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Mosque coming to Markham


xul

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This evening I came home from work and was greeted by my wife with this news. :rolleyes:

Mosque coming to Markham

The planned mosque is just a street next to my backyard. I would have no problem with a mosque there if most of my neighbours were Muslims but they are not. Most of residents in the community are white and I definitely know they are not Turks.

If the mosque mainly doesn't serve the residents of the community, why shouldn't it be built somewhere more public like nearby a Walmart? :lol:

A Taj Mahal-like mosque is in the works for Markham’s 16th Avenue after the town’s development services committee gave the project a green light Tuesday.

The proposal from the Islamic Society of Markham is to build a 28,000-sq. ft. mosque just east of St. Brother Andre Catholic School.

The mosque will accommodate more than 500 worshippers and will include 188 parking spaces.

It measures 34 feet in height for the main building, 70 feet for the top of the dome and 135 feet for the minaret (the tall spire).

Edited by xul
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I doubt you need to worry. Here in my small town there is a Chinese Catholic church just one block from where I live. But there are very few Chinese in this area where I live. There is no "China-town" as such, they are spread out among the general community. Every Sunday they come out, in the church van packed with about 20 people. the rest come in their own cars. They are all very nice... they're going to church after all. Then they go home.

But if you still feel too nervous, suggest you and everyone in your family can just wear a turban. That's what Muslims like to wear and when they see you all in your turbans, they won't harm you. It worked for jbg.

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Our newly arrived religiouis immigrants had better realize that they are not holier than thou - that we are NOT a nation of godless infidels - we are very private about our beliefs at this time....but some Muslims and old Christian sects that are setting up shop in Canada assume that all white Canadians are oxycodone popping white trash...It's because the first place immigrants usually settle are our run down parts of town - so they assume all of Canada is like this.

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I doubt you need to worry. Here in my small town there is a Chinese Catholic church just one block from where I live. But there are very few Chinese in this area where I live. There is no "China-town" as such, they are spread out among the general community. Every Sunday they come out, in the church van packed with about 20 people. the rest come in their own cars. They are all very nice... they're going to church after all. Then they go home.

But if you still feel too nervous, suggest you and everyone in your family can just wear a turban. That's what Muslims like to wear and when they see you all in your turbans, they won't harm you. It worked for jbg.

In my neighbourhood this little Pentecostal Church went through a huge change over the past 10 years to grow almost 5 times the size of the original building. Trouble is, there aren't very many Pentecosts in our neighbourhood, if any. Thank God for that!

I agree. They shouldn't have built this church in our neighbourhood because it attracts all kinds of 'foreigners' to our neighbourhood. They should have built it near a WalMart where it would do more good. The Pentecosts are so huge and powerful now, the United Church near them sold out and moved away. People should keep an eye on them.

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I think it should not be planned there, not because it is a mosque, but because it is a mass daily rally point for non-residents in a residential area.

I know there is a church in the community, but the church doesn't have a lot with 188 parkings and additional borrowed parkings from a local school's. I suppose it is only for local residents because it is unlikely that a person will walk 10 kilometers to go to the church.

Just thinking, if it was a Walmart supper-center(or a famous Chinese restaurant, a "Chinese church" which only worshipped Chinese god and only allows Chinese in, etc.) which obviously only served a few local residents of the community but would draw customers from 20 to 50 kilometers radius, shouldn't it be placed where a Walmart supper-center was supposed to be?

Edited by xul
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I think it should not be planned there, not because it is a mosque, but because it is a mass daily rally point for non-residents in a residential area.

You said it was in Markham. There are plenty of 'resident' Muslims in Markham.

I know there is a church in the community, but the church doesn't have a lot with 188 parkings and additional borrowed parkings from a local school's. I suppose it is only for local residents because it is unlikely that a person will walk 10 kilometers to go to the church.

I know of a local Baptist Church in the middle of a residential area and they have a huge ass parking lot as well. Heck, they had a circus in it! However, there is no way that neighbourhood has that many Baptists and, if it does, God help the non-Baptists.

