blueblood Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 The Sunburn , in the numbers produced by all operating countries, are still not a serious threat………Do you know what the launch platform for it is in Iranian service? And, do you currently know the location of the US CVBG in the Gulf? Unless the Iranian’s are using an emitting search radar, neither do they.... with a range of approx 200 clicks the iranians better hope the us radar operators are sleeping. Especially with the combat range of an f18 at 700 clicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 with a range of approx 200 clicks the iranians better hope the us radar operators are sleeping. Especially with the combat range of an f18 at 700 clicks. The biggest threat to any Iranian military units trying to acquire a CVBG is the E-2D and their APY-9 Phased Array……..and the CVBG’s SSN(s)………USN Hawkeyes and USAF/RSAF E-3s would(do) know when any Iranian aircraft take-off, let alone start using their antiquated surface search radars……..Now the Iranian’s ability to threaten oil tankers in the gulf is a viable threat………That said, after the first tanker is burning, the Iranian navy and air forces lifespan will be measured in hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 When was the last time Iran attacked another country? When was the last time the USA attacked another country? When was the last time the USA sentenced a woman to 100 lashes, killed some gays... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) When was the last time the USA sentenced a woman to 100 lashes, killed some gays... one of their states just put a probably innocent man to death in georgia The ATF gave the mexican drug cartels free weapons that has been used in murders.. Edited October 14, 2011 by olp1fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 with a range of approx 200 clicks the iranians better hope the us radar operators are sleeping. Especially with the combat range of an f18 at 700 clicks. I thought I'd add to my first reply by putting it into laymans terms for those that may not follow us..... The best description of a hypothetical conflict between NATO and the Soviet Union was from a RN officer I spoke with back in the late 80s…….To reiterate, imagine a football field in the dead of night, with zero light…….Now put two people somewhere on this field, dressed in black, one armed with a handgun (The CVBG) and both a flashlight (this is representing Soviet Bear recon aircraft and a CVBG in the Atlantic)…….Now throw in a couple of dozen people riding around on bikes with blinking head lights (Commercial aircraft) and another couple of dozen with pen lights walking back and forth along the field (Commercial shipping)……Now each persons various form of lighting represents radar. Now back to the two original people……..One (Soviet Bear maritime recon plane), aided with his flashlight is searching for the other fellow(CVBG) who is keeping his flashlight turned off and handgun with a round in the chamber………Who has the advantage? Now throw into the equation a couple of the second guys friends……..One is walking around with night vision goggles and a very powerful mag-light (E-2 Hawkeye) and he’s being followed by a couple of other guys with shotguns and their own powerful flashlights that they are keeping turned off (F-4/F-14/F-18 CAP)……..The first guys job is getting considerably harder to find the second guy………….Now factor in, the first guy, could keep his light off also, but aside from bumping into the first guy, won’t find him………Also factor in if the Soviet guy has his light on, the others will see it long before he sees them……….. Let’s say the first guy finds the second guy……Now the first guy has to call his friends who are armed with single shot rifles (Tu-22 Backfires) with a bullhorn, who are hours away, all the while keeping in close contact with the second guy without getting whacked…….Now if he does get bumped off, his buddies (The Backfires) have flashlights (not as powerful) of their own, so they could continue the search with their lights, but the second guy, alerted by the bullhorn, has a few more of his friends on the field with night vision goggles and 3-4 dozen of his other friends with shotguns and their own flashlights…….And the second guy/CVBG still is not using his own light……. Now imagine the Iranians today……..They don’t have a guy with a flashlight……and all the Americans have night vision goggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 The Sunburn , in the numbers produced by all operating countries, are still not a serious threat……… china alone reportedly has 500, sufficient to destroy the entire surface fleet of the US navy were it all to be within range...china aquired them specifically to counter the US carrier fleet in the south china sea...Do you know what the launch platform for it is in Iranian service? And, do you currently know the location of the US CVBG in the Gulf? Unless the Iranian’s are using an emitting search radar, neither do they.... ss n 22 can be launched from air, mobile transport and fixed ground locations, the ss-n-26 ship, submarine, fixed or mobile land launch systems, what versions the iranians have or exact numbers is obviously a closely kept secret...the russian cruise missiles are designed specifically to defeat the agis system...something even Iraq did with an exocet taking out the USS Stark despite the agis system ...the gulf is very narrow visual acquisition by a fishing boat is all that is needed and the SS-N-22 or the more advanced SS-N-26 will do the rest, the closing speed makes the most advanced agis system irrelevant, carriers will have 25-30 seconds to react from 1st detection until impact, the ss-n-26s are designed to find targets and strike ships in order of importance, a fire and forget system...and large numbers aren't that important the US will only have 4-5 carriers, an equal number of hits from cruise missiles and the US fleet is crippled and useless without it's air arm... then there is the china's C-802 which Iran is estimated to have 200, it has a 98% strike rate and the US has no known defence for it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Wrong. Back in the 80s, the Soviets