Ontario Fall election

[mentalfloss]

Latest Nanos poll shows the gap between Libs and Conservatives is now even closer! Libs just went up by almost 2% and Tories are hovering around the the 35% mark..

Liberals 31.9

PC 35.4

NDP 22.8

Green 4.1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_general_election,_2011#Opinion_polls

[William Ashley]

I just got to say you are an idiot if you don't realize the importance of the Oak Ridges Moraine. Learn about about what moraines do and how many of them feed the Toronto area.

Toronto is actually best suited for agricultural endevours, one of the best farm lands in Canada next to the Okanagan valley in BC.

Environmental policy is inherently GOOD for us, because we need it to survive.

Unfortunately people who don't know how to "live sustainably" destroy nature in progressive amounts. That is a problem.

DEVELOPMENT is not bad, but unintelligent development that becomes more costly to correct than the benefit gained from destruction of that environment is an overall loss.

Ecosystems interact, you ruin one part you risk ruining the whole thing.

ORM is VERY important for the GTA.

I just had to comment because your statement that seemed to purport endangering the ORM was just too uneducated not to reply to.

There is fallout when you start to rip up parts of nature that spread well beyond the effected zone, and have REAL effects on humans over the mid term. Many of the health problems we have today are due to despoilment of the environemnt - the air, the water. The costs of cleanup are HUGE and often do not return nature to what it once was because it can take 100 years (or longer) to regrow things. Trees can live hundreds and hundreds of years.. They give usable food, and reusable tinder, amongst other things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Ridges_Moraine

There is just way to much waste production that goes well beyond needs when renewable resources could be used for the same utility. The generations of stupidity needs to die. Plastics for instance 99% of the time are NOT our friend, we could use natural fibers to the same effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_fiber

There is no reason to develope ORM when abundant "SPACE" exists above and below ground in already urbanized areas. Tons of urban sprawl that could give way to medium or high density housing.

We need more smart green condos not sprawl.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_sprawl (See section 6)

Urban sprawl in the GTA has ruined some of the best farm land in Canada.

Edited September 6, 2011 by William Ashley

[Slim MacSquinty]

I just got to say you are an idiot if you don't realize the importance of the Oak Ridges Moraine. Learn about about what moraines do and how many of them feed the Toronto area.

Toronto is actually best suited for agricultural endevours, one of the best farm lands in Canada next to the Okanagan valley in BC.

Environmental policy is inherently GOOD for us, because we need it to survive.

Unfortunately people who don't know how to "live sustainably" destroy nature in progressive amounts. That is a problem.

DEVELOPMENT is not bad, but unintelligent development that becomes more costly to correct than the benefit gained from destruction of that environment is an overall loss.

Ecosystems interact, you ruin one part you risk ruining the whole thing.

ORM is VERY important for the GTA.

I just had to comment because your statement that seemed to purport endangering the ORM was just too uneducated not to reply to.

There is fallout when you start to rip up parts of nature that spread well beyond the effected zone, and have REAL effects on humans over the mid term. Many of the health problems we have today are due to despoilment of the environemnt - the air, the water. The costs of cleanup are HUGE and often do not return nature to what it once was because it can take 100 years (or longer) to regrow things. Trees can live hundreds and hundreds of years.. They give usable food, and reusable tinder, amongst other things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Ridges_Moraine

There is just way to much waste production that goes well beyond needs when renewable resources could be used for the same utility. The generations of stupidity needs to die. Plastics for instance 99% of the time are NOT our friend, we could use natural fibers to the same effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_fiber

There is no reason to develope ORM when abundant "SPACE" exists above and below ground in already urbanized areas. Tons of urban sprawl that could give way to medium or high density housing.

We need more smart green condos not sprawl.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_sprawl (See section 6)

Urban sprawl in the GTA has ruined some of the best farm land in Canada.

Highminded pukes like you are the problem, the GTA pumps its drinking water out of its own toilet, not the ORM, I've been in this business for the past 20 years, I also own a significant chunk of protected land and drink the water from it, grow and eat food from it, use firewood from it heat my home in part and probably better understand self sustaining living than you might ever get the chance to. But you need to read the act, because its nothing more than an ingenious device to fool the likes of you, who are so egear to demonstrate your caring for the environment, not by spending your own money to own and protect it, but by telling other people what they should and shouldn't do. Read it, line up the maps with the aggregate resource map, go to the land titles office and look who's buying it up watch as Dufferin and Lafarge carve larger and larger holes in it then come back and try and give me a lecture.

