CitizenX Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 It is my view that Corporations are evil entities. So why do I believe this? Before I give my reasons lets look at some definitions. Corporation - an association of individuals, created by law or under authority of law, having a continuous existence independent of the existences of its members, and powers and liabilities distinct from those of its members. - dicionary.com A corporation is a legal entity that is created under the laws of a state designed to establish the entity as a separate legal entity having its own privileges and liabilities distinct from those of its members. Despite not being natural persons, corporations are recognized by the law to have rights and responsibilities like natural persons ("people") - Wikipedia Note: when I refer to Corporation I am for the most part talking about Large/Multi Nationals Corporate personhood - refers to the question of which subset, if any, of rights afforded under the law to natural persons should also be afforded to corporations as legal persons. Evil - Evil is usually seen as the dualistic opposite of good. Good = Empathy and Compassion Empathy - is the capacity to recognize and, to some extent, share feelings (such as sadness or happiness) that are being experienced by another sentient or semi-sentient being Some psychiatric disorders, including autism, antisocial personality disorder, and narcissistic personality disorder, have been associated with a lack of ability to empathize (or experience empathy). Compassion - (from Latin: "co-suffering") is a virtue — one in which the emotional capacities of empathy and sympathy (for the suffering of others) are regarded as a part of love itself, and a cornerstone of greater social interconnection and humanism — foundational to the highest principles in philosophy, society, and personhood. So why do I call Corporations Evil? Corporations are inherently, and intrinsically evil legal entities (persons) created by man. If we look at the corporation as a legal person, it exhibits all the characteristics of a psychopath using a personality diagnostic checklist by the World Health Organization. Like Dr. Frankenstein’s monster, his creation, has overwhelmed and overpowered him, as the corporate form has done with us. Like vampires, they are immortal unless dissolved. The Corporations only concern is to create profits for shareholders, resulting in profits over people. They are required by law to place the financial interests of their owners above competing interests. In fact, the corporation is legally bound to put its bottom line ahead of everything else, even the public good. Profits before people. According to Lord Chancellor Haldane, ...”a corporation is an abstraction. It has no mind of its own any more than it has a body of its own; its active and directing will must consequently be sought in the person of somebody who is really the directing mind and will of the corporation, the very ego and centre of the personality of the corporation”. Herein Lies the Problem, and part of the reason that Corporation do evil. A CEO’s job is to create profits by any means, if he/she fails they are replaced. This creates a evolutionary system where the most ethically delinquent, narcissistic, morally corrupt persons rise to the top. None of whom will take any legal responsibility for the actions of the Corporation. A corporation can be responsible for murder, but because this entity has no actual body it cannot be imprisoned. It is only required to pay a fine. If a fine is less than the costs of doing the right thing like cleaning up a oil spill, they will pay the fine every time. The reason that corporations are able to get away with evil acts is because the owners (shareholders) turn a blind eye to their actions. They defer responsibility away from themselves for how their investments are used. They only want to make money, and don’t really care where it comes from. In conclusion, if corporation are legal persons, and as a person exhibits all the characteristics of a psychopath. And one of the symptoms of a psychopath is a lack of ability to empathize (or experience empathy). And from my definition of Evil being the absence of Empathy. Ergo Corporations are evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Corporations are an artificial monstrosity that destroy any possibility of a "free market". They shouldn't exist. They are a mistake that humans made but, I don't think that I'd call them evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Corporations are an artificial monstrosity that destroy any possibility of a "free market". They shouldn't exist. They are a mistake that humans made but, I don't think that I'd call them evil. Why not? What is your definition of evil? The sad thing is most people don't know what the difference is between Free Market Capitalism (Good) and Monopolistic Capitalism.Monopolistic Capitalism is one of the true enemies of Freedom Edited August 30, 2011 by CitizenX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Corporations are not supposed to be either good or evil. The only real diference between a corporation and a proprietorship is how they get funding. Businesses in general are good in that they provide us with a lot of the things we want and need... and theoretically the rules of the game should prevent most of the negative side effects by regulating their behavior. Corporations are an artificial monstrosity that destroy any possibility of a "free market". No possibility of a free market exists in the first place, either with or without corporations, simply because its not in our nature. Humans are naturally predisposed to the idea of central authorities (whether they are ancient tribal councils, monarchs, or modern democracies) and those authorities will always place constraints on the actors in an economy. Thats why you dont see any free markets. You see mixed economies and directed economies and regulated economies. Edited August 30, 2011 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) If we only demand that corporations are accountable for profit, then that's all they'll measure. If we make our governments and corporations accountable for their full impact on society and the environment as well as the economy, then that's what they'll measure, report and be held accountable for: From Wiki, General Progress Indicators: "GPI is an attempt to measure whether a country's growth, increased production of goods, and expanding services have actually resulted in the mprovement of the welfare (or well-being) of the people in the country. GPI advocates claim that it can more reliably measure economic progress, as it distinguishes between worthwhile growth and uneconomic growth." However, we have to raise our collective voices to demand government regulation of corporations. I believe it is more accurate to say that we have allowed corporations to operate in a destructive manner, for the jobs we need and the consumption we crave and I think it is all understandably human error in measurement. Edited August 30, 2011 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 theoretically the rules of the game should prevent most of the negative side effects by regulating their behavior. Yes, but when Corporations are in control of the people creating the rules things go very wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I believe it is more accurate to say that we have allowed corporations to operate in an destructive manner. No one wants to touch the "Evil" word? Psychopaths operate in our society in a "destructive manner". Are you saying they aren't evil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Yes, but when Corporations are in control of the people creating the rules things go very wrong. Yes but that didnt happen because corporations are "evil" it happened because we are stupid. In any case that problem could happen whether our businesses were corporations, or proprietorships. The longer the system is around the better special interests will get at gaming