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Fahrenheit 9/11


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I have seen this film and I didn't find it as entertaining as 'Roger and Me'. F911 is a mish-mash with some very good sequences.

The first act concerning the Saudis and the Bushes ignores the fact that the Saudis have ties all through US politics. Prince Bandar has been in Washington a long, long time. When Mark Steyn and Michael Moore agree on something, you have to give it some thought.

The scene with Bush in the Florida school room on Sept. 11 is devastating and is worth the ticket price alone.

The final act about the war in Iraq covers material presented better in Hearts and Minds.

In between all this, there are numerous shots of Bush Jnr in various poses. People that truly dislike him will get to feel superior.

Will this film have an effect on the election? Yes it will. Along with several thousand other events between now and November.

IMV, Moore Has a good editor's eye for the newsworthy but he has no ability to put anything into a coherent whole.

Incidentally, if you wish someone in Canada would make this kind of stuff, Le Confort et l'Indifférence is a better movie.

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The Florida school room scene wasn't the only reason to see the movie. I was particularly appalled by the following:

-how the U.S. government allowed family members of Osama Bin Laden to leave the country right after 9-11, while the rest of America was stranded.

-how Congressmen did not read the Patriot Act before it was signed.

-how American soldiers themselves did not know why they were in Iraq, while conservatives ranted on about how American soldiers knew they were fighting a just cause (just like Vietnam)

-how the government preached to its people that the U.S. was setting up a democracy in Iraq while its soldiers infiltrated Iraqi homes, terrorizing innocent families, much like the British had done to Americans before the Revolutionary War. (sounds like Vietnam)

-how innocent civilians in Iraq were bombed in places that had no militiamen. (much like Vietnam)

-did I mention the Florida schoolroom scene where Bush, aware of the plane bombings, sat reading My Pet Goat while people were burning to death inside the WTC and the Pentagon?

If this documentary can get a "leader" like Bush out of office, then I'm very glad it was revealed to the American public.

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First off, I would like to wake you all up from your Moores fantasy dreams. The guy is the biggest liar to hit the film industry in all its history, it is hideous that he won the award for best documentary since his movie was NOT a documentary. Unless of course you call blatant lies and false information part of a documentary.

It is nothing more than a good laugh, if you allow yourself to be drawn in and convinced of the truth of what that man tells you without researching it for yourself then you are merely a pawn of propoganda and proving your own ignorance

PS and for the love of all thats good in this world stop equating Iraq with Vietnam, that is a common Liberal rant and it is so very pathetic. If you want I will go into more detail, but that might scare you (as the truth hurts) so choose carefully

Also I found an excellent book on Bush Jr and this Iraqi crisis... it is called 'MisUnderEstimated - The President Battles Terrorism, John Kerry, and the Bush Haters'

It reveals the ugly side of the media with cold hard facts, gives a painstakingly accurate timeline, COMPLETE quotes not parts of sentances like the Liberal media enjoys using, and shows just how twisted some people in this world are and how Saddam used the Liberal media to cover his tracks... for example the CNN admitting AFTER Iraq was conquered that it had been covering up Saddam's 'bad' side and only airing the stories that made him look half human all to keep their coveted perch in Baghdad... its a VERY good read, I highly recommend you grab it, excellent source information as well =)

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First off, I would like to wake you all up from your Moores fantasy dreams. The guy is the biggest liar to hit the film industry in all its history, it is hideous that he won the award for best documentary since his movie was NOT a documentary. Unless of course you call blatant lies and false information part of a documentary.

Yea yea, we've heard that before about all liberals. My, I'm so convinced now. Michael Moore is the biggest lair ever, all those video clips must have been made up.

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Actually yes, ever heard of splicing? Video editing software can easily manipulate what you see, and with a skillful hand you can be very easily decieved.

