Why do women/men shave hair differently?

[August1991]

Entire body - maybe. But a hairless chest is not just 'feminine' (thereby 'queer'), it's also very youthful-looking which appeals to a lot of women as well.

Youthful, but not masculine?

In the past, male body hair denoted age, sophistication and wealth - since young men were poor and didn't have much body hair but older rich men had hair.

Nowadays, maybe a lack of male body hair is a sign of sophistication/wealth since it requires money to remove it. Body hair (male or female) signals poverty because only poor men/women can't afford to remove it. Rich men/women show their wealth by shaving/laser.

Lack of body hair is like straight, white teeth. Only rich people can afford it.

----

But why do women/men shave differently? That is, why do women care more about the colour of their teeth than men? (Do they?)

My opinion on men's body hair is... let the gf/wife decide. Haha. If a shave, wax, or laser hair removal is gonna help make your partner more excited, well, it's a very small price to pay. Converse true too of course, some girls like my luxuriant fur...

After various discussions on this issue, I came to the same conclusion. I'm still trying to understand what this conclusion means for Western Civilization.

Edited June 6, 2011 by August1991

[BC_chick]

Youthful, but not masculine?

In the past, male body hair denoted age, sophistication and wealth - since young men were poor and didn't have much body hair but older rich men had hair.

Nowadays, maybe a lack of male body hair is a sign of sophistication/wealth since it requires money to remove it. Body hair (male or female) signals poverty because only poor men/women can't afford to remove it. Rich men/women show their wealth by shaving/laser.

Lack of body hair is like straight, white teeth. Only rich people can afford it.

You're talking about the effect, I'm talking about the cause. In a society where beauty is defined by age - both male and female - the physical characteristics that are normally attributed to youth can be 'purchased' by those who can afford them.

Lack of body hair and white teeth which you mention are both signs of youth. Add in wrinkle-free skin, thick, long hair... just about any physical characteristic that makes you 'beautiful' is effectively something that makes you look younger.

It naturally follows that the rich can afford to (attempt to) look younger than their non-rich counterparts.

[GostHacked]

Male cyclists and swimmers DO shave their legs...But it's not a fashion statement

This is true, I had not done it myself, but many who I cycled with did. For cycling the reason is road rash, shaved legs drastically minimizes the amount of road rash one gets when wiping out. The hair can get caught on rough surfaces like pavement and rip a good chunk of skin/flesh off you. It's still going to hurt either way. But with the shaved legs is seriously reduces the damage.

[Bonam]

This is true, I had not done it myself, but many who I cycled with did. For cycling the reason is road rash, shaved legs drastically minimizes the amount of road rash one gets when wiping out. The hair can get caught on rough surfaces like pavement and rip a good chunk of skin/flesh off you. It's still going to hurt either way. But with the shaved legs is seriously reduces the damage.

Interesting. For swimmers, I know it's to reduce hydrodynamic drag.

[guyser]

This is true, I had not done it myself, but many who I cycled with did. For cycling the reason is road rash, shaved legs drastically minimizes the amount of road rash one gets when wiping out. The hair can get caught on rough surfaces like pavement and rip a good chunk of skin/flesh off you. It's still going to hurt either way. But with the shaved legs is seriously reduces the damage.

Minor quibble here.

Its not the road rash prevention .

Its the road rash and when it starts to heal, all those little hairs dont get caught in the wound.

I had some road rash , stupidly lied down for a nap later on and pulled a fuzzy blanket over top of me. Yes, hilarity ensued as I pulled off the blanket. Swear words and all.

Edited June 7, 2011 by guyser

[scouterjim]

An Arab insult is , "May you find yourself between the hairy thighs of a woman!"

[Bonam]

You're talking about the effect, I'm talking about the cause. In a society where beauty is defined by age - both male and female - the physical characteristics that are normally attributed to youth can be 'purchased' by those who can afford them.

Lack of body hair and white teeth which you mention are both signs of youth. Add in wrinkle-free skin, thick, long hair... just about any physical characteristic that makes you 'beautiful' is effectively something that makes you look younger.

It naturally follows that the rich can afford to (attempt to) look younger than their non-rich counterparts.

I'm not sure if this is necessarily true, at least for men. Many iconic male celebrities who are widely regarded as good-looking are not that young and do not have a particularly youthful appearance.

