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The Truth About Solyndra


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The refineries on the east coast are closing because there is too much capacity and the cost of crude is too high. Providing oil sands bitumen is not going to change those economics because pipelines are expensive. Chicago is in the midwest and already has a pipelines coming from texas, south dakota and alberta. It is also in the center of an area with 40-50 milion people - a market that far exceeds anything that an Alberta refinery could economically access.

punked is not concerned about economics he is concerned, like Revenue Canada, about money - that's what's important!! Economics-schmeconomics - who cares, as long as we get the money.

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Looks like another $200 million dollars was flushed down the toilet of the green jobs movement. A movement that should definitely be associated with toilets in general.

‘Green jobs’ farm in Colorado sheds jobs after receiving $200M in stimulus funds

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Looks like another $200 million dollars was flushed down the toilet of the green jobs movement. A movement that should definitely be associated with toilets in general.

Kinda like all these Us refineries which are closing even though they get stimulus EVERY YEAR through local and Federal government tax breaks Shady? Wait one minute these aren't green jobs? Yet they are closing and laying people off? Geee I wonder why might not have to do with a side into a second recessions because of Republican cuts? Could it be? Even non green energy jobs are going. You are a Hack.

http://www.commodities-now.com/news/power-and-energy/8067-the-us-refineries-most-at-risk-of-closure.html

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Kinda like all these Us refineries which are closing even though they get stimulus EVERY YEAR through local and Federal government tax breaks Shady? Wait one minute these aren't green jobs?
Greenies love to claim that oil companies get loads of tax breaks but when you look at the details you realize that the greenies count any number of legimate business tax deductions as a 'subsidy'. So your claim is likely BS.
Yet they are closing and laying people off? Geee I wonder why might not have to do with a side into a second recessions because of Republican cuts?
The problem with the US is the economy has been crippled by over regulation and out of control spending. This has undermined business confidence and means many businesses hire people in other countries (if they hire people at all). The way out of this mess is to get the deficit under control by cutting entitlements and to reduce regulation. More stimulus will just make the problem worse at this point. Edited by TimG
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The problem with the US is the economy has been crippled by over regulation and out of control spending. This has undermined business confidence and means many businesses hire people in other countries (if they hire people at all). The way out of this mess is to get the deficit under control by cutting entitlements and to reduce regulation. More stimulus will just make the problem worse at this point.

I'm not too sure anything will make it better in the short term. The coming storm is blowing from Europe, and there's precious little the US can do but hang on.

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Greenies love to claim that oil companies get loads of tax breaks but when you look at the details you realize that the greenies count any number of legimate business tax deductions as a 'subsidy'. So your claim is likely BS.

Please go through and tell me than which ones are legimate business tax deductions.

According to the most recent study by the Congressional Budget Office, released in 2005, capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9 percent, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25 percent for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/04/business/04bptax.html

So oil companies get a tax rate of 9% while most other business is 25%. "All business is equal it is just some more equal then others." This is no different then green energy you just don't like green energy because you think the left loves it and you hate the left. Awesome reasoning.

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So oil companies get a tax rate of 9% while most other business is 25%.
Why don't you read what you link actually says. Oil companies have an effective tax rate on CAPITAL INVESTMENTS of 9% when the normal rate is 25%. All that means is they are allowed to depreciate assets faster than their useful lifetime. It does NOT mean their over all tax rate is less than other companies. When they pay taxes on profits they pay the same amount.

This is a perfect example of the silly games greenies play in order to pretend there are massive fossil fuel subsidies when there are really only a few (~$5 billion per year in the US which is peanuts in a 2 trillion budget).

Edited by TimG
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Why don't you read what you link actually says. Oil companies have an effective tax rate on CAPITAL INVESTMENTS of 9% when the normal rate is 25%. All that means is they are allowed to depreciate assets faster than their useful lifetime. It does NOT mean their over all tax rate is less than other companies. When they pay taxes on profits they pay the same amount.

This is a perfect example of the silly games greenies play in order to pretend there are massive fossil fuel subsidies when there are really only a few (~$5 billion per year in the US which is peanuts in a 2 trillion budget).

