GostHacked Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 The "state" is not geographical - it is mental - it is about the state of mind...we can all have our own independent states - in our heads -where no one can interfere or settle in. I am in this state as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Seventy years ago, events were going from bad to worse. Barbarossa was going full blast and the Einsatzgruppen were busy doing their horrible work. Tomorrow is the anniversary of the worst of these 'horrible works'...Babi Yar (Old Woman's Gorge). This (and other horrible works) is why there's a 'Jewish State' no matter your religious beliefs or convictions. Seventy years...take a moment and remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 The world is tired of all the holocaust whinning - besides Israel is a secualist state..there are no Jews there other than a few old guys in black hats that are pissed off at same sex marriage...get on with it and stop playing the religious card. If the Jews want success they had better start acting like Jews instead of mobsters...what am I saying - the old testiment if full of gangsters and gangster kings..not much has changed in 4000 years - maybe they should try someting different...instead of this institutionalized and eccepted mental illness they now embrace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 The world is tired of all the holocaust whinning - besides Israel is a secualist state..there are no Jews there other than a few old guys in black hats that are pissed off at same sex marriage...get on with it and stop playing the religious card. If the Jews want success they had better start acting like Jews instead of mobsters...what am I saying - the old testiment if full of gangsters and gangster kings..not much has changed in 4000 years - maybe they should try someting different...instead of this institutionalized and eccepted mental illness they now embrace. israel claims to be secular is pure theatre for public audience of western democracies, it is as religiously oriented as it's muslim neighbours...israel is an apartheid state based on religion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Israel is a Jewish state. And Quebec is a francophone state, and Canada is a bilingual federal state. What's your point, jacee? Whether Israel, Canada or Quebec, these states generally protect the rights of minorities and specifically, the rights of an individual. In places such as Iran and Saudi Arabia, that's not the case. Babi Yar (Old Woman's Gorge). This (and other horrible works) is why there's a 'Jewish State' no matter your religious beliefs or convictions.DoP, I don't know if this is your point but I often wondered why Jews in Poland or the Ukraine didn't simply fight the Nazis who came to take them away. As Churchill once said about a potential German invasion of Britain (I paraphrase), "we will kill two of them for every one they kill of us". IOW, I wondered how tens of German SS with at most a hundred or so Ukraine/Polish collaborators could kill thousands of Jews.Hannah Arendt referred to the "banality of evil". In my mind, the better question is to ask how so few people could cause such horror. How did such a small number of people manage to kill so many? Why didn't the thousands of Jews overwhelm the few German SS and Polish/Ukrainian goons? I have never been to Babi Yar but I have been to Treblinka and Dachau. Treblinka was an extermination camp, Dachau a concentration camp/political prison. Both were small; the size of a small suburban shopping mall. In Treblinka, a few hundred people managed to kill about 1 million people in about a year or so. Every day, trains (transports) would arrive with about 20,000 people. While walking along the symbolic train track into Treblinka, I realized that these thousands of people could have overwhelmed the 100 guards or so at the fake train station. On 11 September 2001 on Flight 93, several passengers realized what was happening and overwhelmed the few hijackers, forcing the plane to crash in a field in Pennsylvania. Why didn't Jews in Poland/Ukraine do the same? What would you have done? However one answers that question, it is hard not to conclude that surviving Jews - for better or worse - decided to push and create the State of Israel. ---- Returning to Hannah Arendt, I think in the future we should be more concerned about how a few people can decimate many others - rather than whether evil is wearing red, black or is dressed in banal clothes. Edited September 28, 2011 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted September 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 yup...here the statement made by Benjamin Netanyahu and the context in which it was made better yet, here is likud's platform, on the israeli government site: Self-Rule The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 ...The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs. Gee...that's the same "framework" for First Nations in Canada. God save the Queen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 DoP, I don't know if this is your point but I often wondered why Jews in Poland or the Ukraine didn't simply fight the Nazis who came to take them away. As Churchill once said about a potential German invasion of Britain (I paraphrase), "we will kill two of them for every one they kill of us". IOW, I wondered how tens of German SS with at most a hundred or so Ukraine/Polish collaborators could kill thousands of Jews. If we're talking about that period between the start of Barbarossa and the Wannsee Conference little resistance was met to the Einsatzgruppen* as most fighting age males were in the Red Army (et al) and these actions happened well behind German lines. Collaboration in many many cases wasn't just a few "thugs", either. Whole towns often joined in the killing as witnessed numerous times across the entire path of the Wehrmacht and SS. Also...a large SS man with a dog and an MP40 trumps most heros out there. Plus, he's brought all his pals. Babi Yar was pulled off via telling the Jews they were to be relocated and having them meet near the train station. This notice was posted after the fall of Kiev. All [Jews] living in the city of Kiev and its vicinity are to report by 8 o'clock on the morning of Monday, September 29th, 1941, at the corner of Melnikovsky and Dokhturov Streets (near the cemetery). They are to take with them documents, money, valuables, as well as warm clothes, underwear, etc. Any [Jew] not carrying out this instruction and who is found elsewhere will be shot. Any civilian entering flats evacuated by [Jews] and stealing property will be shot. ...from there the Jews were directed further on towards the ravine just beyond where they were machinegunned. Over 30,000 at one go. I'm well aware of Treblinka, etc. Treblinka was under 1,000,000 dead...but, only ran for a very short period of time. Not a labor/death camp like Auschwitz. Just a murder machine. Carbon Monoxide...or a bullet. *Einsatzgruppens were special SS task forces that followed behind the main front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted September 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Gee...that's the same "framework" for First Nations in Canada. God save the