Liberals already giving up in Alberta

[ToadBrother]

It's not always a matter of what the party wants though.

I mean, the NDP does run candidates in my parents' riding but they never run very strong candidates or make a really concerted effort to win that riding.

xpost to punked

Every party has finite resources, even the Tories. Not every riding is going to get equal treatment. As I said before, swing ridings get the most; including the star candidates, the guaranteed ridings get second most because that's the reward the candidates that can bring it home get for sticking around, and the ridings where you know throwing money and resources into a bottomless pit get the least. National parties will run a candidate in every riding (unless, as has happened on occasion the candidate is thrown out or resigns after the cut off), but no national party works equally hard in every riding.

My riding is pretty much guaranteed Tory, so it's not going to get the same resources that some of the ridings in Vancouver and Toronto where their internal polling says they may have a chance to break into.

[ironstone]

Other than a little NDP outpost,the province is a Tory wasteland...

The money to spend on offices that will produce nothing in the next election is better spent in places where the Liberals are competative...

How does the old Liberal saying go?"F**k the West,we'll take the rest!" Or was it "Screw" the West?No matter I guess.

[Jack Weber]

How does the old Liberal saying go?"F**k the West,we'll take the rest!" Or was it "Screw" the West?No matter I guess.

Oh no...The NEP!!!!

[Hydraboss]

Oh no...The NEP!!!!

Come now Jack, we both know you can't even spell NEP.

I actually like the fact that the Liberals have totally given up on Alberta. They are right in that they will never win a seat here, but I'm sure that I'm one of the people hoping that this kind of news spreads a province west of us and maybe a couple east of here. It would be a money pit for them to spend close to half their election budget ($10-$12 or so???) on a province where they are utterly rejected. We both know the Cons are going to win the election, but it would do my heart good to see them shut out completely west of Ontario.

Just for kicks.

[August1991]

I doubt the Tories put huge efforts into ridings they know they can't touch. That's pretty standard fare. You put the most resources where you think you can get the biggest pay off...

All true TB but the federal Liberals are now an Anglo urban party based primarily in Toronto, and west Montreal. (For traditional reasons, they have a few seats in the Maritimes, in French Canada outside Quebec and then Newfoundland.)

At present, federal Liberal ridings are fiefdoms dependent on the incumbent - often because of the incumbent's personal help in getting relatives visas.

The federal Liberal Party is Canadian in name only. It is no longer the bridge party of Laurier, King, St-Laurent or Pearson. Ignatieff is a sad, pathetic echo of its greatness.

----

The federal Liberals have destroyed the idea of federalism in French Quebec. In short, when the federal Liberals present viable candidates in Alberta, then I'll send them money because it may mean that they understand the nature of this country.

Edited March 27, 2011 by August1991

[ToadBrother]

The federal Liberals have destroyed the idea of federalism in French Quebec. In short, when the federal Liberals present viable candidates in Alberta, then I'll send them money because it may mean that they understand the nature of this country.

I think that's putting a lot of blame on the Liberals, and forgetting that the rise of the Bloc was in no small part due Mulroney's failures as well. It wasn't a Liberal destruction, it was a Federalist collapse in Quebec.

[William Ashley]

Do you really think a Liberal has a snowball's chance in Hell of winning a seat in Alberta??

I'm surprised Layton is trying so hard there,although,the NDP actually has a seat in Edmonton...

A muslim left leaning Canidate Neesh won mayor of Calgary, anything is possible.

Naheed Nenshi, Mayor of Calgary

This doesn't make me skeptical Alberta could have so and so, Liberal Member for x, Alberta, as out of the Question. Harper was known as an incredibly neglectful Canidate, and representative for Calgary. While the liberals are forced to appoint members in Alberta the conseravtives arn't letting people run nationally and are staging and parachuting in 'their national campaigns unelected persons', more than one local riding association is upset about not being able to field their own ridings winning canidates.

What if some of those members actually ran to be liberals? YOU might see a dramatic shift if that were to occur.