Meanwhile there are little towns out there who cannot grow enough to sustain their grocery stores or gas stations, little family farms are being sold out every day to become the hobby horse farms for rich city people, get your little wikipedia working to see how sustainable and the great environmental benefit of your Volvo driving, cabernet sipping squire's horse farm.

Then do the same and see what an aggregate mine looks like, and see all the diesel equipment that runs and leaks oil and fuel just a foot or so above the watertable that I drink from a then remind me how your interest in the moraine is greater than mine.

I've got the dirt under my finger nails pal, I know what good farmland is, I don't need some smug urban jerk to try and explain it to me because I'm a hick. I've not suggested turning it into a subdivision you city people can live in the mess you made for yourselves, but get your damn noses out my business, you can shove your TTC right up where the sun don't shine, I won't tell you how to do it. But unless you want to buy my land from me to turn into some park that helps to salve your under developed conscience then bugger off.

The McGuinty government is the closest to the development industry, who do you think pulled this off, this was under the guidance of former finance minsiter, a huge developer with family interests in a pile of construction, materials and developement companies. He and his ilk could care less about the ORM or your envirnomental religion.

[Boges]

I'm curious what Slim thinks about Standardbred horse racing then.

It's something that the McGuinty government has really screwed up in the past years and pledges to do more damage to something that employs many people in rural areas.

[capricorn]

Both the Tories and Liberals have promised to save billions of dollars by finding so-called “efficiencies.”

For his part, Hudak said a Tory government would find two cents in wasteful spending in each dollar not committed to health care and education “each and every year until we balance the budget” in 2017-18.

“Now I know that’s not going to be easy and I don’t look forward to it but it must done and can be done smart,” he said.

Hudak has pledged to start with reviewing 630 different agencies, boards and commissions in Ontario that he says cost millions of dollars a year to sustain.

“We will go through each one of those agencies with a very simple test — if it works you keep it, if it’s broken then fix it, but if it can no longer justify its value to the families that pay the bills we (will) close it down and use the savings for health care and balancing the books,” he said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/provincialelection/article/1050316--hudak-pledges-to-balance-budget-by-2017-18?bn=1

Hudak makes a promise he probably won't keep. Hey, leading us down the garden path is what kept McGuinty in power. If fibbing worked for the McGuinty Liberals all those years why wouldn't it work for the PCs? C'mon Tim, let's hear more of those nose stretchers. Ontario voters are so gullible, they may just buy it.

[CPCFTW]

Latest Nanos poll shows the gap between Libs and Conservatives is now even closer! Libs just went up by almost 2% and Tories are hovering around the the 35% mark..

Liberals 31.9

PC 35.4

NDP 22.8

Green 4.1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_general_election,_2011#Opinion_polls

Lol are you comparing the results of two different pollsters to editorialize this BS?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_general_election,_2011#Opinion_polls

You can't compare the poll by Forum Research to the one by Nanos Research. They ask different questions and use different methodologies. According to the latest Nanos polls, libs lost 5.7% and PCs lost 6.7%, while NDP gained 6.6% and the undecideds went from 16.9 to 8.8%.

http://www.nanosresearch.com/library/polls/POLONT-Ballot-201109.pdf

Sounds to me like the undecideds are overwhelmingly choosing to vote NDP and the libs and PCs have failed to capture many additional votes.

Leave the obvious bias aside please.

Edited September 7, 2011 by CPCFTW

[William Ashley]

Highminded pukes like you are the problem, the GTA pumps its drinking water out of its own toilet, not the ORM,

The Oak Ridges moraine feeds a lot of rivers in the GTA.

I've been in this business for the past 20 years,

What business is that?

I also own a significant chunk of protected land and drink the water from it, grow and eat food from it, use firewood from it heat my home in part and probably better understand self sustaining living than you might ever get the chance to. But you need to read the act, because its nothing more than an ingenious device to fool the likes of you, who are so egear to demonstrate your caring for the environment, not by spending your own money to own and protect it, but by telling other people what they should and shouldn't do.

What in the act don't you agree with?

Read it,

I have.

line up the maps with the aggregate resource map, go to the land titles office and look who's buying it up watch as Dufferin and Lafarge carve larger and larger holes in it then come back and try and give me a lecture.

