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who are the rioters?


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I don't need to back it up. It's established fact. And I'm not going to allow the conversation to be diverted.["quote]

You mean you can't back it up. Fine by me.

Fine then. But then it just illustrates my original point. Had the original riots in Tunis been crushed there would have been no spread through the Arab world. Had the authorities come out shooting and killed thousands of people, and held itself in power, the mobs in other Arab countries would not have been inspired to have a go too.

And I thought your original point was that the poor in England, Canada, the U.S., etc. should just be silent. I stand corrected. :P

And still, you didn't answer my question.

Actually, I did. Issues of poverty in our societies are complex ones. Societal factors and personal choices play a role, in different ways and in different manners depending on the individual. Not two situations are alike. Sorry if that's not as simplistic as "it,s society's fault" or "it's their own fault".

In what way were the yobs who turned out to riot not treated like human beings?

Treating human beings as human beings mean knowing they have the capacity to make the changes they need to make and that society has a role to play in engaging individuals to effect changes.

It is not a coincidence that the methods used by the policie in New York, Boston, and Los angeles have improved things. They were uncompromising in maintaining law and order, and they engaged community leaders in finding olutions that would decrease violence. It worked.

Instead, what is too often offered as a solution is either pity, that robs people of their dignity, or the "who cares" attitude, which people they have no value. Neither of them is acceptable.

Edited by CANADIEN
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Guest American Woman

The Burger Bar Boys. The Cash or Slash Money Crew. The Bang Bang Gang. These names sound straight out of a dime-store novel, but they're real-life Birmingham gangs — some of the underground armies that spearheaded England's worst riots in a generation. AP ENTERPRISE: UK gangs thrive in August riots

Sounds as if the UK has a growing problem with gangs - and that these gangs played no small role in the rioting/looting.

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Actually, I did. Issues of poverty in our societies are complex ones. Societal factors and personal choices play a role, in different ways and in different manners depending on the individual. Not two situations are alike. Sorry if that's not as simplistic as "it,s society's fault" or "it's their own fault"

Are you a politician, by chance? That's the way politicians 'answer' a question they don't want to answer, by talking around it without ever actually addressing it. I'm rarely impressed by such evasion, even when it's done twice.

Treating human beings as human beings mean knowing they have the capacity to make the changes they need to make and that society has a role to play in engaging individuals to effect changes.

And in what way, then, did the UK fail to treat them like human beings?

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Fine then. But then it just illustrates my original point. Had the original riots in Tunis been crushed there would have been no spread through the Arab world. Had the authorities come out shooting and killed thousands of people, and held itself in power, the mobs in other Arab countries would not have been inspired to have a go too.

Many of the uprisings in North Africa and the middle east started around the same time, so I am not buying your point here at all.

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I think you would appreciate the following editorial that touches on some of your points.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2834278.html

You capture my frustration anyways Cap. Probably Danceboy's too. Its ridiculously simplistic to write an article saying oh look all the rioters weren't all black.

Talk about patronizing simplistic tripe.

Look I am middle of the road. I think I could easily come up with a litany of social theories for why people riot and I am sure you have heard them all. Throw in words like exploitation, inequality something with ISM at the end. You know how it goes.

The fact is though it does not explain why some choose to do other then what others do to make a difference even in the bleakest of situations. It doesn't explain why 2 people can come out of the exact same "desperate" neighbourhood and one remains an angry, unemployed drunk and the other pulls themselves out and despite all odds goes on to contribute positively to society.

We all know both from the same kinds of neighbourhoods and no social science theory explains why some do and some don't in life.

Me I think we can generalize and say permanent unemployment fuels anger, riots, self-destructive lifestyles, sure but its not the only reason. Some of it is social yes. Some of it though is us as individuals and the decisions we choose to make with what we have.

Its probably a bit of both. But I am with you and Le Danceboy on this one. Its just frustrating to here certain indibividuals so intolerant about certain ethnic groups suddenly playing liberal and social caring about non whites and using the rioting as an opportunity to lecture.

Thanks but I need no lecture on why people riot. The bottom line like most of us out there I believe the responsibility for our actions begin and end with us as individuals.