Edited March 27, 2011 by William Ashley

[Alta4ever]

A muslim left leaning Canidate Neesh won mayor of Calgary, anything is possible.

Naheed Nenshi, Mayor of Calgary

This doesn't make me skeptical Alberta could have so and so, Liberal Member for x, Alberta, as out of the Question. Harper was known as an incredibly neglectful Canidate, and representative for Calgary. While the liberals are forced to appoint members in Alberta the conseravtives arn't letting people run nationally and are staging and parachuting in 'their national campaigns unelected persons', more than one local riding association is upset about not being able to field their own ridings winning canidates.

What if some of those members actually ran to be liberals? YOU might see a dramatic shift if that were to occur.

Who have the Conservatives Parachuted into Alberta William?

[August1991]

I think that's putting a lot of blame on the Liberals, and forgetting that the rise of the Bloc was in no small part due Mulroney's failures as well. It wasn't a Liberal destruction, it was a Federalist collapse in Quebec.

TB, WTF? The demise of the Liberals in Alberta or western Canada in general predates the Bloc.

And do you blame Mulroney also for the Liberal collapse to Montreal's anglo west island?

A muslim left leaning Canidate Neesh won mayor of Calgary, anything is possible.

"Anything is possible?"

I'm not from from Alberta, I don't live there, but even I know that Albertans are not ignorant, neanderthal fools.

Edited March 27, 2011 by August1991

[William Ashley]

Who have the Conservatives Parachuted into Alberta William?

Calgary West..

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbc.ca%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fcalgary%2Fstory%2F2010%2F02%2F05%2Fcalgary-rob-anders-riding-challenge.html%3Fref%3Drss&ei=4kKPTfGEOoTUgQeC15W0DQ&usg=AFQjCNHeY-FGS3CowY_Y5Mfgz5-VjmJeqQ&sig2=KWF_PGsJV0GGpwPVH90N6w

AND all the other ridings who tried to hold elections in their ridings but were disallowed by their national controllers

The problem isn't local to Alberta, but you also have people like Helena Geurgis who is being forced out of her seat, or rigged elections in places like Day's riding in BC, where no one who wasn't on the board was allowed to run, because enough notice wasn't given (and they had to submit applications to the national office, not the local riding office)

There are many other examples of National totally ignoring local ridings completely removing any "voting or democratic process" in the ridings. It is all top down in the CPC. NOT grassroots

And the people on top are criminals breaking elections laws, and parliamentary laws.

CPC = CRIMINAL PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVES

Edited March 27, 2011 by William Ashley

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Calgary West..

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbc.ca%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fcalgary%2Fstory%2F2010%2F02%2F05%2Fcalgary-rob-anders-riding-challenge.html%3Fref%3Drss&ei=4kKPTfGEOoTUgQeC15W0DQ&usg=AFQjCNHeY-FGS3CowY_Y5Mfgz5-VjmJeqQ&sig2=KWF_PGsJV0GGpwPVH90N6w

AND all the other ridings who tried to hold elections in their ridings but were disallowed by their national controllers

The problem isn't local to Alberta, but you also have people like Helena Geurgis who is being forced out of her seat, or rigged elections in places like Day's riding in BC, where no one who wasn't on the board was allowed to run, because enough notice wasn't given (and they had to submit applications to the national office, not the local riding office)

There are many other examples of National totally ignoring local ridings completely removing any "voting or democratic process" in the ridings. It is all top down in the CPC. NOT grassroots

And the people on top are criminals breaking elections laws, and parliamentary laws.

CPC = CRIMINAL PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVES

Rather strong allegations dude, are you serious?

[RNG]

Calgary West..