Just thinking, if it was a Walmart supper-center(or a famous Chinese restaurant, a "Chinese church" which only worshipped Chinese god and only allows Chinese in, etc.) which obviously only served a few local residents of the community but would draw customers from 20 to 50 kilometers radius, shouldn't it be placed where a Walmart supper-center was supposed to be?

No, it should be placed where there is land, infrastructure and services and is somewhat central. But mostly the land part. Cheap land. And nothing says cheap more than "Markham."

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Where are Walmarts and Mosques 'supposed to be' ? Not in my backyard, they say.

Interesting principle that meeting places must serve the local populace. Applying it to Toronto would shut down many churches, and other facilities such as The Santa Clause Parade, the ACC, Rogers Centre, and downtown Toronto.

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Where are Walmarts and Mosques 'supposed to be' ? Not in my backyard, they say.

Interesting principle that meeting places must serve the local populace. Applying it to Toronto would shut down many churches, and other facilities such as The Santa Clause Parade, the ACC, Rogers Centre, and downtown Toronto.

Well... we need to curtail freedoms in order to address the problem dontchya know. Isn't that the 21st century mantra?

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If the mosque mainly doesn't serve the residents of the community, why shouldn't it be built somewhere more public like nearby a Walmart? :lol:

Most municipalities have churches and mosques etc zone residential. So it is entirely appropriate to locate a mosque in a residential neighbourhood. I suspect the purpose of that is so that churches and mosques etc can easily be accessed by walking. So the location might encourage Muslims to relocate to your neighborhood so they won't have to depend on cars to get them there. Its kinda cool that your neighbours might have a different religion - something you can learn from - and hopefully bridge gaps and help become more tolerant of other ideologies.

Enjoy their company. No doubt they call Canada their home too.

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This evening I came home from work and was greeted by my wife with this news. :rolleyes:

Mosque coming to Markham

The planned mosque is just a street next to my backyard. I would have no problem with a mosque there if most of my neighbours were Muslims but they are not. Most of residents in the community are white and I definitely know they are not Turks.

If the mosque mainly doesn't serve the residents of the community, why shouldn't it be built somewhere more public like nearby a Walmart? :lol:

Xul, church-going people of any religion are rarely a problem to the rest of a community. There really is no valid reason to stop them from building their mosque. In this country we believe in the presumption of innocence. In other words, it would be wrong to curtail the freedom of the people of this mosque. If and only if afterwards there were some problems would you have a right to expect the 'system' to deal with them but this would likely be an exceedingly rare case.

It seems odd to me that this incident has you worried. Most folks are afraid of crackheads, porn shops, strip clubs and massage parlours moving into their neighbourhood. This is the first time I've heard someone complain about a church!

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We as neighbours had better keep up with the Mohamids and get our own temples back in shape- Nothing more tragic as far as tradition....to see a mulit-million dollar white marble mosque beside a once beautiful run down Christian church about to be turned into a condo.

Our Christian heritage is who we are - where our grand folks spawned from - it is where all of western prosperity originated from - the teachings of our great prophet and King - Jesus the Christ - we should be distressed to see the house of the prince of peace be out done by the lessor prophet who was not above conversion by the sword.

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Even if we do not use our old churches - preserve them as a reminder to Muslims and others - who started and established this great nation of opportunity and freedom and it was not Mohamid...the new comer.

Actually if you take a good look at who built this country you will find a lot of Buddha in it.

Canada is not a Christian country. It is multi-religous with accommodation for everyone.

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I know of a local Baptist Church in the middle of a residential area and they have a huge ass parking lot as well. Heck, they had a circus in it! However, there is no way that neighbourhood has that many Baptists and, if it does, God help the non-Baptists.

A Baptist Church with 188 parkings + additional parkings borrowed from a nearby school for 500 believers? Where is it?

Please use Google Map checking the land for the planned mosque, which locates at the north of 16th Ave between BR Andre Catholic HS and Williamson Rd, then move the map to compare the size of the mosque with the nearest walmart wich locates at the north-west of the intersection of McCowan Rd and Hwy 7, you will find the Walmart is not too much bigger than the mosque.

