Why was Randy White missing?

[maplesyrup]

Another gaffe by the Conservatives?

It must be as Randy White's comments about what the Conservatives plan to do after the election were on the front page of the Vancouver Sun, Saturday, Jun 27.

When will ever end? - as Jack Layton said - Harper better go to Home Depot and get some some more duct tape to put over the mouths of the Cons candidates and write on the duct tape - Do not open until Jun 29.

Do you think we can get through the day today, the last day of the campaign, without another gaffe?

No hidden agenda, my ass.

[Hjalmar]

No hidden agenda, my ass

What kind of a hidden agenda are you talking about? Can you give us some examples? There was nothing wrong with what Randy White said and furthermore he made that comment 2 weeks before the election was called.. that's almost 2 months ago!!!

You're running out of ammunition MS.

If I had an NDP sign on my front lawn I would be too embarassed to show my face around the neighborhood. Do you have an NDP sign on your front lawn MS?

These socialists are getting desperate.

[Argus]

Another gaffe by the Conservatives?

It must be as Randy White's comments about what the Conservatives plan to do after the election were on  the front page of the Vancouver Sun, Saturday, Jun 27.

When will ever end? - as Jack Layton said - Harper better go to Home Depot and get some some more duct tape to put over the mouths of the Cons candidates and write on the duct tape - Do not open until Jun 29.

Maybe Jack can lend some of his. He obviously has his sheep-like caucus under control.

You know what? I don't care what White says, or Cheryl Gallant, or Scott Brison. They're not my MP. And you know what else? They'll all get re-elected. What you don't understand is that they speak for their constituents. Their constituents aren't outraged with their comments. They agree with them! Your view seems to be that anything which outrages the Toronto media should be banned.

Why shouldn't seperate areas be allowed to have seperate views, and MPs who represent those views?

[takeanumber]

The cons have the look of a deer caught in the headlights.

It's the Conservative version of the groundhog.

If a Conservative-Alliance MP lifts his head out of his hole and doesn't see Harper cleaning up a mess, he'll open his mouth and that means six more days of cleaning.

[idealisttotheend]

Takeanumber is right, lol. It does seem that every time the Alliance-Conservatives get it together and get some control over the agenda somebody opens their mouth wide and it is six days of more cleaning. Maybe he'll start nailing boards over their holes.

[takeanumber]

That's the problem when you agree with them though.

You don't want to censor them, because you really agree, but at the same time, letting the electorate know what you'd really do (in the abscense of any party policy) is a huge nono.

Martin is the only guy who has put forward even a notion of what kind of Canada he wants.

The basis of Harper's arguement is: Vote for us, because the Liberals are corrupt.

When pressed about his own vision for the country, he snarls, "The real issue are the liberals."

So: you have to question, who is being negative in this campaign?

[Argus]

So: you have to question, who is being negative in this campaign?

Not if you have any intelligence or judgement you don't. All you have to do is watch the Liberals' sleazy, dishonest commercials and listen to blustery, screaming Paul Martin wrap himself in the flag of nobility and scream abuse at the Conservatives.

[caesar]

I almost hope that the Conservatives do become our next temporary government. They will then eventually have to reveal their true colours and go down in flames. A party does not give out hints of things to come then quickly back off when things get people riled.

[Michael Hardner]

What kind of a hidden agenda are you talking about? Can you give us some examples?

The CPC advocates free votes in its policy, but its members are less than forthcoming on their views on social issues.

So the agenda is to allow free votes on issues, but the voter who supports the CPC might have to guess as to his/her CPC candidate's position, as it's ... uh ... "not in public view".

[willy]

I have been to many candidates meetings and the Conservatives have been clear.

Some are for same sex marriage (as a Conservative I am), Vancouver Center, some against Richmond. Go ask your candidate. Votes also means three readings in the house and plenty of debate. More than any other party the Conservatives also believe in representing their constituents views.

Randy was at a candidates meeting in the Fraser valley yesterday. Many candidates were not at the Harper rally but close to 1000 supporters were there. I was one of them. Again the party priorities and policy were clear.

First priority, accountability.