Meanwhile there are little towns out there who cannot grow enough to sustain their grocery stores or gas stations, little family farms are being sold out every day to become the hobby horse farms for rich city people, get your little wikipedia working to see how sustainable and the great environmental benefit of your Volvo driving, cabernet sipping squire's horse farm.

I didn't make the act, and most acts do have room for development. However I highly doubt the Oak Ridges Moraine is your farm land, if so it is horrible land to farm on.

Then do the same and see what an aggregate mine looks like, and see all the diesel equipment that runs and leaks oil and fuel just a foot or so above the watertable that I drink from a then remind me how your interest in the moraine is greater than mine.

I've got the dirt under my finger nails pal, I know what good farmland is, I don't need some smug urban jerk to try and explain it to me because I'm a hick. I've not suggested turning it into a subdivision you city people can live in the mess you made for yourselves, but get your damn noses out my business, you can shove your TTC right up where the sun don't shine, I won't tell you how to do it. But unless you want to buy my land from me to turn into some park that helps to salve your under developed conscience then bugger off.

The McGuinty government is the closest to the development industry, who do you think pulled this off, this was under the guidance of former finance minsiter, a huge developer with family interests in a pile of construction, materials and developement companies. He and his ilk could care less about the ORM or your envirnomental religion.

Where do you live. Based upon my knowledge of the land makeup the the Moraine I doubt your statements as true.

Edited September 8, 2011 by William Ashley

[jacee]

Then do the same and see what an aggregate mine looks like, and see all the diesel equipment that runs and leaks oil and fuel just a foot or so above the watertable that I drink from a then remind me how your interest in the moraine is greater than mine.

It may interest you to know that after a quarry in Eastern Ontario

Was used in reconstructing a highway, it was found that the old pavement was dumped in the quarry, along with the usual oil cans, etc. It was in the groundwater. No gov people were interested in knowing about it.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Harris Decima

Liberal - 40%

PC - 29%

NDP - 24%

Hudak should have stayed away from Rob Ford. Rob Ford is toxic.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/marcus-gee/why-rob-ford-should-stay-mum-on-ontarios-election/article2157325/

Edited September 9, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist

[capricorn]

That certainly is encouraging news for the Liberals. I note though that the poll was taken just prior to the release of the Liberal platform. IMO, the next poll should be more telling. Let's not forget also that the campaign just kicked off. Whichever camp shows the most discipline will have the advantage and so far the Liberals seem to me to score higher in that regard.

[RuralWatcher]

Had the first Huron-Bruce debate tonight in Walkerton.

The decision to close the jail there was the main topic, as the Liberals cut the legs out from underneath a cabinet minister. Carol Mitchell did her best to try and spin a positive out of a catastrophic mistake in an election year. Though clearly she was rattled at times, while trying to answer a jails question, she lit into the NDP candidate for being anti-nuclear/Bruce Power.

The star was NDP candidate Grant Robertson, who is coming off a strong federal election result. He had the left-leaning room in the palm of his hand from the get-go. He was funny when it was appropriate and seemed to connect with the room better than the others. He was clear and concise and didn't just spew platform numbers like the other two. Clearly the winner.

This riding was seen as a slam-dunk for the PC Party. All they had to do was field a candidate with a pulse and they'd take it. I'm not sure they've managed to do that. The PC candidate, Lisa Thompson, is a virtual unknown in the riding and was clearly uncomfortable going outside the "changebook" talking points. On a question about child care, she froze and instead went into the "we'll lower your taxes" speech.

I think this riding would be going NDP if it was not for the party being so outspoken against nuclear power. It's an absolute killer for them in this riding, as the main employer is the Bruce Power nuclear site. Otherwise, they have a candidate that could win. No clue how this one is going to go. Logic says the Liberals are done here, as the jail closure and the Green Energy Act are absolutely despised here. But the PC's have really dropped the ball.

[Wild Bill]

This riding was seen as a slam-dunk for the PC Party. All they had to do was field a candidate with a pulse and they'd take it. I'm not sure they've managed to do that. The PC candidate, Lisa Thompson, is a virtual unknown in the riding and was clearly uncomfortable going outside the "changebook" talking points. On a question about child care, she froze and instead went into the "we'll lower your taxes" speech.

