Good Canadian Politics

[August1991]

Let me translate a viewpoint:

I believe in free debate and democracy. By nature, you English Canadians want to suspect. By nature, we French Canadians want to trust.

Can we make a country?

We make the effort to understand your Language but you, as typical males, don't understand us.

We want to ensure that what we do is good. Can you please help us to do this, in all languages?

[playfullfellow]

Can we make a country?

Well, we do have a country right now as it may be. This country of course has its problems and our politicians are not helping very much. I think a lot more can be done outside the political arena but the decision has to be mutual. There is a lot more talk of seperation coming from the Quebec side of the debate. How are we, the ROC supposed to take this kind of talk? This is not indicative of people wanting to set up working relationships on building a stronger country. There are also too many differences in how the official languages are governed in each region. Laws have been purposely set up in Quebec to enhance french while severely limiting visible english language. There are no such laws in Alberta or BC I know for sure. Heck we even have signs in Japanese and Mandarin much more prominant than english signs. Does anyone really care, no only the truly ignorant.

We make the effort to understand your Language but you, as typical males, don't understand us.

This is basically contrived as a sexist remark that we see way too often in todays society. Male=ignorant buffoon. Sorry, that one does not cut it here at all. I grew up being taught to respect all sectors of society and respect others point of view. I may not always agree with them but I do respect their right to these views.

I do not know whether it is media bias or not but generally the impression we get from Quebec is that we are looked down upon as redneck morons who repsect no one and are uneducated lower class simpletons, always trying to quell the asperations of Quebec seperatists. It seems to me that a lot of people equate anti-seperatism equals anti-french.

I believe in free debate and democracy. By nature, you English Canadians want to suspect. By nature, we French Canadians want to trust.

I do not think it is a matter of trust. It goes back to the addages, "once bitten, twice shy" or "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". A lot of the laws seem to be very Ontario and Quebec friendly. There have also been several scandals in the last little while which pretty much lined the pockets of Liberal friendly companies and people. What about the gun control laws, the majority of people in the west did not want or really need. Official bi-lingualism can be viewed as french safe in the ROC but does not really do anything to protect english in Quebec. If there is to be a consensous as to where this country needs to head as a whole country, it has to be mutually benefitial to both Quebec and the ROC. I think we need to stop labeling people as english, french, etc. Let's start labeling everyone as Canadian first.

[caesar]

If Quebec, that gets all the gravy from the federal government would quit whining and threatening to separate and TRY to be Canadian; perhaps we would be more tolerant. The French language is not one of the top languages spoken as a first language here in BC but we must have everything manufactured with French language on equal to the English. Meanwhile, Quebec doesn't allow English signs on stores. Makes us regret we did not force you to learn English when the English conquered the French forces in Canada. Our forefathers wanted to allow you to keep your own language and culture. Instead of respect for our respect for your culture; now all we hear is whining.

[Bro]

Can we make a country?

You can't even run a province.

I f it wasn't for the taxpayers dollars from the REST OF CANADA,what would you have?

Your primary purpose is to ensure everything is in french,including the ROC,even when it is not warranted,all the while ,in your own province,have a gestapo style police,known as the language police,to squash any use of the English language.

Then you have the nerve to talk about democracy,and that we should trust you.

A trial separation ,without the purse strings from the

REST OF CANADA,might teach you some respect for yor fellow English Canadians.

[Digby]

A friend of Mine a few years ago put in for a goverment Job a few years ago , it was for a trafic controller in the bay of fundy ,the job was located in st John .New Brunswick .

He got called infor an Interveiw , Or should i say an Apology .

He was Told that he was the Highest Qualified person to have ever applied for this job , he had been a captain working the bay , he had large tickets , university degrees ect .

The Guy Handing out the Job Told Him I can not beleave this but i can't hire you even though you are the most highly qualified to have ever applied , you can't speak french , so to tell you the truth i got to hire an idiot from quebec with no qualifacations im truely sorry .

I been fishing the Bay of fundy all my life and ive never heard ships who could only speak french or even useing french .

