Occupy Wall Street Sept 17 2011

[Bonam]

So you don't mind paying extra taxes because some of the richest people pay far less than they should?

The impact of higher taxes will always hit the middle class. Wherever you put a tax: the rich, corporations, employers, imports, etc, the cost just gets passed along to the consumer. And the biggest consumer is the middle class.

Further, I asked you earlier, who are these billionaires who are not paying what they should. You failed to answer. How many such people are there in Canada? 2? 5? 100? If we could tax them at a higher but still reasonable rate, how much money would that realistically contribute to the government's revenue and would it really change anything about the fundamental issues you seem to have with society?

No, just like Derek and Shady, I too am of the middle class and these protestors certainly do not speak for me. Wall Street screwed up, and perhaps arguably could have used some better regulations to limit the risk they could take and the damage they could do. Doesn't mean we need to uproot the capitalist system and replace it with some kind of hippie commune.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Bonam

[bush_cheney2004]

... Doesn't mean we need to uproot the capitalist system and replace it with some kind of hippie commune.

...at least the Hippie communes actually tried to live off the grid. These fake posers want more of it!

[Guest Derek L]

...at least the Hippie communes actually tried to live off the grid. These fake posers want more of it!

And haven’t yet identified how they will realistically pay for it………

[bush_cheney2004]

And haven’t yet identified how they will realistically pay for it………

Well we are beginning to see the usual co-opting of the "movement" by George Soros, labor unions, MoveOn.org...the usual suspects. They are now most certainly doomed!

[Guest Derek L]

Well we are beginning to see the usual co-opting of the "movement" by George Soros, labor unions, MoveOn.org...the usual suspects. They are now most certainly doomed!

Yup, they are starting to go…..mainstream, full Looney………O’Reily made a good point tonight about Soros……He doesn’t want Socialism…….He wants power.

[Bob]

Shady, jacee uses "democracy" in place of socialism. Jacee believes in an economic democracy, where as long as there are enough votes, certain groups can take what they want (money, wealth, resources, skills, etc) from others. You do realize that jacee is a communist, right, as she shows strong solidarity with the uneducated and unemployed trash in the streets screaming "our streets!" while impeding a major thoroughfare? I am not kidding, she is a straight up communist. The enemy within, literally.

[Oleg Bach]

Shady, jacee uses "democracy" in place of socialism. Jacee believes in an economic democracy, where as long as there are enough votes, certain groups can take what they want (money, wealth, resources, skills, etc) from others. You do realize that jacee is a communist, right, as she shows strong solidarity with the uneducated and unemployed trash in the streets screaming "our streets!" while impeding a major thoroughfare? I am not kidding, she is a straight up communist. The enemy within, literally.

Were not the Judeo Christian ideas of Kabutz and "sell all your property and put the money in a common purse" Ideas - of communistic notions that originated in old Judea? You Bob are the orignal spawn of socialism.

[GostHacked]

Maybe someone can answer this for me.....

http://www.ctv.ca/gallery/html/wall-street-protest-111002/index_.html

Look at the pics of the cops. Do they look like they should be there? Where are the riot cops? I've seen a video where some youtuber analyzes the video, and pins many of them as Soro's Media Matters stage puppets. Some of the people he talks about don't seem to match the pics, but most of them do.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RabCAUl73zc

thoughts??

And if this is the case, what is the reason this is being staged? And what does that mean for the real protesters?

Let me clarify a little .... the guys in the white shirts (cops) are the ones I am referring too. It seems later the real cops (in blue) show up after.

What's going on here?

Edited October 6, 2011 by GostHacked

[Guest Derek L]

Maybe someone can answer this for me.....

http://www.ctv.ca/gallery/html/wall-street-protest-111002/index_.html

Look at the pics of the cops. Do they look like they should be there? Where are the riot cops? I've seen a video where some youtuber analyzes the video, and pins many of them as Soro's Media Matters stage puppets. Some of the people he talks about don't seem to match the pics, but most of them do.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RabCAUl73zc

thoughts??

And if this is the case, what is the reason this is being staged? And what does that mean for the real protesters?

Let me clarify a little .... the guys in the white shirts (cops) are the ones I am referring too. It seems later the real cops (in blue) show up after.

What's going on here?

The ones wearing white shirts are ranked Lieutenant and above.........

[GostHacked]

The ones wearing white shirts are ranked Lieutenant and above.........

Surprised they are on the front line.

[Shady]

The richest 1%.

Actually, you're wrong.