The notion of "beauty" comes out of the preferences for the physical characteristics that individuals want when it comes to selection mates. Evolutionary, for males looking for females, that has been reproductive potential, and that is maximized among young females, since they have more child-bearing years left. Hence, youth is equivalent to beauty among females, and this is almost entirely universal among various cultures around the world. On the other hand, males have traditionally been selected for their power, strength, and wealth. As a sign of physical strength and prowess, muscles and scars have often been considered beautiful for men. As a sign of wealth and power and influence, age has been a positive selection factor for males, and in many cases still is.

[BC_chick]

I don't disagree Bonam. In fact, I was aware of the double-standard as I was typing my post.

But things are also changing as we see with the cougar phenomenon. Younger men are being viewed as sexually attractive which brings us back to my point about youthfulness being appealing to some women and not necessarily feminine.

[Oleg Bach]

There is nothing sader than a woman who shaves her upper lip when in the bright light of day she imagines she sees hair...where there is only mild natural fuzz.....once this area is shaved and you kiss her - you sense a slight stubble - this experience boaders on some sort of homo errotic thing - that I find disturbing...it's kind of like kissing a man...lol....actually being of a more eastern mentality - I don't mind hairy armpits on a woman - or hairy legs - BUT if the woman is god awful ugly - let her shave - she needs all the help she can get - now kiss me !

[Oleg Bach]

We have a Chilean girl staying with us - she loves to shave everything...arms legs - hot wax is all over the bathroom....here biggest aspiriation is to be as white as possible and less monkey like - Maybe woman and men shaving is a desperate attempt to escape the part of us that is animal?

[GostHacked]

Minor quibble here.

Its not the road rash prevention .

Its the road rash and when it starts to heal, all those little hairs dont get caught in the wound.

I had some road rash , stupidly lied down for a nap later on and pulled a fuzzy blanket over top of me. Yes, hilarity ensued as I pulled off the blanket. Swear words and all.

That is another good point as well.

[scouterjim]

We have a Chilean girl staying with us - she loves to shave everything...arms legs - hot wax is all over the bathroom....here biggest aspiriation is to be as white as possible and less monkey like - Maybe woman and men shaving is a desperate attempt to escape the part of us that is animal?

Everything?

Edited June 8, 2011 by scouterjim

[August1991]

You're talking about the effect, I'm talking about the cause. In a society where beauty is defined by age - both male and female - the physical characteristics that are normally attributed to youth can be 'purchased' by those who can afford them.

Lack of body hair and white teeth which you mention are both signs of youth. Add in wrinkle-free skin, thick, long hair... just about any physical characteristic that makes you 'beautiful' is effectively something that makes you look younger.

It naturally follows that the rich can afford to (attempt to) look younger than their non-rich counterparts.

Cause? I think we are "programmed" to seek likely child-bearing partners. But then again, I can understand why we might also be "programmed" to find a better grandparent for our grandkids.

We share with amoeba the ability to reproduce and pass on traits. But we humans are complicated and the ability to pass on traits extends beyond genetics. Then again, few of us get to have any direct influence on generations beyond our grandchildren.

[August1991]

This is true, I had not done it myself, but many who I cycled with did. For cycling the reason is road rash, shaved legs drastically minimizes the amount of road rash one gets when wiping out. The hair can get caught on rough surfaces like pavement and rip a good chunk of skin/flesh off you. It's still going to hurt either way. But with the shaved legs is seriously reduces the damage.

I would have thought that hair protects the skin but you may be right. OTOH, matted/bloody hair seems to provide a base for skin regrowth.

I think the cyclist viewpoint is that, given modern medecine, cleanliness/regeneration of skin is not the problem. Hair makes cleaning wounds difficult.

[August1991]

Interesting. For swimmers, I know it's to reduce hydrodynamic drag.

That's what I know too.

Was this guy the first swimmer to shave his head in the Olympics? I suppose women swimmers now do this too.

Its the road rash and when it starts to heal, all those little hairs dont get caught in the wound.

My point above, minus the reference to modern medecine.

The notion of "beauty" comes out of the preferences for the physical characteristics that individuals want when it comes to selection mates. Evolutionary, for males looking for females, that has been reproductive potential, and that is maximized among young females, since they have more child-bearing years left. Hence, youth is equivalent to beauty among females, and this is almost entirely universal among various cultures around the world. On the other hand, males have traditionally been selected for their power, strength, and wealth.

Bonam, you are likely a neophyte in drawing conclusions about how genes that have survived over hundreds of millions of years go about seeking their likely survival.

