CANADIEN Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Awww...come on. No one respects fence-sitters. How about you cybercoma....which option would you choose? It's not about fencesitting. It's about being, as YOU said serious. "What would you bet if you were forced to?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 When someone makes themselves into a public leader, the standard, with all due respect, is higher than lack of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Why? That is what I was thinking? I want to live in a Canada where we are all treated equally. Isn't part of "leadership" leading by example, not saying "do as I say not as I do"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 I agree. But innuendos and assumptions are not evidence. That's what I have seen so far. In Canada though, a proof is a proof. What is a proof. A proof is something that proves something and that is a good proof. Jean Chretien, 2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Although I disagree with a lot of the things Chretien did that quote always irritates me. It's misleading. The reporter was the stupid one for asking the question, "What is a proof?" I would have, and you being a lawyer probably would have, given the same sarcastic response. Of course, we're not leading our respective countries, so it's different. Not much different though. THe reporter asked a dumb question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 I would bet if we had a trail that the jury would rule that there was no crime committed and that is good enough for me. Do you mean the Laurentian Trail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Although I disagree with a lot of the things Chretien did that quote always irritates me. It's misleading. The reporter was the stupid one for asking the question, "What is a proof?" I would have, and you being a lawyer probably would have, given the same sarcastic response. Of course, we're not leading our respective countries, so it's different. Not much different though. THe reporter asked a dumb question. Actually, on July 28, 2003 I was going to close off an oral argument (representing the Defendant who did not in this case have the burden of proof by saying: "A great leader of a great democracy recently said 'a proof is a proof'. And in the terms of this great leader, the Plaintiff has, your Honor, proven nothing". I couldn't keep a straight face, or make the appropriate accent, while saying that so I simply said "the Plaintiff has not, respectfully, met his burden today". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpio Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 It seems that the lastest "smear" on Layton hasn't affected his poll numbers. He actually got a bump and is only 6 points behind Harper on the latest Nanos released tonight. I love the backfire. Go Jack go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 It seems that the lastest "smear" on Layton hasn't affected his poll numbers. He actually got a bump and is only 6 points behind Harper on the latest Nanos released tonight. I love the backfire. Go Jack go. NDP is 8.2 points behind the CPC on Nanos last day of polling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) del Edited May 2, 2011 by CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Isn't part of "leadership" leading by example, not saying "do as I say not as I do"? Sooo.....don't get massages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amorris1123 Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) All throughout the federal leader's debate Mr. Harper kept referring to his opponents arguments as bickering , but it is this sort of petty squabbling and Conservative backstabbing that stops real parliamentary process from happening. Let's review the evidence here. Mr. Layton was found in a massage parlor naked - FACT. The masseuse was seen disposing of wet kleenex - FACT. I was in physiotherapy for months after a snowboarding injury and every single time I went for massages I got naked, wrapped myself in a towel, and got a massage. If massage oil was used, it got wiped up, with - wait for it - kleenex. Just because the conservative party can't actually come up with anything bad to say about Jack Layton they've stooped to attempting to make him look like a womanizer who goes to brothels, a fact which is clearly not true, and even if it were, he is still happily married 15 years later so I'd say its fairly safe to assume that either his wife put him in line or there wasn't a problem to begin with. Edited May 2, 2011 by amorris1123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Or more importantly, no one outside of hyper-partisans really care if he got his rub&tug. Obviously, Olivia was okay with it (to all outside indications). If this is what happened, whatever. If he was supposed to be "pro women's issues" guy and paid for the geisha treatment, then that may not have been smart, but people should let it go. Any damage that this "issue" could do has been done. It's election day. If John's actions had the potential to sway voters, consider them swayed as far as possible. Mission is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome Rob Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Universally blaming the Tory's for the spilling of this story is far and away worse than declaring Jack guilty without due process or complete facts. At least there is a shred of evidence standing against Jack. And I don't say that to defend the Tory's, the Liberals certainly do not deserve a free pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Sooo.....don't get massages? I never have gotten a massage except from my wife. I could see, if at a first class hotel, with a clean, well-regarded facilities, getting one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Universally blaming the Tory's for the spilling of this story is far and away worse than declaring Jack guilty without due process or complete facts. It's not surprising. Finger pointers have a lot of targets as to who spilled the beans to the media. On Saturday, Kay, a National Post columnist, tweeted that he was approached about the story on Oct. 12, 2008, two days before the last federal election, by someone he described as a “Liberal fixer.”The individual, Kay