Hmmmmmmmm 5 Billion yah try 40 Billion and those are just direct subsidies. Remember that is where Obama wants to start with his saving for the jobs plan. Again you are wrong.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/02/01/us-obama-budget-oil-idUSTRE6103RM20100201

Look at that Punked actually cites sources while Mr. TimG scoffs at outside news Organization and the CBO numbers because "He knows more then the experts and non partisans" whose job it is to look at the numbers. Show me the numbers Tim.

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Hmmmmmmmm 5 Billion yah try 40 Billion and those are just direct subsidies.
Just because Obama says they are subsidies does not mean they actually are. Nor does it mean that eliminating will increase tax revenues. In most cases, those deductions are similar to deductions that every other business gets and repealing them means oil companies will be punitively taxed. It is nothing but pathetic grandstanding.

Here is a more balanced discussion of the various deductions:

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/05/whats-an-oil-subsidy

Mr. TimG scoffs at outside news Organization and the CBO numbers
The CBO numbers talked about effect tax rate on CAPITAL EQUIPMENT which means they were only talking about the rate of depreciation of capital assets. Yet you claimed that was the corporate tax rate that oil companies paid. You either do not read or do not understand your own sources.

In fact, oil companies pay a marginal income rate of 41% compared to 26% for other businesses. That is no subsidy.

Edited by TimG
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  • 3 months later...

The Solyndra fiasco just keeps getting better...

The company plans on paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to clean up its own property in Fremont, Calif., but a separate leased property in nearby Milpitas sits vacant with barrels of unknown chemicals and lead-contaminated equipment, attorneys for the landlord, iStarCTL I L.P., said in recent bankruptcy court filings.

...

“There may be environmental, health and safety issues and regulatory violations at the premises based on the materials the debtor has left behind, which consist, in part, of open containers of unidentified chemical waste and lead processing machinery,” iStar attorney Karen Bifferato wrote in a recent court filing.

AP

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The Solyndra fiasco just keeps getting better...

still flogging this Shady? Of course, although attempts were made to enlighten you on the makeup and risk attachments within the U.S. DOE's Loan Guarantee Program, you feign ignorance... just so you can continue to beat this dead horse.

a ready reference reminder:

once again: Bush admin approved in terms of placing Solyndra within the final complement of businesses seeking funding - near the end of the Bush presidency. Career civil servants carried the final review process for all Bush admin approved companies through the transition between Bush and Obama admins. As I recall, Solyndra was one of 12 companies (perhaps 16, I can't recall for sure) provided funding - how many of those other companies have gone bankrupt, hey Shady? As for the particular Solyndra bankruptcy itself, the one you so willingly and wantonly attempt to tar Obama with, the cause of that bankruptcy is well understood/documented... the Chinese ate Solyndra's lunch (and the rest of the world) in to-market timeliness and competitiveness of pv solar panels. But wait a minute, all that Chinese supremacy would have funneled on through the timeline of the Bush admin!!!

recent results of the independent review of the U.S. DOE's Loan Guarantee Program: consensus statement => "overall, loan guarantees for energy have been successful, cost-effective investments." ... "DOE Loan Guarantee Program Will Cost $2 Billion Less Than Initially Expected"

another study from Bloomberg Government highlights the real fiasco here Shady... how the Republicans tried/try to play politics with Solyndra, showcasing the disproportionate attention given to Soyndra, particularly as that purposeful GOP attention is aimed to obscure the overall success of the DOE's Loan Guarantee Program => BGOV Study: Solyndra Failure Obscures Low-Risk Energy Guarantees

The collapse of Solyndra LLC, the California-based solar module manufacturer, has provided ammunition for critics who believe the government shouldn’t attempt to pick winners among emerging energy technologies. Investigations by the Republican-controlled House of Representatives have generated rancor that threatens to obscure the bipartisan consensus that created the Department of Energy’s Loan Program Office under President George W. Bush.

A Bloomberg Government Study, “Beyond Solyndra: An Analysis of DOE’s Loan Guarantee Program,” provides an in-depth look at the DOE loan-guarantee initiatives and the 28 energy projects that received $16.1 billion in loan guarantees under the 2009 American Reinvestment and Recovery Act.