So thats the country we live in , if it comes down to an idiot that can speak french ,or a highly qulified english only person competeing for goverment jobs , the french will win over the brains !

[Digby]

One year on veterans day they had some new brunswick veterans on a new brunswick radio station . The old guys they was Interveiwing was about half pissed at Quebec , they said new brunswick had 1/10 the population of Quebec but had 10 times the soldiers in the second world war .

I guess they are into taking and not giving maybe .

[Hawk]

LoL I can't believe I agree with everyone thus far that has posted (except August1991) xD That is a first, I like it lol

Well said all, and I would like to add my own two cents:

I was talking to a girl from Montreal on another chat, and it started off with me introducing myself as someone from Alberta, and then I challenged her with some questions about Quebec... at first she defended herself, saying they were very tolerant of English, everyone talked English, it was everywhere, French was used as much as English, etc etc.. then as soon as it moved to politics and who we would vote for she said she was going to vote for the bloc, when I asked her WHY she was voting for a seperatist party she suddenly exploded and said 'BECAUSE YOU ENGLISH CANADIANS ARE TRYING TO CRUSH OUR CULTURE AND WE WONT LET YOU STUPID PIGS'

o.o I was like... '....'

lol, after that things went downhill and I ended up not talking to her... additionally I know a couple English-speaking Canadians from Quebec who are very cool, and nice to hang out with (I work with one) and he can't stand French-Canadians (although he says the women are hot lol)

Personally, I say let them seperate, but no support. They want sovereignty, give it to them, but dont baby them like they have been demanding us to do for over a century. Its time Quebec grew up and took care of itself.

If they want to call for equality, get rid of special status, get rid of the anti-English mentality and convince us that you aren't going to turn on us as soon as you get the chance... if I do recall in WW2 French-Canadians let us English-speaking Canadians do the fighting and refused to join the army because 'it was an English war'.. RIGHT, France being invaded anyone? Sounds rather French to me, not to mention even back then Quebec didn't see themselves as part of Canada whereas the rest of us were more than ready to join in our nations defence. English-speaking Canadians are the lifeblood of this nation, English is our heritage, our culture, our tradition. Your attempt to destroy it borders on treason not to mention that you have become that which you denounce us of being =p

[DAC]

This began with August 1991's post. The response so far has been a symptom of the problem. I'd like to try to start something more positive.

Let me translate a viewpoint:

I believe in free debate and democracy. By nature, you English Canadians want to suspect. By nature, we French Canadians want to trust.

Can we make a country?

We make the effort to understand your Language but you, as typical males, don't understand us.

We want to ensure that what we do is good. Can you please help us to do this, in all languages?

That's a very interesting viewpoint, though I think it has an obvious bias.

Attitude is the critical ingredient in making a country, as it is in making a marriage. If your attitude is that of an accountant - it's a good deal if I get paid back what I pay out - it goes nowhere. If your attitude is concern for the other person, your desire is to build the other person (or province) as you have the chance, then we find it easier to climb together higher than Everest. If mountain climbers pull one another down as they try to get themselves higher, they don't make it. If they each try to help the other up, they can go a long way up. Our need, if we are to succeed as a country, is to start rooting for, hoping for, & trying to help and build, the other parts of the country. If all of us do that, nobody in the world will come close to us.

Way back in the year 1, when I was in the Navy, I travelled a lot back and forth across this land. I grew up in Saskatchewan, where there was very little chance to use French, and I'm not much of a linguist. (It's almost impossible for a poor linguist to learn a language when he has limited opportunity to use it. French Canadians need to accept that and be less critical of Anglophones who can't speak French.) But when I was in Quebec, if I stopped for a meal and some gas, I tried to use what limited French I knew. Back then, I always got a warm response and willing help when I got lost. They didn't mind speaking English with me, when I tried to speak their native tongue as best I could, and got stuck.

But too many people, like a lot of the responses posted here imply, said in effect, "What's wrong with you idiots that you don't speak English?" Surprise! People didn't want to give them the time of day. Why should they bother to speak English with some slob who comes to their part of the country, a place where French is the common first tongue, and sneers at their language?