deemed mulit regimental Backfire attacks necessary to crack a US carrier battlegroup……. That’s over 100 cruise missiles (Kh-22s/AS-4)……With the success ratio of the early AEGIS/Standard missile combo, it’s was deemed a minimum 100 missiles be launched to achieve 3-5 hits on the ships of a CVBG……..Barring nuclear warheads, a carrier could likely soak-up 6-8 hits prior to sinking…….That was in the 80s with the early mark version of AEGIS, when a CVBG would at most have 1-2 AEGIS ships within it, we the remaining ships being of various other classes………Today the Aegis software has been considerably upgraded, all the escorts in a CVBG are AEGIS ships and Iran is armed with Chinese knock-offs of the exocet & maverick missiles (lighter missiles) The Iranian military is not a serious threat to the USN. WRONG! one Iraqi mirage took out the USS stark with two exocets, so much for the awesome agis system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 WRONG! one Iraqi mirage took out the USS stark with two exocets, so much for the awesome agis system WRONG.......The USS Stark was a Short Hull Oliver Hazard Perry Frigate……..Not an Aegis vessel……..And the Stark…….retired in 1999.…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 If you say so. But FYI, it isn't the "policy of the [u.S.]" to mislead the public. Actually if the goal is facilitated by misleading the public, it has, does, and will continue to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Actually if the goal is facilitated by misleading the public, it has, does, and will continue to happen. Like 911 right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 WRONG! one Iraqi mirage took out the USS stark with two exocets, so much for the awesome agis system The USS Stark was not an Aegis platform and its sensors/CIWS were not in the correct readiness state; Stark's commanding officer was recommended for court-martial (negligence) by an investigating board, along with several subordinates. Stark's crew won the damage control battle and the ship limped into port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Like 911 right? We don't even need to go that far Shady ... all we need to do is look at the run up to the Iraq invasion. Also we can see the lies that were created for the bombing of Libya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 So President Obombyah can lean back in the big leather chair and say, lets wack so and so today...but when someone wants to wack a Saudi - who as we know, all need a darn good wacking...and when that someone is motivated by Iranian interests.... Then that is a big NO No - makes you wonder if the saying - what is good for the goose is good for the gander might be an accurate analogy? Right after 9 11 - The Americans should have gone after the pay masters of the Saudi dupes that flew the planes into the towers - but NOOOOOO - the Saudis are buisness partners...and so what if they paid for the hit on 3000 innocent people - such double if not triple standards here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 china alone reportedly has 500, sufficient to destroy the entire surface fleet of the US navy were it all to be within range...china aquired them specifically to counter the US carrier fleet in the south china sea... The Chinese primary launch platform are four destroyers…………Sunburn has a range of ~200miles…….A Hornet has a (unrefueled radius) of near 500 miles……..Then there’s the SSNs….. ss n 22 can be launched from air, mobile transport and fixed ground locations, the ss-n-26 ship, submarine, fixed or mobile land launch systems, what versions the iranians have or exact numbers is obviously a closely kept secret Ahh….But what are the Iranian launch platforms the russian cruise missiles are designed specifically to defeat the agis system And Communism was to defeat capitalism something even Iraq did with an exocet taking out the USS Stark despite the agis system Again the USS Stark wasn’t an Aegis vessel……..or part of CVBG…….or sunk the gulf is very narrow visual acquisition by a fishing boat is all that is needed and the SS-N-22 or the more advanced SS-N-26 will do the rest, Ahh not the Gulf is actually quite large…….(been there a few times)……..The Iraqis managed to continuously ship oil during the Iran/Iraq war via shuttle tankers…The Iranians weren’t to successful in sinking unarmed oil tankers sailing along their own boarder……And no, a fishing boat can’t guide an SS-N-22.…. the closing speed makes the most advanced agis system irrelevant, carriers will have 25-30 seconds to react from 1st detection until impact, How does the Sunburn (launch platform) locate the CVBG? (and don’t say fishing boat, it needs a combo of surface search and fire control radar) And than how does it’s launch platform get within ~200 miles of the CVBG? carriers will have 25-30 seconds to react from 1st detection until impact Longer than that……The CVBG will know as soon as someone starts lighting up a radar……And that doesn’t mean that someone knows where the CVBG is…. the ss-n-26s are designed to find targets and strike ships in order of importance, a fire and forget system You're just talking out your ass now. and large numbers aren't that important the US will only have 4-5 carriers No, they've got alot more than that. an equal number of hits from cruise missiles and the US fleet is crippled and useless without it's air arm Who says the Iranians are going to find the American fleet……… then there is the china's C-802 which Iran is estimated to have 200, it has a 98% strike rate and the US has no known defence for it ... Again, the launch platform has to find the target first….