Check out some of these sources:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

http://marccooper.typepad.com/marccooper/2...and_moore_.html

The guy is a fsking moron, and anyone who blindly follows the man is also a fsking moron =p

PS Most Liberals know that Moore is a sack of lies aimed to tell the story the way he wants it told

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Finally got to see it. What surprised me the most was how moderate the presentation was. After hearing the howling from Republicans, I was expecting something outrageous. Sure, Moore's humour and ascerbic commentary is unabashedly partisan, but the material covered was far from controversial.

Practically everything Moore presented in the film I already knew about. Most of it would be common knowledge to anyone who used credible international sources for their news, or read any books on the subject. When I say credible news, I mean outlets like CBC, BBC, Reuters, and to a lesser degree PBS.

In fact, there was only one real surprise in the whole movie for me, and that was how aggressively the Marines recruited inner city youth.

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First off, I would like to wake you all up from your Moores fantasy dreams. The guy is the biggest liar to hit the film industry in all its history, it is hideous that he won the award for best documentary since his movie was NOT a documentary. Unless of course you call blatant lies and false information part of a documentary.

Documentary: A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.

Lesee, nothing in their about being unbiased or impartial. Indeed, Moore is the last person who'd claim to be either. He's a provoceteur who wears his bias on his sleeve. Nothing underhanded about it.

If anything Moore is a counterbalance to the right-wing blowhards that have come to dominate the so-called "liberal" media establishment: the Coulters O'reillys, Liombaughs, Millers, Hannitys et al who have been spreading their own lies and vicious ad hominems for years unchecked.

It seems to me the thing that drives right-wingers absolutely ape about Moore is the fact he propagandizes, strtches the truth and is shameless in his methods. In other words, when right-wingers look at Moore, they see their own distorted reflection. And it's a sight most simply cannot bear.

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Black Dog: by your own words you decry yourself.

Firstly, Moores did not make a documentary, a documentary is factual, what Moore made was a Fiction.

Source: http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Secondly, over 80% of the media is staunchly Left-leaning... so you can stop with the 'oppressive' right wing crap

Bryan:

Your 'credible' news outlets have been historically proven to favor controversy over truth, and are unashamadly anti-right wing

maple syrup:

You sound like a preacher, wake up and stop basing your decisions on the 'allknowing' CBC

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Moore's Public Service

And for all its flaws, "Fahrenheit 9/11" performs an essential service. It would be a better movie if it didn't promote a few unproven conspiracy theories, but those theories aren't the reason why millions of people who aren't die-hard Bush-haters are flocking to see it. These people see the film to learn true stories they should have heard elsewhere, but didn't. Mr. Moore may not be considered respectable, but his film is a hit because the respectable media haven't been doing their job.

For example, audiences are shocked by the now-famous seven minutes, when George Bush knew the nation was under attack but continued reading "My Pet Goat" with a group of children. Nobody had told them that the tales of Mr. Bush's decisiveness and bravery on that day were pure fiction.

Or consider the Bush family's ties to the Saudis. The film suggests that Mr. Bush and his good friend Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the ambassador known to the family as Bandar Bush, have tried to cover up the extent of Saudi involvement in terrorism. This may or may not be true. But what shocks people, I think, is the fact that nobody told them about this side of Mr. Bush's life.

Mr. Bush's carefully constructed persona is that of an all-American regular guy — not like his suspiciously cosmopolitan opponent, with his patrician air. The news media have cheerfully gone along with the pretense. How many stories have you seen contrasting John Kerry's upper-crusty vacation on Nantucket with Mr. Bush's down-home time at the ranch?

But the reality, revealed by Mr. Moore, is that Mr. Bush has always lived in a bubble of privilege. And his family, far from consisting of regular folks with deep roots in the heartland, is deeply enmeshed, financially and personally, with foreign elites — with the Saudis in particular.

Mr. Moore's greatest strength is a real empathy with working-class Americans that most journalists lack. Having stripped away Mr. Bush's common-man mask, he uses his film to make the case, in a way statistics never could, that Mr. Bush's policies favor a narrow elite at the expense of less fortunate Americans — sometimes, indeed, at the cost of their lives.

