[Reuters] EU crisis deal

[maple_leafs182]

The deal, announced in the early hours of Thursday, will see private holders of Greek bonds accept a 50 percent loss on their investment, while banks will be recapitalized and the size of the currency bloc's rescue fund will be leveraged to 1 trillion euros ($1.4 trillion).

Source

Wooh, the economy is saved, we will all be rich in no time.

So the people who bought Greek debt loose 50% of their investment while the banks get nearly free money...got to love fiat currencies, the banks best friend.

I thought the reason people were protesting around the world is because we keep giving big business special privileges.

Edited November 2, 2011 by maple_leafs182

[bush_cheney2004]

...I thought the reason people were protesting around the world is because we keep giving big business special privileges.

The only other alternative is total default...you up for that? Let the people protesting bail Greece out.

[maple_leafs182]

The only other alternative is total default...you up for that? Let the people protesting bail Greece out.

Ya, I want default

[sharkman]

As the number of crisis deals mounts, it becomes plain to anyone with common sense that a new equilibrium has come, and some nations will remain under water no matter how many trillions get thrown at them.

The question is, what will this do(or what has this done) to the world economy.

[blueblood]

As the number of crisis deals mounts, it becomes plain to anyone with common sense that a new equilibrium has come, and some nations will remain under water no matter how many trillions get thrown at them.

The question is, what will this do(or what has this done) to the world economy.

Slow down because we're stuffing money into banks with these bad bonds instead of investing in production.

[eyeball]

If it results in economic winners becoming increasingly snooty, condescending and prone to moral pronouncements about working harder and making greater sacrifices it will probably push it over the brink even faster.

While there is probably nothing that pisses people off more it's even harder on those who turn their anger inward and become depressed.

[sharkman]

Okay, once you are done blaming your favorite targets, then what?

[eyeball]

You blame yourself and if that still doesn't explain it you reassess your first impressions.

Chances are you were probably right the first time but you just didn't want to believe it because what it implies are actually worse.

[Wild Bill]

As the number of crisis deals mounts, it becomes plain to anyone with common sense that a new equilibrium has come, and some nations will remain under water no matter how many trillions get thrown at them.

Exactly! It's not enough to bail Greece out, again! If the Greek people have a culture of not paying taxes and having extremely low productivity then bailouts are futile.

Repeated bailouts to try to fix a structural problem are not solutions. They are welfare! The productive countries in the EU would have a very hard time selling that idea to their citizens! Why should they work hard to subsidize an easy life for the Greeks?

Now there's going to be a referendum, apparently. If the Greek people vote 'No', how on earth will the politicians be able to sell the idea of perpetual bailouts? True, the usual political move would simply be to lie, and use different ecobabble terms to describe the same thing. The problem is so blatant that this isn't likely to work, at least not for long. People are not THAT stupid!

Greece has to FIX it's problems! Or at least, demonstrate that they are moving in that direction, FOR REAL!

Otherwise, even if it triggers another recession the bailout money is going to be stopped! The Greeks and the lefties can try to blame the bankers all they want for loaning the money in the first place but the fact remains that the Greeks eagerly took the money, with apparently absolutely no intentions of ever paying it back! Yet they expect to remain in the EU!

These people need a reality check, not as an aggressive act by "the Illuminati Who Control the World's Economy" but simply as a refusal by working people to be taxed any longer to help those who refuse to help themselves.

Where is it written in the sky that Germans should be taxed so that Greeks don't have to be?

[blueblood]

Exactly! It's not enough to bail Greece out, again! If the Greek people have a culture of not paying taxes and having extremely low productivity then bailouts are futile.

Repeated bailouts to try to fix a structural problem are not solutions. They are welfare! The productive countries in the EU would have a very hard time selling that idea to their citizens! Why should they work hard to subsidize an easy life for the Greeks?

Now there's going to be a referendum, apparently. If the Greek people vote 'No', how on earth will the politicians be able to sell the idea of perpetual bailouts? True, the usual political move would simply be to lie, and use different ecobabble terms to describe the same thing. The problem is so blatant that this isn't likely to work, at least not for long. People are not THAT stupid!

Greece has to FIX it's problems! Or at least, demonstrate that they are moving in that direction, FOR REAL!