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbc.ca%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fcalgary%2Fstory%2F2010%2F02%2F05%2Fcalgary-rob-anders-riding-challenge.html%3Fref%3Drss&ei=4kKPTfGEOoTUgQeC15W0DQ&usg=AFQjCNHeY-FGS3CowY_Y5Mfgz5-VjmJeqQ&sig2=KWF_PGsJV0GGpwPVH90N6w

AND all the other ridings who tried to hold elections in their ridings but were disallowed by their national controllers

The problem isn't local to Alberta, but you also have people like Helena Geurgis who is being forced out of her seat, or rigged elections in places like Day's riding in BC, where no one who wasn't on the board was allowed to run, because enough notice wasn't given (and they had to submit applications to the national office, not the local riding office)

There are many other examples of National totally ignoring local ridings completely removing any "voting or democratic process" in the ridings. It is all top down in the CPC. NOT grassroots

And the people on top are criminals breaking elections laws, and parliamentary laws.

CPC = CRIMINAL PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVES

That was my riding and I actually joined the CPC so I could vote against him in the riding nomination battle. In fact it was the local Conservatives that delayed sending memberships to Ottawa so that myself and may more like me couldn't vote. Dirty politics but I don't think you can hang this one on Harper or the National Organization.

How about the Liberals forcing certain candidates in ridings to try to get better gender and ethnic balance. Same bloody thing.

As was said before, this election more than most in my experience is a matter of voting for the least bad candidate/party.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

That was my riding and I actually joined the CPC so I could vote against him in the riding nomination battle. In fact it was the local Conservatives that delayed sending memberships to Ottawa so that myself and may more like me couldn't vote. Dirty politics but I don't think you can hang this one on Harper or the National Organization.

How about the Liberals forcing certain candidates in ridings to try to get better gender and ethnic balance. Same bloody thing.

As was said before, this election more than most in my experience is a matter of voting for the least bad candidate/party.

Even so it speaks volumes about the internal machinations of the party itself. Bad business in my books.

[William Ashley]

Rather strong allegations dude, are you serious?

No, I'm just making it up for entertainment value (detect the sarcasm)

[kimmy]

Yes, the point is that the Albertans are so ideologically bound to the conservative right that, other than a few ridings, they wouldn't even consider voting for any other party, unless that party were even more to the right (like Wild Rose).

I don't see how this reflects badly on the Liberals. It more reflects badly on Albertans.

This is wrong. As recently as a few years ago Edmonton had two Liberal MPs. There's an NDP MP there now. Both Edmonton and Calgary have left-leaning mayors. People point to the dominance of the provincial Progressive Conservatives, but the provincial PCs in Alberta are about as "conservative" as the BC Liberals are "liberal". Alberta is not an ideological monolith. There are many urban seats that would be up for grabs fpr politically centrist candidates. It's not an issue of ideologiy, it's about branding.

Maybe the Liberals should look at themselves in wondering why they're not that big of a hit in Alberta. A quick recap of the men they've offered as leaders:

Jean Chretien:

-was openly belligerent to Alberta and Albertans.

-treated the province as "fly-over territory". The only time he was in Alberta was when his flights to Whistler crossed Alberta airspace. Michael Ignatieff has visited Alberta more times as Opposition Leader than Chretien did in the whole time he was PM.

-was obsessed with the Quebec "national unity crisis" politics that just makes Albertans physically ill.

-had ministers like Stephane Dion and Diane Marleau pick little mini-fights with their Albertan counterparts and with Ralph Klein just because it looked good for their supporters in other regions.

-the Kyoto implementation plan, where western energy producers were going to pick up the tab while central Canadian manufacturing jobs were promised exemption.

-basically decided that being a tough-guy in respect to Alberta was a vote-winner in other parts of the country.

Paul Martin:

-said all the right things, like "I won't consider my time as Prime Minister a success unless I'm able to address western alienation."

-up until election time, that is, when he went around cautioning Maritime voters that Stephen Harper was a Calgarian and his advisors were Calgarians, and stood on a stage with Buzz Hargrove applauding while Hargrove accused the Conservatives of having "Albertan values, not Canadian values".

Stephane Dion:

-was a born loser, obviously, and every region of Canada felt that way.

-was especially unelectable in Alberta because of his history with the Quebec "national unity crisis" politics that make Albertans physically ill.

-his biggest accomplishment in life was stealing Preston Manning's ideas and calling it "the Clarity Act".

-was one of Chretien's little minions.