No, it should be placed where there is land, infrastructure and services and is somewhat central. But mostly the land part. Cheap land. And nothing says cheap more than "Markham."

I'm not sure you have read the article in the link of my first post.

If it shoud be placed where there is land, why shouldn't the Taoist temple? :P

Hello Islamic mosque, bye-bye Taoist temple?

A Taj Mahal-like mosque is in the works for Markham’s 16th Avenue after the town’s development services committee gave the project a green light Tuesday.

Meanwhile, during the same meeting, an award-winning architect’s design of a proposed Taoist temple in Markham was ruled out of character with the community by town councillors.

The contentious proposal three years in the making had from the outset drew opposition from the public largely because it would also offer Taoist tai chi classes as part of the religion.

While that issue is still a concern for some, the application to build the Fung Loy Kok Institute of Taoism on Steeles Avenue between Bayview Avenue and Leslie Street was rejected in a 11-2 vote based on a built form that many residents say is incompatible with the neighbouring residential area.

Edited by xul
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Where are Walmarts and Mosques 'supposed to be' ? Not in my backyard, they say.

I'm under the impression that the most parts of GTA are well planned.

Big supermarkets like Walmart, Malls and other comercial/social/governmental establishments which may draw large amount of visitors are usually planned at the corners of the intersection of two main streets. Obviously the principle of the layout is convenient for visitors who drive in and out from distant region, meanwhile minimize the disturbance to the local residents.

Interesting principle that meeting places must serve the local populace.

Daily meeting place....

You might have no problem with that Harper got G20 meeting at downtown of Toronto. It was jsut temporary inconvenient, wasn't it?

But if the conservative boss got G20 meeting at Toronto everyday, I guess his hardest follower in the city would uprise against him.

Applying it to Toronto would shut down many churches, and other facilities such as The Santa Clause Parade, the ACC, Rogers Centre, and downtown Toronto.

How many of these churches are historial heritages? As for downtown, I think its function is very different from the functioin of uptown.

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Well... we need to curtail freedoms in order to address the problem dontchya know. Isn't that the 21st century mantra?

If I want to set up a sliding board of 3 meters height in my backyard for my son, I have to ask my neighbours for their approval.

If I want to set up a CN tower at my backyard, I think the "green light" from the mayor or councillors of Markham isn't enough.

So Canada is the freedom-least place in the world... :P

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Most municipalities have churches and mosques etc zone residential. So it is entirely appropriate to locate a mosque in a residential neighbourhood. I suspect the purpose of that is so that churches and mosques etc can easily be accessed by walking. So the location might encourage Muslims to relocate to your neighborhood so they won't have to depend on cars to get them there. Its kinda cool that your neighbours might have a different religion - something you can learn from - and hopefully bridge gaps and help become more tolerant of other ideologies.

Enjoy their company. No doubt they call Canada their home too.

There is nothing about against muslim or mosques. If it was a huge Chinese restaurant with 188+ parkings, I would also think it should be placed at a comercial plaza.

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Xul, church-going people of any religion are rarely a problem to the rest of a community. There really is no valid reason to stop them from building their mosque. In this country we believe in the presumption of innocence. In other words, it would be wrong to curtail the freedom of the people of this mosque. If and only if afterwards there were some problems would you have a right to expect the 'system' to deal with them but this would likely be an exceedingly rare case.

It seems odd to me that this incident has you worried. Most folks are afraid of crackheads, porn shops, strip clubs and massage parlours moving into their neighbourhood. This is the first time I've heard someone complain about a church!

It is not a religion issue. It's just about "quite" and "noisy". And there is also an issue of style incompatibility. I'm not sure if anyone here has ever been to the the Old Historic Markham Neighbourhood or Markham village. If someone has been to there and still think it is a great idea to set up a hudge mosque/Taoist temple/something exotic there, he or she must have radical taste on aesthetics.