Unfortunately, that conflict (& there has been fault on both sides) has developed into settled distrust and suspicion. Quebecois are less willing today to help someone struggling to communicate. Naturally enough, tourists who had troubles go home with the sense that the people of Quebec are a surly, unfriendly bunch. So things get worse. Quebecois feel that they aren't respected, aren't even wanted, so naturally some of them start saying, "In that case, let us out". Anglos feel that the Quebecois are disloyal (all this talk of separation), and a pain in the butt with their insistence on French, so some of them say, "Let them separate; who wants them". And the two conflicting sentiments build.

Are there real problems? Of course. There are real problems between Conservative Alberta and NDP Saskatchewan. There are real problems between me and my wife. But if we stop trying to tear each other down, stop sneering at one another, and instead get serious about trying build and encourage one another, the problems can be solved. I hope and pray they are. For the record, I want Quebec to continue as a part of Canada. I think separation would diminish both parts in far more than size. We would lose a richness that we gain through our very differences.

The first step is to start caring for one another. Doing that means we try to can the hate talk. That means people from Quebec have to police their own, and people from the West have to police their own ...

Quebec would like to have more local control, as opposed to federal control. So would Alberta! I think there are other provinces that would appreciate that as well. So let's think seriously about how we can do that without tearing the country apart.

Quebec is concerned about preserving its language and culture. A lot of the rest of Canada is concerned about having French language and culture imposed on them where there is no significant "market". So let's work at finding solutions which don't run to selfish extremes (Kill English in Quebec vs Kill the bilingualism program).

A country is built by working together. Unless we are prepared to care about more than our own benefits (i.e. our provincial benefits) Canada will not last as a country. I think its demise would be a tragedy.

[Bro]

I'm sorry,but I don't think Mr. Duceppe would have much time for all that mush,it is not his style,or the style of most seperatists.Their agenda is quite clear,but they need

Canada to pay for it,that is their only stumbling BLOC,otherwise

they'd be gone a long time ago.

[Michael Hardner]

Thanks for the post, DAC.

I think we'll be seeing another, hopefully more positive, approach to redefining federal-provincial relationships very soon, whether the Libs or CPCs win.

[The Terrible Sweal]

By nature, you English Canadians want to suspect. By nature, we French Canadians want to trust.

Is there something other than subjective opinion behind that assertion? If so, what?

[August1991]

For the initial post, I transcribed almost word-for-word something a friend said to me.

Is there something other than subjective opinion behind that assertion? If so, what?

It is wholly subjective.

My interpretation? Too often, there is too much suspicion on the side of English-speaking Canada. The position of French-speaking Canada forces them to trust the better nature of the majority.

[The Terrible Sweal]

August:

That's an interesting perspective. But I put it too you ... imputing suspicion to others, is itself a bit suspicious.

[Hawk]

DAC, some of us wouldn't be so against French-Canadians if they stopped demanding more from us and didn't get the special status they have. You claim that we should all worry about bettering each other, when was the last time you heard Quebec rallying to defend Western Canada? You want to fix the problem, start it where the problem is coming from, the problem is an unbalanced political scale over in the East in addition to extremely anti-English attitudes (we aren't trying to seperate from the French either, we stick around despite the crap that gets thrown at us)

[The Terrible Sweal]

... when was the last time you heard Quebec rallying to defend Western Canada?

Likewise Alberta rushing to defend Nova Scotia?

But more importantly, 'defend' eachother from what? Your post seems to presume a great adversary somewhere which doesn't exist.

[Hawk]

Alberta is a rich province, everyone in Canada benefits by our existence. We economically defend every province in this country ESPECIALLY Quebec =p

Also defence is a broad and general term, it doesn't mean a physical and militaristic enemy. It could be anything, including something like BSE. I didn't see Quebec worrying about Western ranchers who are going out of business and losing farms and ranches that have been in their families for decades. As I said, they have the upper hand, they have the special status that is supposed to be equality (that is ironic), its them who have to take the first step and I suggest the first step being stop electing a seperatist government and get rid of this ridiculous special status