What is a Christian?

[betsy]

This topic is inspired by the discussion with Canadien in the other topic, The Bible. It is an interesting question for the situation is not unique. There are those who profess and believe themselves to be Christians, and yet do not adhere nor even believe some of the truths that Jesus Christ had taught.

I would like to emphasize that this is just for the sake of discussion.

I take the position of a Christian who believes that to be a Christian, the most basic requirement will be to believe that everything Jeus Christ - and his Apostles, whom He personally appointed, and taught, to continue His work - revealed, said and instructed are true. By everything, it means all!

Jesus Christ had stated, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life."

Jesus is also The Word.

And as a Christian, it is my duty to try to preserve and spread what Christ - and His Apostles - had preached and taught.

Therefore, it is imperative to know and try to understand the Bible - which is the Word of God - which was also referred to by Christ. That includes the Old Testament.

For how can a Christian know what is the foundation and root of his faith - like the seed in Jesus' parable, surely for something to take root solidly, it ought to be anchored on fertile soil - if he do not know what some of Jesus' preachings is all about?

This topic is dedicated to all Christians.

Edited August 15, 2011 by betsy

[betsy]

I move the discussion between Canadien and I, from page 64 of The Bible to this thread.

Yep, I was talking about your posting. Apt description of them.

No, no, no, there's no mistaking it....you are truly confused.

And how often does it need to be pointed out to you that I am Christian?

See? Why do you say you are a Christian?

Canadien:

Not the same as subscribing to that fraud known as creationism

You call creationism - Christian Creationism - as a fraud!

Canadien

Guess that FACT has to be written in the Bible for you to get it.

You don't even know...that you're anything BUT a Christian. You only think you are. And I don't know why you'd even want to imagine yourself a Christian.

At least that's how you strongly come across.

Explain your position. What do you believe?

Edited August 15, 2011 by betsy

[betsy]

No, no, no, there's no mistaking it....you are truly confused.

On the contrary. I am not confused about your complete ignorance.

Betsy:

See? Why do you say you are a Christian?

Because I am.

Betsy:

You call creationism - Christian Creationism - as a fraud!

Let me clarify. /Creationist" "science", as the attempt by ignorants and charlatans to confuse faith and science and rejct scientific knowledge (such as evolution), is a fraud.

Betsy:

You don't even know...that you're anything BUT a Christian. You only think you are.

At least that's how you strongly come across.

I'll let God be the judge on how good of a Christian I am. Not you.

Betsy:

And I don't know why you'd even want to imagine yourself a Christian.

No surprise there. You barely know anything at all.

Betsy:

Explain your position. What do you believe?

You ask for it. Don't blame me when it makes you look (once again) like a fool.

Let's start with..

What is said in the Apostle's Creed.

That God is My Saviour

Matthew 5, 1-12, Matthew 25, 31-46 (mong other texts)

That the Bible is the Word of God

Now a bit about what I do not believe in:

that the Bible is meant to be taken literally

That the Bible is to be taken aand used as a science textbook

That the theory of evolution is anything but sound scientific knowledge

And... that you are anything but joke.

If you feel the need to embarass yourself further in response, do it quick. 50 minutes or so before I leave for... church.

No. You start from the very BEGINNING. How it all began.

Do you believe that God is the Creator? Or...

...That God - whom Jesus referred to as The Father - is the INTELLIGENT DESIGNER?

Edited August 15, 2011 by betsy

[Shwa]

It is an interesting question for the situation is not unique. There are those who profess and believe themselves to be Christians, and yet do not adhere nor even believe some of the truths that Jesus Christ had taught.

It is an epistemological problem since the record of what "Jesus Christ taught" is incomplete and that the remaining record could have - and likely was - altered to suit some purpose or another throughout the various ages. Then there is the problem of interpretation...

I believe a self-admitted Christian is someone who lives their life, to the best of their ablity, according to the most positive interpretation of the basic teachings that are found in the Gospels. This person will usually have a faith that this mode of living is sound and worthwhile for themselves and for their interaction with others. The best Christians I know do not proselytize since the example of their living is evidence enough of the positive attributes of their faith.

[Michael Hardner]

Since there is no widely agreed-upon definition of Christian, though, you almost have to allow people to define themselves as Christians or not. Someone who believes part of the books of Christian teachings could consider themselves a 'Christian'.

[M.Dancer]

I only know one Christian, but there are no doubt others....

His name is Christian Lavergne.

He is most positively a Christian.

I met Jesus in a bar in Florida. He was a gardener.

[Oleg Bach]

A Christian is a person that never attends a church, It is a person of free will and of free mind - It is a person that never fears the state - a person that NEVER reveals who they are - and above all - Christianity is not a religion - but a powerful independed state of mind.