The study concludes that 87 percent of the $16.1 billion in loan guarantees is backing 18 power generation projects, which have a low risk of default because they were required to have buyers for their power output. Ten manufacturing, fuel production and storage projects, which make up the remaining 13 percent of the portfolio value, were not required by DOE to find buyers in order to receive guarantees.

and, best of all, a tidy graphic to showcase just what the GOP accomplished during its failed attempt to politicize Solyndra: Buptkiss!

keep flogging Solyndra Shady... this post will be an easy MLW search away!

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How can any normal person resist that economic bonanza?

setting aside your woeful attempt to appear clever/funny, clearly... you should ask for additional feedback - you should ask the many private investors and high-profile venture capital firms that analyzed Solyndra to be a worthwhile investment (risk)... to the tune of hundreds of millions of their own investment dollars. Or, perhaps you should ask the Wall Street Journal that named Solyndra as it's top pick of venture-backed clean-technology companies.

having just now in recent days passed the one-year anniversary of the GOP witch-hunt, as I said:

and, best of all,
during its failed attempt to politicize Solyndra: Buptkiss!

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Solyndra = Failed. Bankrupt. Broke. By definition.

Spin it anyway you like, setting your hopes on the future based on "renewable" energy is nothing more than Don Quxiote tilting at wind mills.

If the money that is spent on useless and hopeless pipe dreams of developing wind or sun energy were spent on research developing energy by clean burning coal cleanly, there would be no false claims of being correct either way.

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Solyndra = Failed. Bankrupt. Broke. By definition.

so what? It's only one company within the overall portfolio that the U.S. DOE 'Loan Guarantee Program' funded... the overall program independently reviewed/assessed as, 'successful; cost effective'. And, of course, you fail to recognize/acknowledge that it failed because it couldn't cost effectively meet the incredible demand for its product... being undercut, as is the whole world, by like Chinese product development.

Spin it anyway you like, setting your hopes on the future based on "renewable" energy is nothing more than Don Quxiote tilting at wind mills.

yours is the typical blustering no-nothingness that prefers to set up false dichotomies for your own personal agenda... your is the ultimate tilting at windmills, as no thinking, understanding proponents of alternative energies expect fossil-fuels to be outright replaced. Rather, there will be a mix, a balancing mix that brings forward a reduced reliance upon fossil-fuels.

If the money that is spent on useless and hopeless pipe dreams of developing wind or sun energy were spent on research developing energy by clean burning coal cleanly, there would be no false claims of being correct either way.

and proven, scalable CCS will be a part of that mix... but, hey now, you're on loose footings around here will all these MLW fake skeptics decrying the myth of clean coal! In any case, don't you know - fracking is the name of the fake skeptics game now... coal is so passe!

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still flogging this Shady?

If flogging means holding governments accountable for wasted tax dollars and failed policies, then yes. Once again, it was the Obama administration that fast-tracked the Solyndra guarantees. The Bush administration asked for an independent review before going forward. However, Obama didn't wanna wait for said review. He was willing to gamble billions of dollars roulette style with government loan guarantees.

It's revealing though. Because in the case of the Keystone project, Obama wants review after review, after review. And that project involves zero government guarantees, and will create thousands of jobs, and will result in an increase in oil and refined gasoline into the United States.

Job destruction 101.

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If flogging means holding governments accountable for wasted tax dollars and failed policies, then yes. Once again, it was the Obama administration that fast-tracked the Solyndra guarantees. The Bush administration asked for an independent review before going forward. However, Obama didn't wanna wait for said review. He was willing to gamble billions of dollars roulette style with government loan guarantees.

again, you feign ignorance... or, you are...

again, the U.S. DOE program is designed with 'risk in mind'... how come you're so silent on commenting on the independent reviews of the overall program, hey Shady? :lol: Why aren't you so ShadyHot&Bothered over the equity firm losses associated with Solyndra?

in all your blustering about, "holding governments accountable", why not state just what the GOP has realized, has uncovered, in it's year long obsession with Solyndra. Would that because, the GOP has failed to turn up any single account of government malfeasance, corruption, or wrong-doing in regards to Solyndra... across both the Bush and Obama participation in the DOE Loan Guarantee Program.