[Shady]

Well we are beginning to see the usual co-opting of the "movement" by George Soros, labor unions, MoveOn.org...the usual suspects. They are now most certainly doomed!

Exactly! It's totally an AstroTurf protest.

[Oleg Bach]

Yup, they are starting to go…..mainstream, full Looney………O’Reily made a good point tonight about Soros……He doesn’t want Socialism…….He wants power.

Socialism is total power - for one person at the expense of all others - we have it growning here - capitialist encourage socialism- It`s like having your own private factory.

[jacee]

Exactly……..By percentage I pay more than the average Canadian and in terms of amount, my household pays nearly double in taxes the national household income…..We won’t pay anymore unless taxes increase across the board……My wife and I would retire early out of spite…..maybe move to Arizona….

Enjoy your retirement.

It's true that those with higher incomes pay more taxes, as it should be.

Except that some of the very wealthy don't.

So the rich will take a hit with the next round of increases, while the wealthiEST get away with paying welfare tax rates.

If you 'won't pay anymore' you should be demanding that the richEST, who control their own tax rates, pay their fair share.

[bush_cheney2004]

....If you 'won't pay anymore' you should be demanding that the richEST, who control their own tax rates, pay their fair share.

Why? How will that help those of us who already pay more, and will just have to pay the additional expenses at the consumer level? Why isn't everybody sharing in the pain if tax revenue is the objective? The so called Bush tax cuts applied to all marginal rates, not just the rich. Nothing will be solved by forcing the 1% to pay more taxes except for political grandstanding points.

The 99% should pay more taxes too if that be the game.

[Shady]

Enjoy your retirement.

It's true that those with higher incomes pay more taxes, as it should be.

Except that some of the very wealthy don't.

So the rich will take a hit with the next round of increases, while the wealthiEST get away with paying welfare tax rates.

If you 'won't pay anymore' you should be demanding that the richEST, who control their own tax rates, pay their fair share.

If your goal is for higher taxes on the rich, shouldn't you and your cohorts be protesting at the white house and the capital building? They're the people that actually makes tax law. They're the people that actually have the power to change things. What exactly do you want some so-called rich person to do? Go to congress and start writing legislation? You don't make any sense at all.

[cybercoma]

I highly suggest you all read that reddit post. You can see how this "movement" is being taken over and interpreted exactly as that supposedly former Tea Partier said.

I think there's a misconception here that this is a left vs right issue and it's not. The right-wing want fiscal responsibility and the fact that the banking industry was bailed out to the tune of billions, ought to concern any free-marketers out on that side of the equation. The point of this entire thing is to open up a discussion about how particular forms of trading and speculation are unstable and unsustainable. It's to talk about how democracy is being undermined by corporate political influence, rather than being about everyone. This is about fixing a serious problem in the world of our political systems turning into the haves vs the have-nots. That should have nothing to do with left vs right because the political spectrum is not about haves vs have-nots.

And make no mistake about it. In North America we are all the haves when you take this to the global scale. We may have a 1% vs 99% debate in our society and I believe things need to change for the better, but moving to a global perspective we are all the 1%. However, change starts here. Our influence is global. The interconnectedness of economies dictates as much. We need to affect change at home before we can change the world.

Edited October 6, 2011 by cybercoma

[jacee]

Actually, you're wrong.

I think you've missed some of the information posted earlier ...

Fully 5% of individuals with ncomes in excess of $3.5 million paid effective tax rates of less than 10% after deductions and credits.

A very few high-income Canadians reduce their taxes to zero

Effective rates vary widely across the income distribution as well as among individuals within the highest income group. Many within the highest income group. Many in the top 0.01% of the distribution face an effective tax rate of over 45%, while some pay as little as 10%.

The tax rates themselves don't tell the whole story. Some of the people with the very highest incomes pay little to no taxes, and thus they retain a disproportionately large amount of the total wealth. Of Canada.

And that is only the wealth they report. Worldwide, it's estimated that one third of the total wealth of the top 1% is stashed in 'tax havens', never taxed as income.

Think about that: The only data we have on the wealthiEST Canadians likely represents only 2/3 of their wealth. Some pay little to no tax even on reported income, and none on the money they stash in tax havens.

Some of the wealthiEST Canadians are not paying their fair share of taxes.

If you work for some of these wealthiEST tax evaders, you are likely paying more money in taxes than they are.