Ethics commissionaire that reports to the house.

Larger budget and authority for AG.

Appoint elected senators.

They are very specific on the platform. If you don't understand a point just ask. It’s all good stuff, and the reforming parts have less to do with left/right and more to do with decentralizing the power out of the PMO. Can we not all agree that is a good thing?

[takeanumber]

Not if you have any intelligence or judgement you don't. All you have to do is watch the Liberals' sleazy, dishonest commercials and listen to blustery, screaming Paul Martin wrap himself in the flag of nobility and scream abuse at the Conservatives.

Cons are just as bad.

Moreover..they want a blank check from Canadians. They havn't had a policy convention yet, so I'm sure their true colours will show shortly.

[redwhite]

Cons are just as bad.

That is simply dishonest, like virtually all of the Liberal campaign.

[takeanumber]

QUOTE (takeanumber @ Jun 27 2004, 09:20 PM)

Cons are just as bad.

That is simply dishonest, like virtually all of the Liberal campaign.

No. It's true.

The only thing more disgusting than Martin's behaviour, and Layton's disrespect has been Harper's flip flop on his position on Iraq.

Canadians should also consider the wonderful things that Foreign Minister Stockwell Day will have in store for us.

Well, wait, there is one thing more disgusting.

To proclaim that you're more democratic than other parties, then to gag your own MP's from speaking out on social issues.

[Michael Hardner]

They are very specific on the platform. If you don't understand a point just ask. It’s all good stuff, and the reforming parts have less to do with left/right and more to do with decentralizing the power out of the PMO. Can we not all agree that is a good thing?

Just ask ? Isn't this an election ? Shouldn't they be telling us ?

Anyway, I did ask my local CPC candidate what his views were, through the email on his website but I got no reply.

If the agenda isn't hidden, the information structure for the CPC to explain how the local candidates will vote is just not there. So maybe it's a murky agenda.

[willy]

I have worked in a campaign office with the older generation working the email, they may not have had a good system in place to respond to your question or lost it.

My candidate was at a minimum of 10 debates in the last 4 weeks. I am sure the phone number of the CPC office was also available to you.

They have said. Have you listened?

[Michael Hardner]

have worked in a campaign office with the older generation working the email, they may not have had a good system in place to respond to your question or lost it.

My candidate was at a minimum of 10 debates in the last 4 weeks. I am sure the phone number of the CPC office was also available to you.

They have said. Have you listened?

How much is the average voter expected to do ?

I emailed the guy, I went to his website. Nothing. If I have to look for answers that I still can't find, am I allowed to say the answer is hidden ?

[willy]

Would you vote for him anyway?

No

Go bother a candidate you are likely to ask an earnest question to and believe. Tell the truth; even if you have a clear answer you would not have believed it because you don't want to believe it.

You may not like the Conservative position on many issues but they are clear.

I know the NDP platform and I don't like it.

I know the Fiberal platform and they aren't likely to use it.

Nothing hidden except the Fiberal scare tactics for lack of a new platform.

What was this big question anyway? Be specific and I will answer, after 5 weeks of platform, I have heard and read most of them.

[Reverend Blair]

I tried asking a few questions too...the Liberals and Conservatives never answered either through their local hopeful or through the party sites. They never even acknowledged my questions.

Harper sneaking out the back door to avoid protestors here kind of summed up his campaign though. He doesn't like being asked questions, won't answer them when he is asked, and attempts to denigrate anybody with the temerity to demand an answer from him. He's a dangerous little man with a secret agenda and an elitist attitude.

[Michael Hardner]

Would you vote for him anyway?

No

Maybe not, but he still should explain his position.

Go bother a candidate you are likely to ask an earnest question to and believe. Tell the truth; even if you have a clear answer you would not have believed it because you don't want to believe it.

I only wanted an answer. I didn't care as much what it was.

You may not like the Conservative position on many issues but they are clear.

No. That's the whole point There is no clarity. Only vague ideas that there will be more democracy and free votes without explanations as to what specific changes this will entail.

I know the NDP platform and I don't like it.

I know the Fiberal platform and they aren't likely to use it.