says, gave him an electronic copy of a Liberal Party lawyer’s access to information request into the Layton incident. But Kay says the police source behind the story wouldn’t speak to him, and he couldn’t obtain the officer’s notebook himself, so he let the story drop. “I mention this only because the leak itself has become the story,” Kay tweeted, adding that Michael Ignatieff was not the Liberal leader when he was approached about the story. “I have no idea who leaked the Layton/massage story this time around,” he said. A spokesman for the Liberal campaign denied that the party was involved in Friday’s leak. “The Liberal Party had nothing to do with the story published by the Sun,” said Marc Roy. The Tories have also denied involvement. Also on Saturday, Kinsella, a former Liberal strategist and columnist for various publications including Sun Media, blogged that he was approached about the story two years ago, but that he chose not to pursue it because he believed readers would assume that anyone who reported on it was being manipulated by a political party bent on hurting Layton. http://www.thestar.com/news/article/983801--questions-emerge-over-source-of-layton-leak?bn=1 It shouldn't be too difficult for the TO police investigation to get to the bottom of it quickly. The Sun’s story relied on photocopies from the anonymous Asian crime unit officer’s notebook. The OPP announced Saturday that they would launch a criminal investigation into the leak, after Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair asked the force to probe a possible breach of trust regarding the disclosure. A Toronto police spokesman explained that an officer’s notebooks belong to the police department, not the individual.A former police officer who served in the Asian crime unit in the mid-1990s estimates there were only 25 officers working in the unit during that period. How long does it take to interrogate 25 police officers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) Universally blaming the Tory's for the spilling of this story is far and away worse than declaring Jack guilty without due process or complete facts. Why? You reap what you sow, after all. Edited May 2, 2011 by Molly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 I wonder why the Sun was so sloppy with this story when they were able to catch the manipulation a few days earlier with the photo-shopped picture of Ignatieff's head on the US soldier. Did they decide to get back to their bias or were they threatened by Harper to do so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 I wonder why the Sun was so sloppy with this story when they were able to catch the manipulation a few days earlier with the photo-shopped picture of Ignatieff's head on the US soldier. Did they decide to get back to their bias or were they threatened by Harper to do so? I suspect they're just an aligned third party. I can't imagine Harper ordering something like this. Harper's smart enough to know that such a smear attack might very well have no effect, or potentially even the opposite effect. But the guys at Sun honestly look like a bunch of ex-Tory staffers who had in their previous jobs spent their days and nights saying rude things about NDPers and Liberals, and then decided to start up a media company and basically kept doing the same thing. It stinks of that idiotic navel-gazing paranoid attitude that political hacks fall into all too easily. It's these kinds of guys that put together campaign bits like the Liberals be pro-child porn. They have a certain kind of low-brow wit, but ultimately their minds are brewing pots of partisan fog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 NDP is 8.2 points behind the CPC on Nanos last day of polling. A lot of us have had a problem for some time with Nanos, which always seems to be the outlier. Certainly none of the other polls indicated what Nanos did, and I have to presume there is something awry with their methodology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Universally blaming the Tory's for the spilling of this story is far and away worse than declaring Jack guilty without due process or complete facts.... I'll accept that when Harper apologizes to Helena Guergis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 I'll accept that when Harper apologizes to Helena Guergis. Let's not get carried away. Guergis was the author of a lot of her own misfortunes. By all accounts, the rest of the Tory caucus loathed her. She was an arrogant prima dona with a coke-snorting crooked husband. One way or the other, her Tory affiliation was doomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 I’ll echo that and ask what about his statements with regards to the Bank of Canada & interest rates? Or regulating the price of fuel? (How well did that work for PEI?) Or the chose of some of his candidates, namely in Quebec? Are these not all fair questions to ask of Mr. Layton and the NDP? Perfectly fair. Far more reasonable than "what did he know fifteen years ago about a situation divorced from his actions as political leader?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Universally blaming the Tory's for the spilling of this story is far and away worse than declaring Jack guilty without due process or complete facts. At least there is a shred of evidence standing against Jack. And I don't say that to defend the Tory's, the Liberals certainly do not deserve a free pass. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that this was not orchestrated by a political party. But if it were, I'd suspect the Liberals before the Conservatives on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 My opinion, for what it's worth, is that this was not orchestrated by a political party. But if it were, I'd suspect the Liberals before the Conservatives on this one. I don't think it was either. Actual political strategists, as opposed to ex-Tory frat boys like the Sun crowd, would know that such a "revelation" is a dangerous thing. It's a grenade that can go off in your hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 I understand teh police report says that during the raid, he told the masseuse "Don't Stop Until The Job Is Done!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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