Queen! yeah! fuck them palestinians and their state! nice to see you lining up and OK'ing israel's refusal to accept a palestinian state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Israeli victories against Arab invaders shouldn't be punished. If the Arabs were the brave upright people they claim to be they should ask Israel for forgiveness for all the wars the Arabs have started...plus the terror they've inflicted...and respectfully ask what kind of a state could be worked out in light of these realities. But we'll try it the Arab's way first, eh? Edited September 28, 2011 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 yeah! fuck them palestinians and their state! nice to see you lining up and OK'ing israel's refusal to accept a palestinian state. Unlike yourself, I don't pretend to make or know the best decisions for Israel, but their stance lines up pretty well with statehood for First Nations in Canada....."fuch them", as you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted September 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Unlike yourself, I don't pretend to make or know the best decisions for Israel, but their stance lines up pretty well with statehood for First Nations in Canada....."fuch them", as you said. you are numero uno with your magnificent comparisons. a state for the palestinians is not israel's decision to make. it's a given right which will happen, whether the zionists like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 you are numero uno with your magnificent comparisons. a state for the palestinians is not israel's decision to make. it's a given right which will happen, whether the zionists like it or not. That's fine by me...you are the one with your panties in a knot. But you look pretty foolish preaching to Israelis while keeping your own "PalestIndians" subjugated for far longer. The comparison is valid at many levels, except that Israel never had residential schools for Palestinians or internment camps for Japanese! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 That's fine by me...you are the one with your panties in a knot. But you look pretty foolish preaching to Israelis while keeping your own "PalestIndians" subjugated for far longer. The comparison is valid at many levels, except that Israel never had residential schools for Palestinians or internment camps for Japanese! It also didn't eradicate 90-99% of the palestinian population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 It also didn't eradicate 90-99% of the palestinian population. Well...yea...there's that too. The Palestinian population was big and getting bigger last time I checked, and they live better than many more millions of SubSaharan Africans, but you can't "Jew bait" with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Well...yea...there's that too. The Palestinian population was big and getting bigger last time I checked, and they live better than many more millions of SubSaharan Africans, but you can't "Jew bait" with that. Yup. One of the fastest growing populations in the world in fact. Despite fantastical claims of "genocide" by people like bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Palestine's population has doubled in less than 20 years....very impressive! http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:WBG&dl=en&hl=en&q=palestinian+population Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 israel claims to be secular is pure theatre for public audience of western democracies, it is as religiously oriented as it's muslim neighbours...israel is an apartheid state based on religion... I apporached a young Israeli youth one day at the wine store and asked him..."Do you believe in God" - He stated "No, I do not believe in God, but I do believe in the state of Israel"...THAT if it is typical of modern Israeli youth...is totally hard core secularist in the strongest political sense. The privledge that the "choosen" had was in the idea that they had a contract with God - this gave them great protection by the Christian world. If they no longer believe in God - then I would safely say that the contract is in breach and there is no more covenant that garners protection by their Christian brothers... Muslims are very much like Jewish secularists. Both hold to the doctrines of their religions - and BOTH - evidently have stopped believing in God...The eccense of the God belief is the belief in Goodness...oringally the word good was spelled god...neither of these two groups embrace universal goodness - both embrace secularist spite under the guise of goodness....BOTH are infidels as the evidence now shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 I apporached a young Israeli youth one day at the wine store and asked him..."Do you believe in God" - He stated "No, I do not believe in God, but I do believe in the state of Israel"...THAT if it is typical of modern Israeli youth...is totally hard core secularist in the strongest political sense. The privledge that the "choosen" had was in the idea that they had a contract with God - this gave them great protection by the Christian world. If they no longer believe in God - then I would safely say that the contract is in breach and there is no more covenant that garners protection by their Christian brothers... Muslims are very much like Jewish secularists. Both hold to the doctrines of their religions - and BOTH - evidently have stopped believing in God...The eccense of the God belief is the belief in Goodness...oringally the word good was spelled god...neither of these two groups embrace universal goodness - both embrace secularist spite under the guise of goodness....BOTH are infidels as the evidence now shows. when a government/people claim a divine right of ownership of land and that is the motivator in the pursuit of that goal they can not be thought of as secular...israeli secularism is pure charade... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 ...israeli secularism is pure charade... Note the religiously inspired bikinis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Note the religiously inspired bikinis. Indeed....can Palestinians wear bikinis without getting beheaded? At least the women can drive cars, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Indeed....can Palestinians wear bikinis without getting beheaded? At least the women can drive cars, right? A Palestinian bikini includes a fuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 A Palestinian bikini includes a fuse. :) Gives a whole new meaning to "hot pants". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 :) Gives a whole new meaning to "hot pants". Mining their own beaches will do that. Horray for Pallywood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted September 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) The comparison is valid at many levels, except that Israel never had residential schools for Palestinians or internment camps for Japanese! it says a lot about you when you try to excuse current israeli actions by comparing them to treatment of aboriginals in the past. treatments that would in no shape or form be accepted right now. Edited September 29, 2011 by bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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