It's revealing though. Because in the case of the Keystone project, Obama wants review after review, after review. And that project involves zero government guarantees, and will create thousands of jobs, and will result in an increase in oil and refined gasoline into the United States.

Job destruction 101.

more over-the-top Shady talking points rhetoric! You have already been shown the minimal job impact associated with KXL. You have already been informed on where the bulk of the expansion is market targeted. You are now making shyte up about, 'review after review after review'.

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  • 1 month later...

clearly, this post didn't dissuade the continued Shady misrepresentations... as just a few days ago further professorial splendour was dispensed with a Shady shout-out to "another Solyndra". Essentially another update straight from the right-wing echo chamber.

however, there is a problem - one being ignored by the perpetrator!

A $2 billion solar mistake — from the media

Monday’s news that yet another solar company that received Energy Department backing is filing for bankruptcy protection at first looked like the Obama administration had funded another expensive loser.

But unlike Solyndra’s high-profile and costly flameout, this time the news came with a twist that tripped up wire services, talking heads and members of Congress.

The company, Solar Trust, never took the money.

The misunderstanding underscores the complexities of DOE’s loan guarantee program, the uncertainty of the global solar market and the eagerness of many in the media to discover the next Solyndra.

Right-leaning blogs and websites seized on the news with headlines blaring about $2 billion of taxpayers’ money lost — even if the accompanying story correctly noted that Solar Trust never got a dime.

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clearly, this post didn't dissuade the continued Shady misrepresentations... as just a few days ago further professorial splendour was dispensed with a Shady shout-out to "another Solyndra". Essentially another update straight from the right-wing echo chamber.

however, there is a problem - one being ignored by the perpetrator!

A $2 billion solar mistake — from the media

Shady fell for this one just the other day waldo.

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More news about Obama's failed crony captialsim.

Stimulus recipient under investigation for insider trading

A company awarded $126.2 million in stimulus taxpayer funds from the U. S. Department of Energy is under investigation for insider trading according to a federal subpoena obtained by CBS News

CBS

And.....

Audit: Treasury's review of Solyndra 'rushed'

The Treasury Department's review of Solyndra's $535 million federal loan guarantee was "rushed" through in about one day in March 2009, "based on an expedited review request from DOE so that a press release could be issued," according to a Treasury inspector general report that gives further evidence of the early Obama administration's eagerness to announce progress in funding clean energy.

Politico

Obama sure knows how to pick'em! :rolleyes:

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More news about Obama's failed crony capitalism.

Obama sure knows how to pick'em! :rolleyes:

still channeling Breitbart, hey? :lol:

only you could take an insider trading investigation and tag that back to Obama! In any case, your failed obsession with Solyndra was quite easily dispatched earlier:

recent results of the independent review of the U.S. DOE's Loan Guarantee Program: consensus statement => "
overall, loan guarantees for energy have been successful, cost-effective investments.
" ... "
DOE Loan Guarantee Program Will Cost $2 Billion Less Than Initially Expected
"

another study from Bloomberg Government highlights the real fiasco here Shady... how the Republicans tried/try to play politics with Solyndra, showcasing the disproportionate attention given to Soyndra, particularly as that purposeful GOP attention is aimed to obscure the overall success of the DOE's Loan Guarantee Program =>

as MLW member 'punked' asked you earlier Shady... why are you rooting for the Chinese? :lol:

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still channeling Breitbart, hey? :lol:

Huh? Citing the associated press and the Treasury inspector general is channeling Breitbart? :blink:

Anyways, like they've said...

The Treasury Department's review of Solyndra's $535 million federal loan guarantee was "rushed" through in about one day in March 2009, "based on an expedited review request from DOE so that a press release could be issued," according to a Treasury inspector general report that gives further evidence of the early Obama administration's eagerness to announce progress in funding clean energy.

Politico

Aren't facts stubborn things sometimes? :)

as MLW member 'punked' asked you earlier Shady... why are you rooting for the Chinese? :lol:

Only you root for the Chinese. Remember. They're allowed to build coal-fire power plants, but we're not. They're allowed to explore and extract oil all over the world. But we're not. I root against failed crony capitalism. Your environmentalist ponzi schemes rely on it.

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