bush_cheney2004 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 BC, of course, people are concerned about what is happening in the Middle-East and those people are fighting for their freedoms as we have here. There's nothing wrong in TALKING about the high prices and how the speculators in the stock market are causing all this. I think you are ignoring the direct impact of instability in a major oil producing part of the world. Would you prefer that the protesters just shut up and go back to work so you can have lower gas prices? Perhaps 4-5 dollars is nothing to you but to some people it is and I also heard that the price could go to 20.00 a gal, would THAT make you bitch? I think you should go join the military and go help those people. No, it would not make me bitch....Diet Coke costs far more at Burger King. Maybe some people will have to cut back on all that pot smoking! I've already served my time in the military...have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfezziwig Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Why complain about it, we all know its going to be much more in the future? Here's one solution to those who constantly whine about higher gas prises, buy some stock in the oil sector, I did recently and am making money each time the price of oil goes up, bring on $150/barrel oil, I'll make a fortune then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 LOL! Back in the 70's, gas prices went up so fast that the pump meters had to be indexed. I guess the rich people fixed that problem for good with new pump displays and firmware. People whining about prices today don't remember or were not alive when there were gas lines wrapped around the block, odd even days, no gas days, and siphon thieves because of supply shortages. Good times! I remember it well, difference being that people actually had MONEY to buy gas with though... Back before the corporate takeover of Governments... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) I like the part about how Libya provides like 2 % of the worlds oil production,but speculators make the price go sky high... Then ,the Saudi's come out yesterday and say they can make up the difference.... If they could make it up when "potentially" 2% might go off line,where was it the rest of the time??? Oil?? A collusively rigged market??? Naw..... Edited February 25, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I think you are ignoring the direct impact of instability in a major oil producing part of the world. Would you prefer that the protesters just shut up and go back to work so you can have lower gas prices? No prob for me... I can hardly wait for recession part two though... Then we'll hear some REAL whining... High TIME things got "shook up" top down instead of bottom up... No, it would not make me bitch....Diet Coke costs far more at Burger King. Maybe some people will have to cut back on all that pot smoking! I've already served my time in the military...have you? That's FUNNY my friend looking more and more like YOU may be underwater again, eh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maple_leafs182 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 China and US demand for oil is rising, the supply is falling and the US dollar that is used to purchase oil is being devalued, this is why prices are going up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 No surprise there... Wouldn't it be nice if Canada had a DOMESTIC gas price like every other oil exporting country in the world? Ooops, Canada can't do that while Mexico can (Mexican gas is $2.70 a gallon) because Moroney gave the US the say over what Canada can/has to charge for it's own gas... Item 11 in NAFTA... Mexico has a nationalized oil industry. We would have to do the same meaning we would have to compensate the shareholders of every oil company operating in Canada for their Canadian investments. Why should private enterprise make the investment and take the risk so they can sell you a product for less than it is worth? And even if you did nationalize the industry, why should the country sell its non renewable natural resources for less than they are worth just so its citizens can waste the stuff and fall farther behind countries that are learning to adapt to the reality of the rest of the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 China and US demand for oil is rising, the supply is falling and the US dollar that is used to purchase oil is being devalued, this is why prices are going up. No. The oil companies won't let this crisis go to waste. It's been done before, prices get jacked because of some conflict in the world. Take a look at prices of oil over the last 15 years, and then take a look at major conflicts around the world during that time frame. There is a correlation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 No. The oil companies won't let this crisis go to waste. It's been done before, prices get jacked because of some conflict in the world. Take a look at prices of oil over the last 15 years, and then take a look at major conflicts around the world during that time frame. There is a correlation. China is now