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 The USS Stark was not an Aegis platform and its sensors/CIWS were not in the correct readiness state; Stark's commanding officer was recommended for court-martial (negligence) by an investigating board, along with several subordinates. Stark's crew won the damage control battle and the ship limped into port. You got to love “experts”……..The Sunburn sure is a “scary missile“………I suppose the USN has stopped operating in the Persian Gulf, straits of Taiwan, sea of Japan and the north Atlantic/Pacific due to this threat… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 WRONG! one Iraqi mirage took out the USS stark with two exocets, so much for the awesome agis system And it had to be within range. I don't think the US will be putting their fleet 200 clicks from iran without knocking out their radar installations and achieving naval superiority. As for fighter jets armed with said missile have fun trying to avoid detection from the awacs aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 You got to love “experts”……..The Sunburn sure is a “scary missile“………I suppose the USN has stopped operating in the Persian Gulf, straits of Taiwan, sea of Japan and the north Atlantic/Pacific due to this threat… Now that you mention that, President Reagan and the US Congress faced that very question in the aftermath of Stark. Rather than leave such areas, the US decided to ramp up its activity in such crucial areas and this led to more mine incidents, attack on an Iranian oil platform, and general establishment of dominance in those waters. The USS Vincennes (Aegis cruiser) took things a bit too far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 ... As for fighter jets armed with said missile have fun trying to avoid detection from the awacs aircraft. Good point...the Iraqi Mirage that attacked Stark was detected by AWACS before the incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 How can you take any part of an administration seriously when guys like McKain - who were prisoners of war...shot their mouths off for some cookies and tea - causing the shoot down rates of American planes to double during the Vietnam mess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 How can you take any part of an administration seriously when guys like McKain - who were prisoners of war...shot their mouths off for some cookies and tea - causing the shoot down rates of American planes to double during the Vietnam mess? I think you have answered your own question. Senator McCain had first hand experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I think you have answered your own question. Senator McCain had first hand experience! The bad guys knew that McCain was the son of an important man...they knew that he would say and do anything to please them...He reminds me so much of Biden - who was part of that plot based in the emotional manipulation of electing a "black" president - KNOWING the public would not tolerate one more term of a president that represented fat white cats> ---it was pretty clever. Poor Obama is like a meat puppet and Bidens' hands will never be cold in the winter. The whole Saudi concept is dreary and sickening - that we have those in our midst that are willing to betray their own brothers and sisters to maintain a bunch of boy banging weasils that are about as royal as camel shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 ....The whole Saudi concept is dreary and sickening - that we have those in our midst that are willing to betray their own brothers and sisters to maintain a bunch of boy banging weasils that are about as royal as camel shit. Hey...any country that still buys into any of that royal highness crap is in the same boat, even if camels are scarce. Funny thing, Australia imported camels! You gots any camels in Canada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Hey...any country that still buys into any of that royal highness crap is in the same boat, even if camels are scarce. Funny thing, Australia imported camels! You gots any camels in Canada? The only Camels I wish to have are the ones you make that come in a pack. They are a fine smoke. The Iranians must have done a quick study on the weak points in American domestic policy regarding Mexico..that the huge failed state and their hooligans have free access to the interior. That some red eyed crazy henchman for the Mexican mob would make the perfect candidate to hire for a hit on some Saudi - who in realty is also from a failed state - a rich one..but with a very similar dynamic to that of Mexico - tons of poor people who they melt down in barrels of acid - or bury up to their wastes and stone the shit out of...kind of like getting satan to cast out satan...kind of funny...I guess the Americans are against using evil to destroy evil? Cos as we see it does not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) The Iranians must have done a quick study on the weak points in American domestic policy regarding Mexico..that the huge failed state and their hooligans have free access to the interior.... Wouldn't be the first time...Germany tried that for WWI...remember the Zimmerman Telegram (1917)? If you make the United States come over there, we are probably bringing an ass whipping with us! Edited October 14, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Wouldn't be the first time...Germany tried that for WWI...remember the Zimmerman Telegram (1917)? If you make the United States come over there, we are probably bringing an ass whipping with us! Don't really know anymore BC...the proponents of human evolution and progress seem to be full of shit...almost biblical in scope - like the classic "nest of vipers" --- I can't tell the difference between the good guys and the bad guys...It's that same old rusty can you open up and all you see are a mass of worms. Maybe the U S should have let nature take it's course and did what took place back when the Duke was shot by the "anarchist" prior WW1 - to this day the shot that sparked the war has never been resolved - on who was really responsible....If this situation regarding the Saudi envoy had taken place 20 years ago - the Americans would have let the murder go down and entered a lucrative war with Iran...Manipulated it a bit - Had Iran kick Saudi ass then take the oil from both contestants...But it seems that America understands that it is not up to waging a full scale fight...not at this point - It is not usually like the Americans to interfere with what could have been a very good occurance in the act of stimulation of the economy - seeing their is no economy to stimulate...they held back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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