How is that possible? Well first of all the wealthiEST Canadians have power over our governments and they can get tax breaks and 'incentives' passed into law that absolve them of paying taxes. Since these 'laws' are intentionally very complex and convoluted, the public doesn't understand them and since only a very few people are affected, no one pays much attention. Then there is the money stashed in tax havens and not taxed at all.

The result is a few most powerful and wealthiEST Canadians who pay the least in taxes, contributing the least to Canada's wellbeing, while controlling our governments and the economy.

And right now, the agenda of these wealthiEST powerbrokers worldwide is "austerity" for the rest of us, cuts to health, education and all public services, increasing public debt (we pay the interest on that TO THEM), and increasing tax free profits for themselves.

@Derek L

Who are the wealthiEST tax evaders? They can be identified and investigated through federal tax records and investigated for tax compliance.

Who are the ones stashing money UNTAXED in tax havens? They are harder to track but likely can be identified IF ANYONE CHOSE TO DO SO.

Both of these issues are matters for police investigation. However the RCMP are generally reluctant to investigate the wealthiEST powerbrokers who can destroy their careers and their policing budgets And as we saw during the last election and at the G20, the RCMP (and CSIS and other police act as political slaves/henchmen for government and the wealthiEST who control our governments.

This can change IF the public focuses attention on unfairness in taxation and tax evasion to the point that law enforcement can no longer ignore it, as is happening now with the "99%" movement identifying the top 1% as suspect.

We of the 99% have the right to identify the issues. The police, with very strong public support, have the responsibility to identify tax evading Canadian lawbreakers.

Edited October 6, 2011 by jacee

[Bonam]

And make no mistake about it. In North America we are all the haves when you take this to the global scale. We may have a 1% vs 99% debate in our society and I believe things need to change for the better, but moving to a global perspective we are all the 1%. However, change starts here. Our influence is global. The interconnectedness of economies dictates as much. We need to affect change at home before we can change the world.

Not quite 1%. NA is 5% of the world's population. And if you throw in other nations with comparable living standards (europe, japan, sk, etc) its more like 25%.

[bush_cheney2004]

....And make no mistake about it. In North America we are all the haves when you take this to the global scale. We may have a 1% vs 99% debate in our society and I believe things need to change for the better, but moving to a global perspective we are all the 1%.

Ummm..yeah...we have already said this numerous times. But that won't stop somebody here bitching about an American corporation moving their Canadian job to Mexico or China.

However, change starts here. Our influence is global. The interconnectedness of economies dictates as much. We need to affect change at home before we can change the world.

No...that is just more of the same arrogance. The world is going to change with or without "us".

[bush_cheney2004]

...We of the 99% have the right to identify the issues. The police, with very strong public support, have the responsibility to identify tax evading Canadian lawbreakers.

Great...but that includes all the 99 percenters too, especially those who recieve income as part of the underground (cash) economy. Go after them as well...if you dare.

[jacee]

Why? How will that help those of us who already pay more, and will just have to pay the additional expenses at the consumer level? Why isn't everybody sharing in the pain if tax revenue is the objective? The so called Bush tax cuts applied to all marginal rates, not just the rich. Nothing will be solved by forcing the 1% to pay more taxes except for political grandstanding points.

The 99% should pay more taxes too if that be the game.

That depends on the results of police investigations of tax evasion doesn't it?

[bush_cheney2004]

That depends on the results of police investigations of tax evasion doesn't it?

Tax evasion now by 99 percenters has nothing to do with lawful lax avoidance by the 1 percenters. It is clear what your classist objective is, having little to do with lawful tax collection from all.

[jacee]

We know that a larger and increasing proportion of the wealth of Canada is going to the wealthiEST Canadians.

If the 99% were 'the problem', we'd be taking wealth away from them.

Since they are accumulating more and more of our national wealth, we can be confident in finding some predators among the wealthiEST if we start our investigations with them.

We already have laws about confiscation of 'the proceeds of crime' where the 'underground economy' is concerned, and police investigation is the key to this as well.

[maple_leafs182]

Places like the America were capitalistic countries so the tax code was designed for entrepreneurs. That is why the rich pay very little taxes and companies like GE pay no taxes. Just learn the tax code, that is very important thing to know.

Taxing the rich more won't solve any problems. Why not cut the size of the federal government down and tax the poor and middle class less?

I said a while ago that we would see protests come to America, I think what we are seeing now is nothing compared to what we will see. It seems that these protests are getting more organized and I think they will eventually move from wall street to the Federal Reserve banks where they should be.

Why don't you guys look at the hidden tax of inflation as a problem.