the worlds largest car market and India is growing fast. What do you think all those new cars run on, air? People never seem to learn. When prices spike, they all want more fuel efficient vehicles. As soon as prices go back down, they go back to SUV,s and pickups driving demand up again. We have been through enough of these cycles that you would think they have figured it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 China and US demand for oil is rising, the supply is falling and the US dollar that is used to purchase oil is being devalued, this is why prices are going up. Only partly true, the main reason being oil speculators bumping the price up for their own financial benefit... "A crisis" simply gives oil speculators the means to do it without public revolt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 More on the real reason behind high oil prices Part II As detailed in an earlier article, a conservative calculation is that at least 60% of today’s $128 per barrel price of crude oil comes from unregulated futures speculation by hedge funds, banks and financial groups using the London ICE Futures and New York NYMEX futures exchanges and uncontrolled inter-bank or Over-The-Counter trading to avoid scrutiny. US margin rules of the government’s Commodity Futures Trading Commission allow speculators to buy a crude oil futures contract on the Nymex, by having to pay only 6% of the value of the contract. At today's price of $128 per barrel, that means a futures trader only has to put up about $8 for every barrel. He borrows the other $120. This extreme “leverage” of 16 to 1 helps drive prices to wildly unrealistic levels and offset bank losses in sub-prime and other disasters at the expense of the overall population. The hoax of Peak Oil—namely the argument that the oil production has hit the point where more than half all reserves have been used and the world is on the downslope of oil at cheap price and abundant quantity—has enabled this costly fraud to continue since the invasion of Iraq in 2003 with the help of key banks, oil traders and big oil majors. Washington is trying to shift blame, as always, to Arab OPEC producers. The problem is not a lack of crude oil supply. In fact the world is in over-supply now. Yet the price climbs relentlessly higher. Why? The answer lies in what are clearly deliberate US government policies that permit the unbridled oil price manipulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 More on the real reason behind high oil prices Part II As detailed in an earlier article, a conservative calculation is that at least 60% of today’s $128 per barrel price of crude oil comes from unregulated futures speculation by hedge funds, banks and financial groups using the London ICE Futures and New York NYMEX futures exchanges and uncontrolled inter-bank or Over-The-Counter trading to avoid scrutiny. US margin rules of the government’s Commodity Futures Trading Commission allow speculators to buy a crude oil futures contract on the Nymex, by having to pay only 6% of the value of the contract. At today's price of $128 per barrel, that means a futures trader only has to put up about $8 for every barrel. He borrows the other $120. This extreme “leverage” of 16 to 1 helps drive prices to wildly unrealistic levels and offset bank losses in sub-prime and other disasters at the expense of the overall population. While I make no claims to the veracity of this opinion...I'm not knowledgeable enough to do so....I was wondering exactly why some liberal economists call speculators "parasites." Maybe this sort of thing is the answer to that question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 More on the real reason behind high oil prices Part II As detailed in an earlier article, a conservative calculation is that at least 60% of today’s $128 per barrel price of crude oil comes from unregulated futures speculation by hedge funds, banks and financial groups using the London ICE Futures and New York NYMEX futures exchanges and uncontrolled inter-bank or Over-The-Counter trading to avoid scrutiny. US margin rules of the government’s Commodity Futures Trading Commission allow speculators to buy a crude oil futures contract on the Nymex, by having to pay only 6% of the value of the contract. At today's price of $128 per barrel, that means a futures trader only has to put up about $8 for every barrel. He borrows the other $120. This extreme “leverage” of 16 to 1 helps drive prices to wildly unrealistic levels and offset bank losses in sub-prime and other disasters at the expense of the overall population. The hoax of Peak Oil—namely the argument that the oil production has hit the point where more than half all reserves have been used and the world is on the downslope of oil at cheap price and abundant quantity—has enabled this costly fraud to continue since the invasion of Iraq in 2003 with the help of key banks, oil traders and big oil majors. Washington is trying to shift blame, as always, to Arab OPEC producers. The problem is not a lack of crude oil supply. In fact the world is in over-supply now. Yet the price climbs relentlessly higher. Why? The answer lies in what are