[Oleg Bach]

Also - a Christian never repeats and repeats the lords name in vain (vanity) When you hear someone that says Jesus - Jesus _ Jesus this and Jesus that - you know they are a demon hiding behind the cloak of the master....Christians do not worship Mary - nor do they heed the words of Paul - or Peter...Christians only know a tiny bit of scripture - only the words that came from the masters mouth..and no other.

[dre]

This topic is inspired by the discussion with Canadien in the other topic, The Bible. It is an interesting question for the situation is not unique. There are those who profess and believe themselves to be Christians, and yet do not adhere nor even believe some of the truths that Jesus Christ had taught.

I would like to emphasize that this is just for the sake of discussion.

I take the position of a Christian who believes that to be a Christian, the most basic requirement will be to believe that everything Jeus Christ - and his Apostles, whom He personally appointed, and taught, to continue His work - revealed, said and instructed are true. By everything, it means all!

Jesus Christ had stated, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life."

Jesus is also The Word.

And as a Christian, it is my duty to try to preserve and spread what Christ - and His Apostles - had preached and taught.

Therefore, it is imperative to know and try to understand the Bible - which is the Word of God - which was also referred to by Christ. That includes the Old Testament.

For how can a Christian know what is the foundation and root of his faith - like the seed in Jesus' parable, surely for something to take root solidly, it ought to be anchored on fertile soil - if he do not know what some of Jesus' preachings is all about?

This topic is dedicated to all Christians.

The bible is most definately NOT the word of god. It is the result of a political process in which a large body of christian writings, many of them in conflict and at odds with each other, were arbitrarily selected or rejected, and many of the writings were declared heresy, destroyed or burned.

The reality is that you dont know who wrote the bible or how it was written and compiled, and you dont know which parts were specifically excluded.

Beyond that Christianity is a religion... and christians are simply people that choose to join one of the many diferent Christian sects.

Edited August 15, 2011 by dre

[Oleg Bach]

The bible is most definately NOT the word of god. It is the result of a political process in which a large body of christian writings, many of them in conflict and at odds with each other, were arbitrarily selected or rejected, and many of the writings were declared.

The reality is that you dont know who wrote the bible or how it was written and compiled, and you dont know which parts were specifically excluded.

Beyond that Christianity is a religion... and christians are simply people that choose to join one of the many diferent Christian sects.

Never remember anything written that stated Jesus - wanted to start a religion..an orgainized world wide in-corporation that had many offices and sects...really I simply do not believe that Christianity ever survived in it's true form once Chirst was killed...You must go to the very begining to understand the concept - and remove every last apostic saying and de-saint every saint to get to the core...If it was real Christianity - there would be world peace...and there is none.

[Michael Hardner]

Beyond that Christianity is a religion...

I don't think you can call it a religion. It's a philosophy upon which a set of religions is based.

I think it's possible to be Christian without being religious.

[dre]

I don't think you can call it a religion. It's a philosophy upon which a set of religions is based.

I think it's possible to be Christian without being religious.

I dont really see how. Everything we know and believe about Jesus comes from the bible which is the churches handbook that IT published. I cant quite see how a christian could exist outside of this framework. Can you ellaborate on how that would work?

[Michael Hardner]

I dont really see how. Everything we know and believe about Jesus comes from the bible which is the churches handbook that IT published. I cant quite see how a christian could exist outside of this framework. Can you ellaborate on how that would work?

I don't understand your point either. The philosophy of Jesus was published by an organization, that has since splintered and declined - and so ? What's to stop somebody from reading the book and deciding that they like what's in it ?

[jacee]

Who decides who is a 'real' Christian?

Who decides who is a 'real' Muslim?

I'll bet it depends on whether they contribute MONEY to a church that has tax-free status - ie, legal, government approved status. :lol:

I believe that those who persist in pushing their religion on others are more followers of Paul the Roman who institutionalised the corporate church, than Jesus who simply drew people to him.

[betsy]

Since there is no widely agreed-upon definition of Christian, though, you almost have to allow people to define themselves as Christians or not. Someone who believes part of the books of Christian teachings could consider themselves a 'Christian'.

There is a clear definition of a Christian in the Bible.

1Peter 4

Suffering for Being a Christian

12 Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15 If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler.

16 However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. 17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

And definitely, belief in God is a requirement. Please take special note on verses 16 and 17.

16 However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. 17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

"and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God"

Us, meaning, Christians.

Praise God that you bear that name - Christian.

So he is saying...

A Christian not only believes in God....but he also obeys the gospel of God.

Therefore, the Christian I mean in this topic, is the Biblical Christian. Not the secularist...or the relativist...or the trendy or fad christian.

Edited August 16, 2011 by betsy

[betsy]

Acts 11

The Church in Antioch

19 Now those who had been scattered by the persecution that broke out when Stephen was killed traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, spreading the word only among Jews. 20 Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus. 21 The Lord’s hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord.