For example, you state that "youth is equivalent to beauty among females". If I were a male looking for a female to ensure procreation, I would look for a female in her thirties who already has a child. If she's survived until 30, her genes are good. If she has a kid, that means she can bear children.

You also state that males "have traditionally been selected for their power, strength, and wealth." Huh? Given that males (as defined in biology) contribute so little in the procreation process, power, strength and wealth hardly seem male goals to achieve. Why bother? Rather, males would want to sleep with every female available.

In short Bonam, your genes are probably much smarter than your ability to understand them. Across all species that have two sexes, the game between female and male is generally confusing, sophisticated and changing. I suppose that we humans are no different.

---

This hair question has surprised me. Recent technology has reduced costs dramatically to remove body hair. Both men and women seem to want to remove body hair. And yet some men (Joe Biden) spend great sums to have head hair.

Go figure.

Edited June 9, 2011 by August1991

[bloodyminded]

Do you have a cite for that claim?

I had thought it relatively common knowledge (and now I see that it isn't) that removal of female body hair is a 20th century phenomenon--linked strongly to advertising, in order to create a demand for a new order of supply (reversing the stated formulation, as is in fact often the case); further, it was at first a North American phenomenon, and moved into (parts of) Europe even later.

Most of the world's women do not shave.

[August1991]

I had thought it relatively common knowledge (and now I see that it isn't) that removal of female body hair is a 20th century phenomenon...

Most of the world's women do not shave.

Huh?

This hair thing is complicated:

Edited August 23, 2011 by August1991

[Thorn]

My father never had a beard. I have had many beards, moustaches and sideburns. That is the way I am. I do shave, of course, but do it on order to keep myself clean, and to accent my masculine good looks. Mature men are naturally hairy, course, and rough. Women are naturally smoother. Testosterone contributes to body hair growth.

I don't want to shave my entire body, but some men do. My opinion of them is that they're kind of queer.

We do what is culturally expected of us to do. Thus at one point virtually all men had beards. Body hair rules have changed over time, especially for women. Fashion and pornography has had a lot to do with it. As skirts got higher and higher, as bathing suits and lingerie got smaller, women had to shave a lot more, until there was very little left. Then the porn industry basically decreed there would be no hair, and so most of the women I know have gone that route. Now over the past I don't know how many years, the rules have started changing for men, too. Just about any male actor now who is going to be doing a topless scene gets his chest shaved. Remember the days of Magnum PI? When they remake that show, and they will, the new Tom Magnum will have no chest hair. Male models now routinely remove all their visible hair. And, again, I think this is probably due to the influence of the porn industry, a goodly number of men are starting to remove all their pubic hair as well.

Have a look at this google search with just the words 'male model'male model

And this one for shirtless male actors

Fashion is being changed and young men are simply following those changes in the same way as young women did. Who decrees what is in fashion?

[bush_cheney2004]

.... I think this is probably due to the influence of the porn industry, a goodly number of men are starting to remove all their pubic hair as well.

Well, based on this post, it's apparent that you have been heavily influenced by "the porn industry". Just another reason you just love Americans, right?

[Thorn]

Well, based on this post, it's apparent that you have been heavily influenced by "the porn industry". Just another reason you just love Americans, right?

Are you going to follow me all around the site crying because I hurt your feelings?

[Sir Bandelot]

Any excuse to ask people to admit how great America is. That's his shtick. He must be a small man...

[bush_cheney2004]

Are you going to follow me all around the site crying because I hurt your feelings?

No...I just want to count how many times you reference America to define your existence.

[August1991]

We do what is culturally expected of us to do.

Deus ex machina.

Who decided the culture?

---

Thorn, you miss the point.

[wyly]

I had thought it relatively common knowledge (and now I see that it isn't) that removal of female body hair is a 20th century phenomenon--linked strongly to advertising, in order to create a demand for a new order of supply (reversing the stated formulation, as is in fact often the case); further, it was at first a North American phenomenon, and moved into (parts of) Europe even later.

Most of the world's women do not shave.

the archeologist/historian living in my basement disagrees...tells me female body hair removal has been around for thousands of years...it just comes and goes with various cultures for hygenic or fashion reasons...

[Thorn]

Deus ex machina.

Who decided the culture?

---

Thorn, you miss the point.

In western societies, its a strange, unorganized amalgam of cultural leaders from the fashion and film industries. How they arrive at their decisions is not something I ever really understood.