clearly deliberate US government policies that permit the unbridled oil price manipulations. Here's one where we agree, Whizzer! Oil has been turned into just another commodity on the stock exchange and thus disconnected from much of the reality of the situation. If the perception of the moment is that the supply of oil is in danger it doesn't matter about the fact that Libya is less than 2% of the supply. The perception is enough to send the price soaring on the stock exchange, like that of copper or the stock price of a drug company. I also agree that this is the result of deliberate policy, and not just those of the American governments. Our own and that of many other countries has done the same, in order to allow well connected friends, supporters and even some politicians themselves the chance to make a pile of money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Only partly true, the main reason being oil speculators bumping the price up for their own financial benefit... "A crisis" simply gives oil speculators the means to do it without public revolt... I don't doubt that crisis are used to jack up prices by some and that highly leveraged futures buying benefits no one but the speculators but futures are exactly that. Hedging is something else but can effect the market in the same way. Airlines, shipping companies and other large users of fuels will contract large quantities of fuel in advance in order to help protect themselves from future higher prices. If prices go down, they are stuck with buying it at the higher hedged price and they lose. Investing in futures you are betting demand will increase at a greater rate than supply. If it doesn't, you lose. However, when it comes to long term prices it is entirely true. Demand dropped when the worlds economy tanked in 08. As the economy recovered, prices have steadily increased. Like every other commodity, the price of oil reflects the health of the worlds economy. It's true that oil companies are not interested in creating an over supply. Why would they? Lets face it, if you are a producer of commodities, why invest billions just so you can make less. We are addicted to oil and instead of whining about we should be looking for ways to break that addiction. The best way to bring oil prices down is to put oil in a position where it has to compete in the market with other forms of energy. Otherwise we are just druggies whining about the price of crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Here's one where we agree, Whizzer! Oil has been turned into just another commodity on the stock exchange and thus disconnected from much of the reality of the situation. If the perception of the moment is that the supply of oil is in danger it doesn't matter about the fact that Libya is less than 2% of the supply. The perception is enough to send the price soaring on the stock exchange, like that of copper or the stock price of a drug company. I also agree that this is the result of deliberate policy, and not just those of the American governments. Our own and that of many other countries has done the same, in order to allow well connected friends, supporters and even some politicians themselves the chance to make a pile of money! Always glad to get agreement on issues my friend... The TRUTH has a way of slicing through rhetoric, falsehoods and obfuscations on ALL sides of any issue or argument... I'll have to find you the LINK (read MARRIAGE) between the Harper Gov. and Lockheed Martin (and US Gov. interests vs Canadian interests), perhaps you ultimately will come to a somewhat simular conclussion on that issue as well... Lockheed Martin Canada - Contracted for Untendered Canadian census - untendered Navy Ship Refurbishments - untendered F-35 PURCHASE vs right to purchase - +???? ... Total cost to Canadian taxpayers (Harper to LM) approx. - 50 BILLION DOLLARS+ and climbing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouterjim Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Gas and oil prices are up again because of the situation in the Middle-East but Libya only supplies 2% of the world's supply and I can't help but wonder if this was planned by OPEC or others. OPEC says they have oil to replace what Libya supplies , so why is the prices so high? Last fall I heard gas and oil CEO`s say gas prices in North America would be 4-5.00 by the end of summer 2011. Makes one wonder who is really control the world`s economy. http://www1.albawaba.com/no-oil-worries-over-libya-upset-we-have-oil-everyone-announce-saudi-uae-oil-bosses let's not forget that in Canada, our oil prices were set to "world prices" by Pierre Elliot Asshole Trudeau and his National Energy Program (which was nothing more than a cash grab for Ontario). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 let's not forget that in Canada, our oil prices were set to "world prices" by Pierre Elliot Asshole Trudeau and his National Energy Program (which was nothing more than a cash grab for Ontario). 