it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Yes but that didnt happen because corporations are "evil" it happened because we are stupid. In any case that problem could happen whether our businesses were corporations, or proprietorships. The longer the system is around the better special interests will get at gaming it. No it happened because of the political power they wield. Corporate personhood is where it all went wrong. A normal proprietorships could never gain the power that modern corporation have. Edited August 30, 2011 by CitizenX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Corporate personhood is where it all went wrong. A normal proprietorships could never gain the power that modern corporation have. Why? Why couldnt an industrial association still lobby the government behalf of all the private companies in that industry? I would wager that the cozy relationship between government and industry has been around an awful lot longer than corporations as they are known today... thousands of years probably. Edited August 30, 2011 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Why? Why couldnt an industrial association still lobby the government behalf of all the private companies in that industry? I would wager that the cozy relationship between government and industry has been around an awful lot longer than corporations as they are known today... thousands of years probably. I suppose if corporate personhood was abolished that could be the case. But how can a private company or many compete against a multi-national company that has a revenue greater than some countries. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzPgIudSA00 Edited August 30, 2011 by CitizenX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 .... But how can a private company or many compete against a multi-national company that has a revenue greater than some countries. They can compete the same way they always have...with superior products and services, customer support, and innovation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 They can compete the same way they always have...with superior products and services, customer support, and innovation. Or just dont bother competing. A lot of upstarts are started as products themselves and sold to bigger businesses as soon as they are established enough to be products themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Or just dont bother competing. A lot of upstarts are started as products themselves and sold to bigger businesses as soon as they are established enough to be products themselves. Indeed, and this is how many "evil corporations" come to be so large, by buying such ideas and products from the little guy, who is happy to sell for a handsome gain. Those who don't can still stay in business by offering the very best, at any price, and customers will beat a path to their door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Indeed, and this is how many "evil corporations" come to be so large, by buying such ideas and products from the little guy, who is happy to sell for a handsome gain. Those who don't can still stay in business by offering the very best, at any price, and customers will beat a path to their door. yes but this all started with who has more political power. Not how corporations become big. Edited August 30, 2011 by CitizenX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Yes and there the kinds like Wal-Mart. Who because they use suppliers that use slave labour, sell products for less than anyone else. Sam Walton started out as a small retailer with other chain stores...he was able to grow his business into the successful enterprise it is today. If you can't compete with that, don't complain or whine about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Sam Walton started out as a small retailer with other chain stores...he was able to grow his business into the successful enterprise it is today. If you can't compete with that, don't complain or whine about it. I don't know the whole history of Wal Mart. I'm taking about their business practices today. Do you believe that they indirectly use slave labour to make a profit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) I don't know the whole history of Wal Mart. I'm taking about their business practices today. Do you believe that they indirectly use slave labour to make a profit? Obviously you don't....and they don't use "slave labour" either directly or indirectly. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. have a net profit margin of less than 4%. The point is that Sam Walton was the "little guy" that you say can't/couldn't compete with big corporations (e.g. Sears Roebuck or Montgomery Wards). Edited August 30, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Obviously you don't....and they don't use "slave labour" either directly or indirectly. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. have a net profit margin of less than 4%. The point is that Sam Walton was the "little guy" that you say can't/couldn't compete with big corporations (e.g. Sears Roebuck or Montgomery Wards). In Bangladesh women and children are forced to work about 14 hours a day, often seven days a week for wages as low as around 13 cents an hour. This is where Wal Mart gets it's product (indirectly). That's not slave Labour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 In Bangladesh women and children are forced to work about 14 hours a day, often seven days a week for wages as low as around 13 cents an hour. This is where Wal Mart gets it's product (indirectly). That's not slave Labour? Nope....by definition, that is not "slave labour". Go find out what slavery really is....starting in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Nope....by definition, that is not "slave labour". Go find out what slavery really is....starting in Canada. WOW that's cold.....really? ....You could be a CEO Edited August 30, 2011 by CitizenX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 WOW that's cold.....really? ....You could be a CEO You couldn't be a CEO...as you are afraid of facts: The Wage Board on garments in Bangladesh nearly doubled minimum wages on July 29, 2010. The minimum wage at the entry level will be raised to Tk 3,000 a month (or about $43) from Tk 1,662.50 ($24). The new pay structure, proposed to be effective from November 1, maintains the existing seven grades with the highest pay fixed at Tk 9,300 ($140) per month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenX Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) You couldn't be a CEO...as you are afraid of facts: The Wage Board on garments in Bangladesh nearly doubled minimum wages on July 29, 2010. The minimum wage at the entry level will be raised to Tk 3,000 a month (or about $43) from Tk 1,662.50 ($24). The new pay structure, proposed to be effective from November 1, maintains the existing seven grades with the highest pay fixed at Tk 9,300 ($140) per month. minimum wage at the entry level $43 a month / 7 days a week (30 days) = $1.43 a day $1.43 a day/ 14 hours a day = 10 cents an hour highest pay $140 a month/ 7 days a week (30 days) = $4.66 a day $4.66 a day/ 14 hour day = 33 cents an hour Better check my math, but I don't think this helps your argument. A better question is why are you trying to defend this? Edited August 30, 2011 by CitizenX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Q) What is the difference between a corporation and a union? A) Nothing. Both represent groups of people and seek to make a profit for their members. Both are indepedent legal entities which gives them a form of "personhood" under the law. There is nothing nefarious about this and it is necessary for them to serve their purpose. Edited August 30, 2011 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 better check my math Your assumptions for days/hours worked is extreme, by your own admission above. Wages are going up, not down. Find a better sob story for "slave labour". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.