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Goodbye Ralph Klein?


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Most farmers accept this fact, they don't scream for more handouts, they just wonder if they will be able to keep their homes through all of this.

Sorry, that's all I hear is screaming.

Constant bitching and moaning.

If it isn't drought.

or BSE

Then it's prices.

All of this points to too many firms in the market.

Let's tackle the other falacy in your statement: that Air Canada and Bombardier get more money.

Total Paid to Farmers in one year: 1.6 Billion (and that's just one Federal program)

Source: http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/default.asp?Langu..._20010302_e.htm

Total paid to Air Canada through similar disaster program:

100 million

Source: http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/en/Airpolicy/compe...ram_results.htm

Quite a difference there.

However, it's a classic tactic to justify one's wrong doing by pointing out somebody else's.

The fact is: NOBODY SHOULD BE GETTING PORK.

The TAXPAYER should NOT be supporting other people's "ways of life".

And that's exactly what all of these farm income subsidies, and disaster relief, and emergency relief, and insurance scams, and quotas are.

They all screw with the market so we're CONSTANTLY subsidizing too many farms.

It's time to get with the program here people.

The same rules that apply to urban workers should apply to rural workers.

AND NO, don't use that "you'll go hungry" line. Fewer farms, operating on the best land, will be able to respond to our needs.

And if they can't, then the market will respond and we'll get more food.

But can you at least confess your Conservative hypocracy by saying admitting that the line "Government should be out of the business of doing business" and then defending subsidies and outright pork to farmers.

As for compensation: sorry. I don't think that a packing plant that's making hand over fist as a result of BSE should get compensation.

I also don't think that oil execs who own a few head of cattle on their part time ranches should get compensation either.

Compensation should be for those who are in dire need. Not for people who exposed themselves to market risk in the first place, and then come cap in hand for compensation.

It's really the janus face of Conservatives that I really don't like. At least have the hair on your balls to admit that the positions are contradictory.

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And if they can't, then the market will respond and we'll get more food.

And how on earth does this equate? How do you intend that fewer farmers will produce more food? The math just isn't there for this statement. You have never worked on a farm, have you? You got your fancy little education, feel you know what ails the whole damn country. You need to spend some time working on a farm and studying farm economics before you can justify your statements. You know nothing about the real issue. The implications of the farm industry failure goes a lot further than your local grocery store. Be careful of what you wish for, you may just get it and I hope that your job does not relate to agriculture at all because it would be gone too.

Just look at any country that does not have a sound agricultural base. They are what we call third and second world countries. Crash agriculture and you crash the background of any nation. I guess you wouldn't mind going back to the dirty thirties, a time when agriculture was just about wiped out.

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How do you intend that fewer farmers will produce more food?

Easy.

With greater economies of scale, fewer farmers will produce more food.

Witness the past 125 years in Canada, where, thanks to economies of scale and technology, there are millions of fewer farmers producing far, far, far more food.

It's intermediate economics, the LRAC curve, but I'm sure you know about it.

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With greater economies of scale, fewer farmers will produce more food.

No it doesn't, you do not know the fundamentals of producing food. You have absolutely no concept of what goes into making your groceries at your local safeway. Production wise, agriculture is pretty well at it's maximum. How can fewer produce more when they can not force a cow to produce more offspring? How can we effectively produce more pounds of meat per acre than we are now? Yep, technology helps but technology put the bloody industry into the situation we are in now. Feeding meat protiens to a herbivore and we end up with BSE.

And what is the incentive for the fewer to produce more, hence lower prices hence lower profits? What do you think caused the collapse of the hog industry of 97-98? Fewer producing more with less, what a freaking disaster that was. Corporate models do not work for agriculture.

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Playful;the information I am getting is that most of the money went to meat packing plants (many American owned) Yes, I do think any large business should be insured or have a contingency plan to take into consideration disasters within the industry. I feel the same way about these large factory farms. The only ones who need government compensation are those family farmers who cannot handle this type of disaster. They are small businesses that are more a lifestyle than a business and just make a liveable income. I support those businesses because I would not want to see these farms taken over by more of these "factory farms" which are not treating the animals with the respect they deserve.

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Well caesar, I see that you have fallen for the media hype about factory farms hook line and sinker. These so called factory farms are in all reality owned mainly by families also. There are exceptions of course. You also do not realize that an animal that is not treated with respect does not do well whether it is on a family farm or a large operation. It is in any farms best interest to treat animals with respect so they produce better. There is no such thing as a factory farm, these animals are raised exactly the same way as on a smaller farms, it is just on a much larger scale. The exception is organically grown animals.

As I explained, some of the money went to meat packing plants, yes. They do own cattle and feed lots. They bought these cattle off of the farmers, the ones that didn't want to wait for the governement handouts and sold out. Do I agree with them getting the money, not really. Two of the meat packing plants are indeed american owned, they have been owned by the americans for years.

As for insurance, most farmers are involved in insurance programs to help them through short term disasters. BSE is not considered short term.

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hey are small businesses that are more a lifestyle than a business and just make a liveable income

So then, why should we be subsidizing their lifestyle.

And, if we're at our maximum food production, then wouldn't the market reflect that?

Too many firms are in the industry. Time to stop subsidizing lifestyles.

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And, if we're at our maximum food production, then wouldn't the market reflect that?

In what way? We are already producing more than we can consume. If local consumption matched our production, then you would see a much higher price and hence higher profits (theoretically). If you have fewer farms producing for the many, look at price fixing, especially if the killing plants are involved in the process. Just look at Tyson and Carols in the US.

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