Otherwise, even if it triggers another recession the bailout money is going to be stopped! The Greeks and the lefties can try to blame the bankers all they want for loaning the money in the first place but the fact remains that the Greeks eagerly took the money, with apparently absolutely no intentions of ever paying it back! Yet they expect to remain in the EU!

These people need a reality check, not as an aggressive act by "the Illuminati Who Control the World's Economy" but simply as a refusal by working people to be taxed any longer to help those who refuse to help themselves.

Where is it written in the sky that Germans should be taxed so that Greeks don't have to be?

Quite simply Greece had one hell of a bender. They got liquored up on cheap money and painted the town red. Right now it's about 8:30 in the morning and the hangover express is right on schedule. Now Greece could be like an alcoholic with a hangover and go through withdrawal. Hangover's suck, but it's got to be done to get back to productivity. That hangover is going to be high interest rates and low growth which is going to be resulting in those greeks saving their money. There may be emigration. In the end, prices will fall there, industry will start again, and people will learn their lesson. It's not the end of the world, its just the party is over.

[Bonam]

Long as Greece news keeps swinging the market up and down on a daily basis, we can rake in profits (both up and down). Hope the "crisis" keeps going for months yet

[blueblood]

Long as Greece news keeps swinging the market up and down on a daily basis, we can rake in profits (both up and down). Hope the "crisis" keeps going for months yet

Nice if your a day trader, but torture if your a commodity producer.

[Bonam]

Nice if your a day trader, but torture if your a commodity producer.

Why? If you're a commodity producer, just sell your futures contract to lock in the price and be done with it. A few percent fluctuations up and down on a daily basis aren't gonna impact you after that.

[blueblood]

Why? If you're a commodity producer, just sell your futures contract to lock in the price and be done with it. A few percent fluctuations up and down on a daily basis aren't gonna impact you after that.

Ah but you make the most when you sell into a long term rally in increments. If it's dancing around and you have inventory to get rid of, it's very hard to time in the perfect sell opportunity. Selling all your production in one shot is very risky and more often than not guys get pillaged. I had about 66% of my production sold in the spring and shorted just before the Greek gong show took place. If Greece gets it's situation " resolved" soon and la Nina jitters up south America/china demand remains voracious, I should be able to do all right in Q1/2. key is not to keep your eggs in one basket.

[Bonam]

Ah but you make the most when you sell into a long term rally in increments. If it's dancing around and

you have inventory to get rid of, it's very hard to time in the perfect sell opportunity.

If you're trying to time the markets to get a few % more on your price, you're just as much a short term trader as anyone else. You're not just a producer at that point.

Selling all your production in one shot is very risky and more often than not guys get pillaged.

How is it "risky"? You know the price you sell for. If that price exceeds your costs to produce that commodity, you've made a profit. You know exactly how much that profit is, and whether or not that level of profit is satisfactory to you. Selling a commodity that you own for a profit entails precisely zero risk.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Bonam

[blueblood]

If you're trying to time the markets to get a few % more on your price, you're just as much a short term trader as anyone else. You're not just a producer at that point.

How is it "risky"? You know the price you sell for. If that price exceeds your costs to produce that commodity, you've made a profit. You know exactly how much that profit is, and whether or not that level of profit is satisfactory to you. Selling a commodity that you own for a profit entails precisely zero risk.

I am able to inventory my production for one year. It's stored in bins. That allows me to be a bit of a speculator, and gives me some power. Guys that don't have storage are at complete mercy of the market. As you know it's next to impossible to time the perfect point to sell, which is why you try and sell in increments into the greed part o the rally so you have a much better chance of hitting the peak.

It's risky because of opportunity cost. I may have made a profit if I sold at x time, but if the rally continues it ends up costing me money for what I could have sold it for because of opportunity cost. Better to sell into a rally than at a specific point like playing roulette in Vegas. Remember I want to make as much money as possible.

[Topaz]

These are uncertian times on the stock market and just as the owners of businesses, I wonder if the average investor is also taking care of their business, if Euro and European go belly up? I've heard one person say that he was taking half of his investments, which are in the US and cashing them in, so he would have something if things got as bad a the Great Depression. It's hard to know what exactly to do if you have investments in the stock market, but I think its best to play safe than keep it there and take a chance it could get wipe out. It also depends how well of one is and if you could live without the investments if you lost everything.