Hawk.....you fit the right winger mold to a T. Never any substance to your comments. Smarten up, eh. ;)

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Montgomery; He probably subscribes to the National Post; the most right winged garbage I have ever read. Why do we no longer get straight news; now it is all biased (Can West) full of editorials and opinions. Keep their opinions; I want the facts; all the facts; not just what promotes their viewpoints; be it right or left. I am quite capable of forming my own opinion; but we need facts not opinions. Sometimes it is not what they tell us; it is what they don't tell us.

I agree Montogomery; those are all good cridible sources that you listed.

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"I love President Bush and what he has done for this country... he knows what it means to be a proud American" -Michael Moore

Amazing what you can do when you cut and paste snippets of film and quotes. I just cut and pasted that comment from Moores' own website. All factual comments that he wrote...

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The BBC, CBC, Reuters and PBS are some of the most respected news outlets in the world and their integrity is without question?!

Are you serious or making a joke? 

Don't you people remember? Anything that displays an shred of liberalism is automatically fake and not credible. I remember someone on this forum once saying the WashingtonPost was garbage.

Anyways, I would like to hear one conservative on this forum instead of, skipping around the issue, attempting to prove that Fahrenheit 911 was "spliced," all that ridiculous nonsense, to address some of the issues in the movie. Like our President sitting dumbly for 7-9 minutes while knowing that the WTC and the Pentagon were bombed. Like all those shockingly close relations that the Bush family have with Saudis? How the Army targets lower-class young people to fight in Iraq while the rich kids sit at home? Or can you not adress those points? Or are you traumatized because your beloved Bush screwed up? Even better.

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Or are you traumatized because your beloved Bush screwed up?

Better wake up Mr F. Do you think for a moment that Democrats don't think that terrorism is a serious threat to America? Do you actually think that they that different? Do you actually think that they think Bush lied and all when they themselves jumped right on the WMD bandwagon? (Kennedy, Kerry, Clinton and Gore all supported the notion that Iraq had WMD and was a threat to America.) Kerry even voted for the invasion.

I think you actually believe that there are two, totally separate entities in the USA. One that is right, and the other that is left and when the administration changes, the country goes from black to white or whatever. They are merely opposite sides to fill in a political formula. Would Kerry get differing advice from the same Generals and CIA chiefs? Would he have pulled out the old war plan that was made in the Clinton Administration for invading Iraq and update it? Do you think for a minute that it is purely coincidence that Kerry says that we should go to the UN or might that be better for his campaign than saying that Bush did it right?

Of course the Democrats have to take the opposite side.

Let's just pretend for a moment that Gore was in charge and he did the exact same thing as Bush. Would Bush and his out of power administration be saying that Gore did the right and proper thing and that all his policies are correct? Not for a second. Myself, I would say that they did the right thing and you, would accuse me of being a Left Wing Redneck. If the Democrats did this would you have supported it or opposed it?

Bush has a deep character flaw that the Left does not capitalize on. It has nothing to do with his ability to govern or make judgement calls based on the advice of some of the smartest people on the planet. The same stature of people that Kerry would surround himself with. I have no love for that man but see the sense of the whole action and even if it didn't make sense, 27 million people are free today because of him. That is wonderful.

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No. To his skipping out on military service. It is one thing to do a Cassius Clay and face up to it all, another to be a weekend warrior and an AWOL one at that.. Myself, as a soldier who, as a young man was at the front lines of his country's forces and remained so until retirement, I know that had I been in America I would have been so as well. It is not a matter of courage, as nobody knows who is a coward and who is not in advance. Even heros become cowards and vice versa so there is no way of telling what, where and who.

There is, the element of pur-oseful conieving a shirker feels if he is old before his time. A young man should feel immortal, be proud to serve his country and take affront to the fact that others are doing his duty while he is not. But it is between him and God, or his consience, as well as to every American youth who carried the load in his place. Meaningless now in reality, but a factor that would preclude me from ever calling him friend.