100% false and in fact the opposite of what PET tried to do with his NEP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouterjim Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 100% false and in fact the opposite of what PET tried to do with his NEP... Wrong. Ontario claimed that "half of Alberta's oil revenues were Ontario's by God given right". When Alberta refused to give Ontario any revenue, the Ontario government went to Asshole Trudeau, and whined. He brought in the NEP to placate them, and to force Alberta to charge higher rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Wrong. Ontario claimed that "half of Alberta's oil revenues were Ontario's by God given right". When Alberta refused to give Ontario any revenue, the Ontario government went to Asshole Trudeau, and whined. He brought in the NEP to placate them, and to force Alberta to charge higher rates. Rinse and repeat - 100% wrong - What part of NATIONAL energy program do YOU not understand? It's Alberta that got "ticked" by the program because THEY wanted ALL the Oil Profits and didn't want to share them with the rest of Canada... PET wanted to implement the NEP for the benefit of ALL Canadians... But it wasn't JUST Oil, ALL natural energy resources were to be for the benefit of ALL Canadians not just in the province they may reside in... Look it up... Edited February 27, 2011 by GWiz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 let's not forget that in Canada, our oil prices were set to "world prices" by Pierre Elliot Asshole Trudeau and his National Energy Program (which was nothing more than a cash grab for Ontario). Yes and no, Scouterjim. "A cash grab for Ontario" may have been the official reason but that's not the way things actually worked out. I remember those times. PetroCan was always the first to raise prices and the last to lower them! I boycotted PetroCan from day one. What I found particularly offensive was that here in the East there wasn't a drop of Canadian oil in a gallon of PetroCan. It all came from Libya and Venezuela. The NEP never saved an Ontarioan a penny! The extra profit always went to Ottawa. Supposedly the money "trickled down" but nobody could ever see that happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Rinse and repeat - 100% wrong - What part of NATIONAL energy program do YOU not understand? It's Alberta that got "ticked" by the program because THEY wanted ALL the Oil Profits and didn't want to share them with the rest of Canada... PET wanted to implement the NEP for the benefit of ALL Canadians... But it wasn't JUST Oil, ALL natural energy resources were to be for the benefit of ALL Canadians not just in the province they may reside in... Look it up... Didn't that violate our Constitution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Didn't that violate our Constitution? Nope... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF/PF Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 It's a fact....oil companies average less than 10% profit margin, which is less than banking, pharma, entertainment, telecom, and several other sectors. I don't know why people freak out just over gasoline prices. If you can't afford it, find an alternative like millions of others. If Oil companies operated on a profit margin of less than 10%, every one of them would have gone bankrupt in the fall of 2008 when oil prices plummeted. In fact, rather than bankruptcy, they continued to see billion dollar profits. Refineries do operate on smaller margins than the oil industry as a whole. But its an outright fabrication to suggest that big oil operates on less than a 10% profit margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 If Oil companies operated on a profit margin of less than 10%, every one of them would have gone bankrupt in the fall of 2008 when oil prices plummeted. In fact, rather than bankruptcy, they continued to see billion dollar profits. Some of them do....billion dollar profits are nothing compared to gross revenue and investment. Refineries do operate on smaller margins than the oil industry as a whole. But its an outright fabrication to suggest that big oil operates on less than a 10% profit margin. No it's not... The average net profit margin for the S&P Energy sector, according to figures from Thomson Baseline, is 9.7%. The average for the S&P 500 is 8.5%. So yes, energy companies are more profitable than many others...but not by an inordinate amount. http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/29/markets/thebuzz/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouterjim Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Gas and oil prices are up again because of the situation in the Middle-East but Libya only supplies 2% of the world's supply and I can't help but wonder if this was planned by OPEC or others. OPEC says they have oil to replace what Libya supplies , so why is the prices so high? Last fall I heard gas and oil CEO`s say gas prices in North America would be 4-5.00 by the end of summer 2011. Makes one wonder who is really control the world`s economy. http://www1.albawaba.com/no-oil-worries-over-libya-upset-we-have-oil-everyone-announce-saudi-uae-oil-bosses Repeat after me, "Gouging is an oil companies best friend". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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