Nothing hidden except the Fiberal scare tactics for lack of a new platform.

The Liberals have been quite open about their scare tactics.

What was this big question anyway? Be specific and I will answer, after 5 weeks of platform, I have heard and read most of them.

I asked the local candidate his position on a variety of issues that might come up in free vote.

[Argus]

What kind of a hidden agenda are you talking about? Can you give us some examples?

The CPC advocates free votes in its policy, but its members are less than forthcoming on their views on social issues.

Which members have been less than forthcoming? Have you asked any what their views are on abortion or gay marriage and gotten an inadequate answer?

The Liberals have been succesful, despite Paul Martin's stated aim of holding more free votes, in scaring a lot of people into thinking free votes are somehow dangerous, which is pretty wierd, when you think about it. But then, a lot of people are frightened easily.

[Argus]

Not if you have any intelligence or judgement you don't. All you have to do is watch the Liberals' sleazy, dishonest commercials and listen to blustery, screaming Paul Martin wrap himself in the flag of nobility and scream abuse at the Conservatives.

Perhaps you didn't notice the qualifier "if you have any intelligence or judgement".

[Michael Hardner]

Which members have been less than forthcoming? Have you asked any what their views are on abortion or gay marriage and gotten an inadequate answer?

My local candidate and websites for other local candidates were my source.

The Liberals have been succesful, despite Paul Martin's stated aim of holding more free votes, in scaring a lot of people into thinking free votes are somehow dangerous, which is pretty wierd, when you think about it. But then, a lot of people are frightened easily.

It's not that Free Votes are dangerous, it's that a CPC PM can enact them to satisfy his MPs even when those MPs do not represent the views of average Canadians.

Free Votes, Referrenda, Proportional Representation are all the holy grails of democracy, if you believe their proponents. But oddly enough, they best serve the leaders of the parties that propose them.

[The Terrible Sweal]

No hidden agenda, my ass

What kind of a hidden agenda are you talking about? Can you give us some examples? There was nothing wrong with what Randy White said and furthermore he made that comment 2 weeks before the election was called.. that's almost 2 months ago!!!

Hidden Agenda:

-gut federal powers

-re-open 'social conservative' issues through referenda

-undermine the supreme court

-privatize health care

-relax environmental enforcement

-lower taxes on the wealthy by shrinking public institutions and social infrastructure

I can't see how 2 months is likely to have evolved Mr. White's views very much. If you agree with his goals, then certainly there would be 'nothing wrong' with what he said. On the other hand, people who sensibly disagree with such nonsense would disagree.

[willy]

Depends who's spin you look at:

- gut federal powers

(respect provincial jurisdiction)

- re-open 'social conservative' issues through referenda

(have an open debate on gay marriage and nothing else)

- undermine the supreme court

(Judges to go before committees and looked at by the house before appointment)

- relax environmental enforcement

(junk Kyoto in favor of clear emissions guidelines that don't currently exist after 10years of Liberal rule. - - Check and see we only have 4 federal air emission standards for industry)

- lower taxes on the wealthy by shrinking public institutions and social infrastructure

(Lower taxes for middle and income bracket and reduce air security tax)

I have met Randy and heard him speak, he is passionate about drug enforcement and victims rights. Those are his priorities.

[The Terrible Sweal]

I don't agree that its just a matter of spin. Even if we accept your characterization of some of these items, you have to concede that they have been more or less deliberately hidden in this campaign.

But the items themselves should also be examined for what they are, for example:

To say 'respect provincial jurisdiction' is doublespeak. Provincial jurisdiction is not under threat, so the implication that it needs protection is a coded message for something else.

To 'have an open debate on gay marriage and nothing else' is impossible. The debate you want to have requires an unacceptable concession in another debate: whether we have a liberal democratic society, or something else. To concede that we can have 'equal rights except for some' is not acceptable.

I was actually refering to other ways of undermining the court, but having judges to go before committees and looked at by the house before appointment raises the question of what it is they are being scrutinized for, exactly. I see nothing that such scrutiny would do to improve the bench, based on the quality of the candidates we tend to get.