Before the left calls this a victory, remember that Viet Nam was just, if not more contreversial than Iraq. It is not the duty of the young to question the call of the government but to serve. Their privilige as a citizen is to question, as is all of us.

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Country in a state of chaos? I take it that you refer to the division of 50/50 in America. It's called democracy and the two partys carry their ongoing vendetta on through thick or thin using whatever ammo they can. Not too separate in intent, they are separate always on issues as to agree means the other party is right and they are at the best followers.

Hower, you seem to feel that the Republicans under Bush did something that is something that they alone would ever have considered. That I think Mr Farrus is our bone of contention. I see an act that had to be made sooner or later, preferably sooner, unpleasent as it may be while the damage done by Islamic nutbars was minimal. You, on the other hand, feel that they could have been dealt with by appeasement and ignoring the problem. Leaving everything the way it was and throwing more money at them like the Saudi government does.

I don't put my life in their hands and think that the best way to deal with bastards like OBL and Co is removal of their means of operation ie: finances, hopeless populations that give plenty of recruits, anhialation of their leaders and pressure on governments that aid them for fear of their influence like Saudi.

Other than that, I feel strongly that I like Iraq to be free. You feel that it being captive is better than Bush being right. I don't look at it that way, I relish the free Iraq and you ignore that blessing. That alone is redemption for Bush. You would rather have 27 million in captivity to make your point? I doubt your scincerity as we are talking about 27 million lives that previously were all possible vicitims and are now probable free people. Free to tell you that you are an idiot, free to tell Bush the same or even badmouth Saddam without fear of his secret police that comprised 10% of the population. At least you can admit that Bush did right there, intentionally or unintentionally. If you don't, then I doubt your scincerity in any discussion with freedom or human rights as the core point.

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No. To his skipping out on military service.
I was going to say his lack of courage.

I was surprised that in his movie, Moore did not show what Bush Jr did that fateful morning. After the Fla school, he flew in Air Force One to Louisiana and then to North Dakota.

As a Canadian, I was appalled when I learned that. I thought he should have told his handlers to get him back to the White House immediately. He didn't have to say, "You want to kill Americans? Start with me!" He could have said that America is bigger than a President or some buildings.

On 24 June 1968, Trudeau went out on to the balcony of Montreal's city hall and stood up to the mob. I don't think he cared a wit about cameras or journalists.

Churchill flew constantly during the war. I'm sure he thought about the danger but then thought about the point of it all.

Even Kennedy, I'm sure, decided that democracy means no bubble top.

Thatcher withstood a bomb attack and then got on with business. Reagan took a bullet, and then ran again for re-election.

George Bush Jr flew to North Dakota.

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August, you are out to lunch with this post. Bush doesn't decide what time he wakes up in the morning, it is handled by his handlers. Would you be able to take agenda with the world falling to pieces around you? Was the White House safe on Sept 11? Was Times Square? What was?

I think that North Dakota was a good choice. If anything happened to Bush the President of the US would be gone and the leadership as well. The figurehead had to be protected and if any serviceman or woman or staff member allowed him to comit himself to dnager they should be fired.

You want somebody to go to the White House and shout 'Kill Me?' hire Whoopie Goldberg. This is reality, not theatrics. Even Churchill didn't parchute behind enemy lines to show he was brave. He stayed in private, his travellings secret to avoid assasination, not because he was a coward.

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[quote:) " Bush doesn't decide what time he wakes up in the morning, it is handled by his handlers"

You are probably right. I did always think he was just a puppet. He does as he is told.

That is why, some have asked; "How does Bush talk, when Cheney is drinking water?"

If Bush were killed; the USA does not fall apart with no leadership. Presidents (JFK) have been killed before; while in office; sad but the world keeps on and the USA keeps working: this scenario is well prepared for.

He had to go practise his "serious look" in the mirror before addressing the public.

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