-"de Green Shit" was a platform that seemed almost deliberately designed to repel Liberal votes in Alberta.

Michael Ignatieff, so far, has avoided any blunders in dealing with Alberta. He's visited. He's made pro-energy and pro-business comments that seem to have been generally well received. He's not linked with Chretien or "national unity crisis" politics or anything like that. So far so good.

Still, I suspect many Albertans are just waiting for the moment when the Liberals decide yet again that throwing Alberta under the bus is a politically expedient move in other parts of the country. If they can go a whole election without disrespecting Albertans, it'll be a positive step that they can build on in the future.

-k

[Grimzby]

Breaking news:Liberals already giving up in Alberta as Harper becomes President of Alberta!

[Smallc]

-treated the province as "fly-over territory". The only time he was in Alberta was when his flights to Whistler crossed Alberta airspace. Michael Ignatieff has visited Alberta more times as Opposition Leader than Chretien did in the whole time he was PM.

Like when he held the G8 in Kananaskis.

[blueblood]

This is wrong. As recently as a few years ago Edmonton had two Liberal MPs. There's an NDP MP there now. Both Edmonton and Calgary have left-leaning mayors. People point to the dominance of the provincial Progressive Conservatives, but the provincial PCs in Alberta are about as "conservative" as the BC Liberals are "liberal". Alberta is not an ideological monolith. There are many urban seats that would be up for grabs fpr politically centrist candidates. It's not an issue of ideologiy, it's about branding.

Maybe the Liberals should look at themselves in wondering why they're not that big of a hit in Alberta. A quick recap of the men they've offered as leaders:

Jean Chretien:

-was openly belligerent to Alberta and Albertans.

-treated the province as "fly-over territory". The only time he was in Alberta was when his flights to Whistler crossed Alberta airspace. Michael Ignatieff has visited Alberta more times as Opposition Leader than Chretien did in the whole time he was PM.

-was obsessed with the Quebec "national unity crisis" politics that just makes Albertans physically ill.

-had ministers like Stephane Dion and Diane Marleau pick little mini-fights with their Albertan counterparts and with Ralph Klein just because it looked good for their supporters in other regions.

-the Kyoto implementation plan, where western energy producers were going to pick up the tab while central Canadian manufacturing jobs were promised exemption.

-basically decided that being a tough-guy in respect to Alberta was a vote-winner in other parts of the country.

Paul Martin:

-said all the right things, like "I won't consider my time as Prime Minister a success unless I'm able to address western alienation."

-up until election time, that is, when he went around cautioning Maritime voters that Stephen Harper was a Calgarian and his advisors were Calgarians, and stood on a stage with Buzz Hargrove applauding while Hargrove accused the Conservatives of having "Albertan values, not Canadian values".

Stephane Dion:

-was a born loser, obviously, and every region of Canada felt that way.

-was especially unelectable in Alberta because of his history with the Quebec "national unity crisis" politics that make Albertans physically ill.

-his biggest accomplishment in life was stealing Preston Manning's ideas and calling it "the Clarity Act".

-was one of Chretien's little minions.

-"de Green Shit" was a platform that seemed almost deliberately designed to repel Liberal votes in Alberta.

Michael Ignatieff, so far, has avoided any blunders in dealing with Alberta. He's visited. He's made pro-energy and pro-business comments that seem to have been generally well received. He's not linked with Chretien or "national unity crisis" politics or anything like that. So far so good.

Still, I suspect many Albertans are just waiting for the moment when the Liberals decide yet again that throwing Alberta under the bus is a politically expedient move in other parts of the country. If they can go a whole election without disrespecting Albertans, it'll be a positive step that they can build on in the future.

-k

Cripes you forgot the grand poohbah of liberal leaders. Pierre trudeau, how many gems did he have that tarnished the liberal brand?

[kimmy]

Like when he held the G8 in Kananaskis.

Yeah, plus I think there was an intergovernmental conference that he attended, and I think he was at a big National Research Council funding announcement. So that's about once per term.