Edited by xul
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Well, of course in the context of Canadian freedom they certainly have a right to apply for and secure all the necessary permits to build wherever they want free from religious discrimination. Still, I sympathize with xul. I would absolutely hate living near a mosque, and seeing a bunch of desert nomads wearing rags and women dressed up like ghosts on Halloween on Fridays and religious holidays. We know they largely hate the very values upon which Canada and the broader Western world is built on Fridays and their religious holidays. We know they largely think they're better than we are, with the moral disrepute of the infidels being a blight that will eventually be cleansed by Islam. I know that prevalent themes among them are anti-Semitism, I know most of them have a sick and perverted historical and political narrative, I know most of them lie through their teeth about their very own cultures, and I know they love blaming their cultural inferiority on fantasies of "Western imperialism" (American invented the Taliban and Saddam Hussein, etc), while clinging to fantasies of some previous greatness that they will yet achieve again through a new caliphate. I know I certainly wouldn't like to have a mosque in my backyard, and it would certainly hurt properly values.

As the Muslim population continues to grow exponentially in Canada, with the cheerleaders on the left begging for more and more of them, we'll see more and more mosques everywhere. Islam is here and it's only going to get bigger and bigger.

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We as neighbours had better keep up with the Mohamids and get our own temples back in shape- Nothing more tragic as far as tradition....to see a mulit-million dollar white marble mosque beside a once beautiful run down Christian church about to be turned into a condo.

Our Christian heritage is who we are - where our grand folks spawned from - it is where all of western prosperity originated from - the teachings of our great prophet and King - Jesus the Christ - we should be distressed to see the house of the prince of peace be out done by the lessor prophet who was not above conversion by the sword.

Actually, Western prosperity originated mainly from shedding the shackles of the Church and embracing learning, science, and technology. The West's rise in power and preeminence went in lockstep with the decline of the Church. And, if anything, one can perhaps also correlate America's recent decline with the resurgence of religion and its greater influence on public affairs, though causation would be hard to show at this point.

Edited by Bonam
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Actually if you take a good look at who built this country you will find a lot of Buddha in it.

Canada is not a Christian country. It is multi-religous with accommodation for everyone.

Are we talking about railroad builders imported from China who were Buddists? Yes that is true Budda did help - so did Jesus - and Moses - and all the others who laid down a doctrine of behaviour...the bulk of our social benevolence and progress orininated in the teachings of Christ - forget what the renegade Catholics did as far as residential schools and the like - Mis-interpretations of Christianity were destructive..but the core was good...it was not Marxism - that made the place thrive...it was GOD and the belief in something higher than being a self serving survivalist animal.

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A Baptist Church with 188 parkings + additional parkings borrowed from a nearby school for 500 believers? Where is it?

Rossland and Ritson in Oshawa. Use Google maps. The churches on the opposite corners are 'normal' churches with normal sized parking lots. I'm not sure how many marked parking spaces there are in the Baptist lot, but there is an expansion area in the back of the church that allows for quite a few more cars to be parked. And, as you can see, smack dab in the middle of a residential area.

Please use Google Map checking the land for the planned mosque, which locates at the north of 16th Ave between BR Andre Catholic HS and Williamson Rd, then move the map to compare the size of the mosque with the nearest walmart wich locates at the north-west of the intersection of McCowan Rd and Hwy 7, you will find the Walmart is not too much bigger than the mosque.

I am sure it will have to be a large piece of land, WalMart sized. Maybe they are expecting more clients in the future?

I'm not sure you have read the article in the link of my first post.

If it shoud be placed where there is land, why shouldn't the Taoist temple?

I can't provide a rationale for why the City of Markham does what they do, but one councillor does:

...many believe a building “on stilts” doesn’t fit in to a residential area.
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Have you considered voicing your concerns to city council? Or is it too late for that.

No, I will not. I guess few of my neighbours would do this. Just imagine, how would those Muslim residents feel if their neighbours started such kind of movement against their holy temple?

I just put the thread here for some discussion.

I don't know if the funders of this grand-mosque-building movement around world also mind others' feeling. But if they spent the same money to build more smaller mosques only for the local muslim residents like most churches, would it be batter for both muslim and non-muslim residents?

And don't you think the fund-thirsty city council should take some initiative to hear the voice from the people whom they are supposed to represent before making the decision?

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