I am not here to morally judge anyone else only to speak for myself and that is, I have failed with certain obstacles and over come others as we all have. But like most people I am tired of people embracing victimhood as an excuse for their idiot self indulgent behaviour if nothing else it patronizes the vast majority of us who choose not to be victims and idiots because of our limitations.

Then again I look to the course of this thread. Its what I would expect.

I think Cap's article was dead on.

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What good is a leader if he is not personal - If he is not himself? What good are poor blacks in Britain when they refuse to put on the yoke of slavery - but expect to enslave others through social policy and secularism? What good is some dumb black kid who's only dream is to have a flat screen TV - and some high branded shoes? It used to be that the young had dreams - they wanted to save the world - they believed in something - these people have never been taught to believe in anything - other than money....welfare - addicts all to small doses of money - and they wait for their monthly fix...and rich old white guys have found a way to profit from these man created animals.

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Many of the uprisings in North Africa and the middle east started around the same time, so I am not buying your point here at all.

As I remember it, it was the success of the uprising in Tunisia which inspired the one in Egypt. And the success of that one which inspired uprisings elsewhere.

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As I remember it, it was the success of the uprising in Tunisia which inspired the one in Egypt. And the success of that one which inspired uprisings elsewhere.

None of the "uprisings" bore the fruit of "success" - To the west it was like a football game - and the underdog scored a few goals, so we cheered. Then we are finding out that there are no good guys on either side..that the middle east is a shit hole run by fanatics with other fanatics in protest. The video clip from Syria - where they are dumping bloodied bodies off a bridge and proclaiming the sweet might of God...was distrubing - One assume that the bodies were of poor protestors....then I learned that it was the protestors that were committing this evil act...so - what does that say? There is no uprising - just a stirring up of more evil.

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As I remember it, it was the success of the uprising in Tunisia which inspired the one in Egypt. And the success of that one which inspired uprisings elsewhere.

These uprisings were some time in the making however. So by your notion, there would be no riots anywhere if Tunisia did not riot. The Arab spring is now the European Summer. But anyways, most of these uprisings most likely have their roots and support from foreign entities, enticing and exciting the populations to rise up. But to what end?

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These uprisings were some time in the making however. So by your notion, there would be no riots anywhere if Tunisia did not riot. The Arab spring is now the European Summer. But anyways, most of these uprisings most likely have their roots and support from foreign entities, enticing and exciting the populations to rise up. But to what end?

The CIA used to love shipping arms into areas in order to de-stablized them- Creating mayhem in the hope of making the future plundering of a nation much easier. Of course there are governmental and corporate instigators working the web to get things happening - and of course stupid common peolpe will march into harms way in the cause of "freedom" - and that stupid now totally warped thing called "democracy".

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The CIA used to love shipping arms into areas in order to de-stablized them- Creating mayhem in the hope of making the future plundering of a nation much easier. Of course there are governmental and corporate instigators working the web to get things happening - and of course stupid common peolpe will march into harms way in the cause of "freedom" - and that stupid now totally warped thing called "democracy".

Quite true! The CIA probably has committed more acts of terrorism abroad as well as at home, than those crazy Muslims many speak of or any other organization on the planet. Remember who helped out Osama's Muhajideen.

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Guest American Woman

GH seems too young to actually recall the Soviet Union in person. Fuzzy memories of colourful parades, perhaps.

If that's true, his history lessons appear to have been selective. Proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

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Oh you are just not following GH zig zag logic....

The CIA helped arm the Mujihadeem

Osama Bin Laden fought with the Mujihadeen

The CIA are engaged in Terrorism in the USA

See how simple it is?

Even Alex Jones could get that one...

Well, now that the thread has gotten even more off topic, but in the end you don't need Alex Jones to tell you that. It was history long before Jones ever got on air. Again feel free to deny/debate those points.

Edited by GostHacked
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Well, now that the thread has gotten even more off topic, but in the end you don't need Alex Jones to tell you that. It was history long before Jones ever got on air. Again feel free to deny/debate those points.

Which point?

Quite true! The CIA probably has committed more acts of terrorism abroad as well as at home, than those crazy Muslims many speak of or any other organization on the planet. Remember who helped out Osama's Muhajideen.

Is there a point in that, or is there "probably" a point?

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