Almost twice per term if you include times he tourstopped in Alberta for Landslide Annie campaign rallies!

Cripes you forgot the grand poohbah of liberal leaders. Pierre trudeau, how many gems did he have that tarnished the liberal brand?

I only mentioned recent onces because it hurts Jack's feelings if anybody mentions Trudeau.

-k

[Alta4ever]

Calgary West..

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbc.ca%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fcalgary%2Fstory%2F2010%2F02%2F05%2Fcalgary-rob-anders-riding-challenge.html%3Fref%3Drss&ei=4kKPTfGEOoTUgQeC15W0DQ&usg=AFQjCNHeY-FGS3CowY_Y5Mfgz5-VjmJeqQ&sig2=KWF_PGsJV0GGpwPVH90N6w

AND all the other ridings who tried to hold elections in their ridings but were disallowed by their national controllers

The problem isn't local to Alberta, but you also have people like Helena Geurgis who is being forced out of her seat, or rigged elections in places like Day's riding in BC, where no one who wasn't on the board was allowed to run, because enough notice wasn't given (and they had to submit applications to the national office, not the local riding office)

There are many other examples of National totally ignoring local ridings completely removing any "voting or democratic process" in the ridings. It is all top down in the CPC. NOT grassroots

And the people on top are criminals breaking elections laws, and parliamentary laws.

CPC = CRIMINAL PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVES

Better Check you facts William you are wrong as usual Rob Andres won the last nomination race in that riding he was not parachuted in. He has won every race and nomination race since 1997. William you are a bloody fool.

http://www.calgaryjournalonline.ca/news/34-news/189-rob-anders-takes-on-calgary-west-and-unsurprisingly-wins-again

Don't you ever tire of eating crow. Do you homework!

[William Ashley]

Better Check you facts William you are wrong as usual Rob Andres won the last nomination race in that riding he was not parachuted in.

Don't you ever tire of eating crow. Do you homework!

Don't patronize, if you followed the discussion you'd realize that the local riding wasn't allowed to have an election to get rid of him. Rob Anders is the Mubarrak of Calgary West - it isn't difficult to hold your seat when no one is allowed to run against you... that is exactly what the National Office did to Calgary West's Conservative Riding Association.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2010/02/11/calgary-anders-constituency-resignations.html

Calgary West..

http://www.google.ca...JV0GGpwPVH90N6w

AND all the other ridings who tried to hold elections in their ridings but were disallowed by their national controllers

The problem isn't local to Alberta, but you also have people like Helena Geurgis who is being forced out of her seat, or rigged elections in places like Day's riding in BC, where no one who wasn't on the board was allowed to run, because enough notice wasn't given (and they had to submit applications to the national office, not the local riding office)

There are many other examples of National totally ignoring local ridings completely removing any "voting or democratic process" in the ridings. It is all top down in the CPC. NOT grassroots

And the people on top are criminals breaking elections laws, and parliamentary laws.

CPC = CRIMINAL PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVES

Edited March 27, 2011 by William Ashley

[Brandon]

Do you really think a Liberal has a snowball's chance in Hell of winning a seat in Alberta??

I'm surprised Layton is trying so hard there,although,the NDP actually has a seat in Edmonton...

Haha, the Liberals really don't have a chance at all. In quite a few of the Alberta ridings the Liberals got thrid place being beaten out by the NDPs for second.

[Wild Bill]

Haha, the Liberals really don't have a chance at all. In quite a few of the Alberta ridings the Liberals got thrid place being beaten out by the NDPs for second.

In most Alberta ridings the Liberals couldn't beat a dog for the seat! Even a dead dog!

[Brandon]

In most Alberta ridings the Liberals couldn't beat a dog for the seat! Even a dead dog!

Haha. It is true, any time I'm talking about politics with someone here they're first thing they say is they will not vote liberal. If there is any chance that people will vote left of centre they will vote NDP over Liberal.

[tweetah]

Any astute person with even limited knowledge of the Canadian political landscape should be able to understand that election financial resources are finite and there is no use wasting money in solid neo-con ridings.