the taxes back the way they were in Clinton's time. Which tax cuts? You could raise the top rate to what it was during the Clinton administration, and you'd get a whopping $70 billion dollars a year. The deficit is over a trillion. Do the math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Raise the tax on the poor and lower it on the rich ? That hasn't been workIng so well. Thw poor don't pay any incomes taxes. The top 1% pay almost 40% of all income taxes paid to the government. The top 20% of income earners pay almost 86% of all income taxes. So I'm not sure what you're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 No his family already knows he is a millionaire. It seems you are the only one in the world who doesn't know. Playing the fool again Shady? Ryan the Rich man Yes, Paul Ryan is so wealthy that he sleeps on a cot in his office in Washington to save money: http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/08/13/10-things-we-learned-about-paul-ryan-this-weekend/ He sleeps in his office during his four-day workweek in Washington, D.C. He maintains his real home in Janesville, Wisconsin, with his wife and three kids. Highfalutin or what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Remove all those tax cuts and put the taxes back the way they were in Clinton's time. Oh, and speaking of Clinton... Paul Ryan Talks With Bill Clinton on Entitlement Reform Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Yes, Paul Ryan is so wealthy that he sleeps on a cot in his office in Washington to save money: http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/08/13/10-things-we-learned-about-paul-ryan-this-weekend/ Highfalutin or what He is wealthy - and frugal, which is why he sleeps on a cot rather than spend money on an apartment: Millionaire VP pick: Paul Ryan rich from investments, inheritance With business investments and a family inheritance, Rep. Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin and his wife have accumulated millions of dollars in assets.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Funny thing about sweden, they elected a centre right govt which has job creation as its priority, no stimulus spending and tax cuts. Now why would sweden be copying us? And they pay a lot less in SK and Alberta and they've put the canadian economy on their backs. funny thing swedens centre right government is still more socialist than the NDPThey also pay high tax in venezuela and the rich can't leave fast enough individual tax rate venezuela 6-34%, we should be so lucky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 He is wealthy - and frugal, which is why he sleeps on a cot rather than spend money on an apartment: Millionaire VP pick: Paul Ryan rich from investments, inheritance With business investments and a family inheritance, Rep. Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin and his wife have accumulated millions of dollars in assets.... A millionaire that won’t pay $800 a month or ~$12000 a year for rent and utilities for a cheap apartment? From your link: Mitt Romney’s newly announced running mate reported assets in the range of $2 million to $7.7 million. The largest was the interest that his wife, Janna, holds in a trust resulting from the 2010 death of her mother, Prudence Little. Her interest in the trust falls in the range of $1 million to $5 million, Ryan reported.Ryan also reported investment income that, along with a distribution from the inheritance, supplemented his $174,000 congressional salary – somewhere between $168,000 and $1.2 million. So the majority of his families personal wealth was accumulated from his late mother in-law? Hardly a zillionaire….. He also reported a mortgage on his house in Janesville, Wis., in the range of $250,001 to $500,000. What’s next? The family mini-van has leather seats and AC? They have not one, but two flat screen TV’s? The family went on a lavish Disney cruise last year, hobnobbing with Mickey Mouse? This guy might be comfortable, but not Romney comfortable………….And if he is just frugal, isn’t that what America needs right now as President of the Senate? Or more of the same like the current Senate majority leader staying in the Ritz Carlton at $400 a night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 funny thing swedens centre right government is still more socialist than the NDP individual tax rate venezuela 6-34%, we should be so lucky... And chavez expropriating businesses at a whim and chasing the rich out of his country. How does a country that floats on oil have a hard time keeping the lights on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 And chavez expropriating businesses at a whim and chasing the rich out of his country. How does a country that floats on oil have a hard time keeping the lights on. If only there was a Venezualan Politics section at Mapleleafweb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 This guy might be comfortable, but not Romney comfortable………….And if he is just frugal, isn’t that what America needs right now as President of the Senate? Or more of the same like the current Senate majority leader staying in the Ritz Carlton at $400 a night? Ryan sleeping on a cot! I see your RNC/Fox News talking points are all lined up... of course, that Harry Reid Ritz Carlton dig has been getting full-on RNC assault play in recent weeks given Reid's attacks against Romney to release his taxes. Release your taxes Mitt! (and, apparently, owning a 2nd-floor one bedroom condo at the Washington D.C. Ritz Carlton, in RNC math, equates to paying $400 per night "at the Ritz Carlton Hotel"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleeding heart Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 I am highly skeptical the idea that "the wealthy" and "small business owners" are the same people. Me too. In fact, I'll up the ante, and assume that many posters here have been or are acquainted with many small business owners over the years, on a personal level. I know this applies to me, and I'm not personally a business owner. And that most of them make somewhere between $0 and $150 000 a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted August 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 Thw poor don't pay any incomes taxes. The top 1% pay almost 40% of all income taxes paid to the government. The top 20% of income earners pay almost 86% of all income taxes. So I'm not sure what you're talking about. I was talking about the addition of a consumption tax, which was suggested in the post I responded to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 And chavez expropriating businesses at a whim and chasing the rich out of his country. How does a country that floats on oil have a hard time keeping the lights on. hey you claimed high taxes I supplied the tax rates they pay which are lower than ours and try dodge with more right wing cliches...despite floating on oil for decades venezuelans had abject poverty and was being looted of it's resource wealth by a handful of privileged elite and foreign oil corporations...life in Venezuela for the poor has been improving as some of the benefits of it's resources have been diverted their way if the wealthy object to paying that crushing tax of 34% I guess they can leave, but something tells me they're not going anywhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 hey you claimed high taxes I supplied the tax rates they pay which are lower than ours and try dodge with more right wing cliches...despite floating on oil for decades venezuelans had abject poverty and was being looted of it's resource wealth by a handful of privileged elite and foreign oil corporations...life in Venezuela for the poor has been improving as some of the benefits of it's resources have been diverted their way if the wealthy object to paying that crushing tax of 34% I guess they can leave, but something tells me they're not going anywhere... Don't you know what blueblood thinks? If anyone pays over 30% taxes it is slavery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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