I think this riding would be going NDP if it was not for the party being so outspoken against nuclear power. It's an absolute killer for them in this riding, as the main employer is the Bruce Power nuclear site. Otherwise, they have a candidate that could win. No clue how this one is going to go. Logic says the Liberals are done here, as the jail closure and the Green Energy Act are absolutely despised here. But the PC's have really dropped the ball.

I don't think the PCs have to worry, despite those issues. Hating someone always trumps inexperience! THE PC candidate may be new and make a few mistakes but that's small potatoes by perspective. If people truly hate the NDP and the Liberals that much there's no way people will be upset enough with LIsa Thompsom to dump her and switch their vote.

[RuralWatcher]

I don't think the PCs have to worry, despite those issues. Hating someone always trumps inexperience! THE PC candidate may be new and make a few mistakes but that's small potatoes by perspective. If people truly hate the NDP and the Liberals that much there's no way people will be upset enough with LIsa Thompsom to dump her and switch their vote.

Thompson really only made one major error during the debate. At first, she promised a PC government would keep the Walkerton Jail open. She then had to revert back to Hudak's stance to only keep it open long enough to do an operational review. Another minor gaffe was a question relating to creating jobs for young people and she went on a ramble about lowering car insurance.

Of course, there is a huge number of folks in Huron-Bruce who will vote blue regardless of the candidate. I would say in the area of 20-25% of their vote is dyed-in-the-wool conservative voters. Probably will need less than 40% to take this riding, so that's a good start for them.

I wouldn't say they hate the NDP here. There's just that sticking point of their nuclear power stance. The NDP finished second in the riding in the federal election for the first time ever and they're running the same candidate again, who is very popular.

Honestly, I think if the NDP were less vocal about nuclear, they'd be taking this riding. The candidate himself is pro-nuclear, but obviously their party stance is otherwise.

[Boges]

I just heard a PC ad where they refer to this $10,000 tax credit as a subsidy to foreign workers.

Who the EFF is running Hudak's campaign?

Even as someone who sees Dalton as a loathsome person I know that this isn't a program meant to attract foreign workers.

But I suppose, since telling bold-face lies is something that's not below the dishonourable premier it's a case of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander."

[Argus]

I just heard a PC ad where they refer to this $10,000 tax credit as a subsidy to foreign workers.

Who the EFF is running Hudak's campaign?

Even as someone who sees Dalton as a loathsome person I know that this isn't a program meant to attract foreign workers.

But I suppose, since telling bold-face lies is something that's not below the dishonourable premier it's a case of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander."

I've been watching election campaigns for quite a few years, and I can't recall, during all that time, seeing a good Tory advertisement, or even hearing one on the radio. It's as if they seem completely incapable of understanding what is going to motivate people to vote for them and against the other guy. I hate McGuinty, and have for years, but whenever I see the Tories stupid 'tax man' commercial I roll my eyes and change the channel. It's just irritating and not the least bit convincing. I could design better ads easily.

[capricorn]

I just heard a PC ad where they refer to this $10,000 tax credit as a subsidy to foreign workers.

Who the EFF is running Hudak's campaign?

That "foreign workers" sound bite is the dumbest one I've heard so far in this campaign.

But I suppose, since telling bold-face lies is something that's not below the dishonourable premier it's a case of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander."

At the rate Ontarians are paying attention to the campaign, a good chunk of voters aren't even aware of the lies flying around.

[capricorn]

David Dodge, former Governor of the Bank of Canada weighs in.

A more intractable problem is the country’s waning manufacturing base in Ontario. The underpinnings of the province’s core industrial sector have been eroding for decades. Plants here can’t compete with the lower wage markets of the Southern U.S. states and emerging countries. Compounding matters, long-term investment in more efficient plants and equipment has been anemic. The deterioration was masked for years by the competitive advantage of a depressed loonie and overheated demand in the United States, particularly in the past decade.

Given the current strength of the Canadian currency and fragility of the U.S. economy, he says, “we in Ontario are in an extremely difficult position.”

The worst of it, he says, is that none of the province’s three political parties appear willing to admit that jobs and corporate tax revenues are at potentially at risk. More disconcerting are the absence of viable economic strategies and incentives to attract manufacturing investment.

His most pointed criticisms are directed at Ontario’s three political leaders who are campaigning for an October election. Each leader, he warns, is promoting “impossible” economic plans that unrealistically promise lower taxes and improved services for a province that he believes is facing a shrinking tax revenue base.