22 News of this reached the church in Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch. 23 When he arrived and saw what the grace of God had done, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts. 24 He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.

25 Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Acts 26

28Then Agrippa said to Paul, "Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?"

29 Paul replied, “Short time or long—I pray to God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains.”

And by Paul's response, it is clearly indicated that a Christian is what Paul is. And with Paul's background before becoming an Apostle - the message is clear.

Edited August 16, 2011 by betsy

[betsy]

Before Paul- Saul of Tarsus - became a believer in Christ, he hunted down and persecuted Christians. Here is a a little explanation of what he was and how he came to believe.

Acts 26

1 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You have permission to speak for yourself.”

So Paul motioned with his hand and began his defense: 2 “King Agrippa, I consider myself fortunate to stand before you today as I make my defense against all the accusations of the Jews, 3 and especially so because you are well acquainted with all the Jewish customs and controversies. Therefore, I beg you to listen to me patiently.

4 “The Jewish people all know the way I have lived ever since I was a child, from the beginning of my life in my own country, and also in Jerusalem. 5 They have known me for a long time and can testify, if they are willing, that I conformed to the strictest sect of our religion, living as a Pharisee. 6 And now it is because of my hope in what God has promised our ancestors that I am on trial today. 7 This is the promise our twelve tribes are hoping to see fulfilled as they earnestly serve God day and night. King Agrippa, it is because of this hope that these Jews are accusing me. 8 Why should any of you consider it incredible that God raises the dead?

9 “I too was convinced that I ought to do all that was possible to oppose the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 10 And that is just what I did in Jerusalem. On the authority of the chief priests I put many of the Lord’s people in prison, and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them. 11 Many a time I went from one synagogue to another to have them punished, and I tried to force them to blaspheme. I was so obsessed with persecuting them that I even hunted them down in foreign cities.

12 “On one of these journeys I was going to Damascus with the authority and commission of the chief priests. 13 About noon, King Agrippa, as I was on the road, I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, blazing around me and my companions. 14 We all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic,[a] ‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’

15 “Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’

“ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

19 “So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven. 20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds. 21 That is why some Jews seized me in the temple courts and tried to kill me. 22 But God has helped me to this very day; so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen— 23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

24 At this point Festus interrupted Paul’s defense. “You are out of your mind, Paul!” he shouted. “Your great learning is driving you insane.”

25 “I am not insane, most excellent Festus,” Paul replied. “What I am saying is true and reasonable. 26 The king is familiar with these things, and I can speak freely to him. I am convinced that none of this has escaped his notice, because it was not done in a corner. 27 King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know you do.”

28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?”

29 Paul replied, “Short time or long—I pray to God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains.”

30 The king rose, and with him the governor and Bernice and those sitting with them. 31 After they left the room, they began saying to one another, “This man is not doing anything that deserves death or imprisonment.”

32 Agrippa said to Festus, “This man could have been set free if he had not appealed to Caesar.”

Edited August 16, 2011 by betsy

[Michael Hardner]

There is a clear definition of a Christian in the Bible.

But would Jesus have approved with what was said about him later ?

I prefer to let him speak for himself - and The Golden Rule is a better summary of what his philosophy means.

[betsy]

But would Jesus have approved with what was said about him later ?

? I don't follow.

I prefer to let him speak for himself - and The Golden Rule is a better summary of what his philosophy means.

Well, you say you believe in Christ because of His teachings. You talk about His philosophy.

So your response is rather confusing.

How did you happen to learn about His teachings and Philosphy? Please explain.

[Michael Hardner]

How did you happen to learn about His teachings and Philosphy? Please explain.

I read them, and they were read to me as a child.

[betsy]

As for Canadien, here's a response from him posted in The Bible. I moved it here since this is the appropriate thread for it.

Betsy:

Canadien, I moved our discussion about being a Christian in a separate topic.

Let's be clear. The fact that I am a Christian is a topic for discussion between me and my Lord and Saviour (and my priest). Not you. Nor am I interested in your attempt at distorting what I say and mistepresentating m'y beliefs so that you push that non-sense insult at science and faith otherwise known as the"Intelligent Design Theory". I said all I need to say about what my faith is, and it is clear enough that there is no need for (mis)interpretation, so it is closed. No matter how many new threads you create so that you can say "Look how right I am, I have all those threads".

Period.

Does that mean you won't answer if you believe that God is the Creator, or the Intelligent Designer?

Edited August 16, 2011 by betsy

[betsy]

I read them, and they were read to me as a child.

From the Bible?

[Michael Hardner]

Yes !

[betsy]

But would Jesus have approved with what was said about him later ?

Please explain. I don't understand what you mean.

[betsy]

Yes !

But those things in the Bible....they were written by authors, who call themselves the Apostles. They claim that Jesus appointed them...taught them....so they can continue to spread His word. They claim Jesus said those things, they claim to have witnessed those things and more. You believe them.