“Whoever wins will be seen to have lied to the public,” he said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/careers/careers-leadership/the-lunch/david-dodge-black-coffee-spiked-with-exasperation/article2160163/singlepage/#articlecontent

[mentalfloss]

Ontario's manufacturing sector went down as jobs in Alberta's resource collection sector went up. This will only get worse as we continue to suck the oil from the ground and begin to send to the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Ontario's manufacturing sector went down as jobs in Alberta's resource collection sector went up. This will only get worse as we continue to suck the oil from the ground and begin to send to the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease

So basically, Alberta is profiting at the expense of the rest of Canada.

And then hating on the rest of Canada.

[Argus]

So basically, Alberta is profiting at the expense of the rest of Canada.

And then hating on the rest of Canada.

No, Alberta is profiting from oil, just like Newfoundland, and Saskatchewan.

Ontario is not profiting for a variety of reasons including the surging dollar and perhaps the most incompetent provincial government in its history. Skyrocketing electricity prices aren't helping either, and those are directly attributable to McGuinty's incompetence.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Argus

[CPCFTW]

Ontario's manufacturing sector went down as jobs in Alberta's resource collection sector went up. This will only get worse as we continue to suck the oil from the ground and begin to send to the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease

"Another strategy for avoiding real exchange rate appreciation is to increase saving in the economy in order to reduce large capital inflows which are able to cause an appreciation of the real exchange rate. This can be done if the country runs a budget surplus. A country can encourage individuals and firms to save more by reducing income and profit taxes. By increasing saving, a country can reduce the need for loans to finance government deficits and foreign direct investment."

Thank god for TFSAa and corporate tax cuts.

[Topaz]

I'm sure there's many Ontarians that haven't make up their minds yet. The debates are coming up on the 27th of Sept. Hudak reminds me of another John Tory. Dalton has to be judge on what he HAS done good and bad and the reasons for them. The NDP, I've heard as far as for jobs, she is trying to get businesses to create them by giving them a 5% tax cut for new hirers. The polls will tell a better story after the debates.

[capricorn]

The polls will tell a better story after the debates.

Beware the polls, says Bricker.

We’ve all seen over the last few days a confusing cacophony of polls on the Ontario election. Depending on what poll you read, McGuinty's Liberals are on a roll, Hudak and the Tories are comfortably ahead, or the Grits and Tories are neck and neck. How can this be? It is because all polls are NOT created equally. And, in spite of what you may assume, pollsters are never held to account for their indiscretions, incompetence and mistakes (there is no “polling police”). Some marginal pollsters count on your ignorance and hunger to make the news to peddle an inferior product. Others are using your coverage to "prove" that their untried methodology is the way forward for market research in Canada. Instead of being their own biggest sceptics (which is what our training tells us to be), they've become hucksters selling methodological snake oil. Remember, the term "pollster" is derived from the term "huckster".

Journalists are no mere dupes in this process. We've also seen a disturbing trend of late in which questionable polls find their way into an outlet’s coverage because they appear to match an editorial line, or present a counter-intuitive perspective. After all, if a poll is wrong it’s easy to throw the pollster under the bus and walk away with clean hands.

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5336

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Beware the polls, says Bricker.

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5336

"An online survey by Abacus Data published by Sun Media on Tuesday gave Tim Hudak’s Progressive Conservatives a nine-point lead over Dalton McGuinty’s Liberals. "

I like the fact that they were criticizing a dubious right wing biased poll using strange methodology... sounds kind of like the right wings take on climate change.

Pollsters lash out at ‘methodological snake oil’ in Ontario election

Edited September 15, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist

[capricorn]

I like the fact that they were criticizing a dubious right wing biased poll using strange methodology... sounds kind of like the right wings take on climate change.

Speaking of strange methodology.

Progressive Conservative support in Toronto is plummeting, according to a new poll.

---

The Forum Research interactive voice-response phone survey of 1,046 Toronto residents was conducted Monday and is considered accurate to within 3 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1053245

Interactive voice response (IVR) is a technology that allows a computer to interact with humans through the use of voice and DTMF keypad inputs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_voice_response#Other_uses

I don't know about you but when I answer the phone and realize there's no human at the other end, I simply hang up.

I disregard opinion polls in this election.

Edited September 15, 2011 by capricorn