jbg Posted November 6, 2010 Report Share Posted November 6, 2010 This article, Saudi Border With Yemen Is Still Inviting for Al Qaeda (link in headline, excerpts below) highlingts Saudi Arabia's resistance to specifically terrorist migration from Yemen to Saudi Arabia,. One wonders why, in the minds of people who are almost blindly in favor of swamping Canada with the worlds' supply of potential immigrants, it's O.K. for Saudi Arabia to exclude their own Muslim Arab brethren, but Canada must seek out the return of the likes of the Khadr family. The latest effort to create a dubious reunion is not the first time Canada has shown solicitude towards this openly hostile and deadly family. And the same people think Canada's duty-bound to accept all comers from these lands despite the fact that many (though not all of them) have zero desire to particpate in or join Canadian culture. To quote Led Zeppellin "oooo it makes you wonder". Saudi Border With Yemen Is Still Inviting for Al Qaeda New York Times Published: October 26, 2010 By ROBERT F. WORTH ON THE SAUDI-YEMENI BORDER — The five Yemeni men, all of them rail-thin, clutched their knees as they sat staring across the sand at the narrow road, which separates the Arab world’s poorest country from its richest. “They’re waiting for us to move on,” said the Saudi border guard with a weary smile, as he sat watching from the front seat of a gleaming S.U.V. “Waiting so they can try to cross.” This remote 1,100-mile frontier, once a casual crossing point for Bedouins and goats, has become an emblem of the increasingly global threats emanating from Yemen: fighters from Al Qaeda, Shiite insurgents, drugs and arms smuggling and, well under the world’s radar, one of the largest flows of economic refugees on earth. Every day hundreds of illegal migrants are caught and sent back to Yemen, Saudi officials say, including many who have come from Africa and across Yemen’s deserts fleeing war and hunger. The porousness of the border is essential to Al Qaeda’s Yemen-based branch, which has become a major terrorism concern for the United States as well as Arab countries. Al Qaeda draws recruits from Saudi Arabia, where they can cross and recross without being noticed, and it has sent militants across to try to kill Saudi leaders in their efforts to topple the oil-rich kingdom. ******************** But far more numerous are the illegal migrants, hundreds of thousands of them annually in recent years. Most are caught and sent back to Yemen after being held in crowded border detention centers for a day or so. Many have crossed the sea to Yemen from Somalia or Ethiopia, risking death on rickety boats in shark-infested waters. Most of the survivors make the arduous journey through Yemen’s arid mountains only to be turned back at the Saudi border. (snip) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 6, 2010 Report Share Posted November 6, 2010 Canada doesn't really have all that much of an illegal immigration problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 6, 2010 Report Share Posted November 6, 2010 Canada doesn't really have all that much of an illegal immigration problem. Yeah... Mexicans would have to dig a pretty long tunnel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TrueMetis Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 Yeah... Mexicans would have to dig a pretty long tunnel... Or make one hell of a trip by boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 Canada doesn't really have all that much of an illegal immigration problem. The point is why is Canada welcoming so many legal immigrants that Saudi Arabia itself won't touch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 The point is why is Canada welcoming so many legal immigrants that Saudi Arabia itself won't touch? I'm sorry, but you haven't provided any proof that we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) I'm sorry, but you haven't provided any proof that we are. Erm...The Khadr's come to mind... Of coursemy wife is African...I wonder if she's one of the Saudi "undesireables"? Edited November 7, 2010 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 Erm...The Khadr's come to mind... There are always some that will slip through. There is no evidence of widespread problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 There are always some that will slip through. There is no evidence of widespread problems. Yeah,but they're a big one...We have problems with Tamil Tiger members extorting money from law abiding Tamils in this country...Radical Islamofascists in mosques inciting blood vengeance and hatred...We have Old World enmity rearing its ugly head all over this country in the failed ethnic enclaves multiculturalism has set up.. Things are'nt as rosey as one might think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 Yeah,but they're a big one...We have problems with Tamil Tiger members extorting money from law abiding Tamils in this country...Radical Islamofascists in mosques inciting blood vengeance and hatred...We have Old World enmity rearing its ugly head all over this country in the failed ethnic enclaves multiculturalism has set up.. Things are'nt as rosey as one might think... It's not nearly as bas as some make out either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 It's not nearly as bas as some make out either. I agree,however I tend to think the flowery idea that Multicutluralism is a perfect idea that cannot be questioned and/or changed is completely wrongheaded... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 I agree,however I tend to think the flowery idea that Multicutluralism is a perfect idea that cannot be questioned and/or changed is completely wrongheaded... I'm not sure what we'd change to though. Canada has always been built on the idea of compromise. That is part of philosophies like multiculturalism. I agree there are certainly some problems, but overall, many parts of multiculturalism are successful...even if some very bad things sometimes come with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 I'm not sure what we'd change to though. Canada has always been built on the idea of compromise. That is part of philosophies like multiculturalism. I agree there are certainly some problems, but overall, many parts of multiculturalism are successful...even if some very bad things sometimes come with. The biggest fallacy with the idea is that somehow,magically,people of completely different backgrounds and ethnicities would somehow miraculously come together.This,of course,is completely absurd!What has happened is that,instead of making people more "Canadian",we have people who live here but are really still whatever they were before they came here. This phony idea that multicuturalism has created a "mosaic' across this country is nothing more than a talking point crock!What it has done is set up untennable ethnic enclaves,where whatever cultural baggage people had(or maybe were trying to escape from) does'nt go away,but continues unabated here... I have an idea on how to stop this,with historical precedent,but the sucky politically correct types would never go for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visionseeker Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 The point is why is Canada welcoming so many legal immigrants that Saudi Arabia itself won't touch? Yup. We so bad that we let in the 9/11 crew... Not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) Yup. We so bad that we let in the 9/11 crew... Not. This thread is not about 911 and my post is not blaming Canada for 911 though many Canadians, including Chretien, were in some cases smug with the result and a few were happy.1 My post is about the fact that both of our countries are welcoming people who don't want to be assimilated into our culture and can't be. We do so out of a spurious sense of "openness". Let's be clear about the proper kind of openness, and one that applies to all races and religions. There are people who want to rise to the level of their ability, regardless of gender, tribal affiliation or ancient superstition. There are people, including virtually all females, relegated to a subservient life under many foreign cultures. Free lands such as the U.S. and Canada offer such an opportunity. But not when they let immigrant enclaves apply their own backwards "law" to their people, keeping them in bondage in a free land. We are under no moral or ethical duty to foster the creation of such enclaves. We do benefit, though, from welcoming motivated people who want a decent lives for themselves and their families denied to them in their country of origin. And those people generally want to make the U.S. and Canada a better place as well. 1Yes, Chretien opened the airports to U.S. planes and many Canadians openly and warmly hosted U.S. fliers in their houses without complaint and with little hope of compensation. The attitude I am referring to was the attitude expressed in Chretien's interview released one year after the attacks that the West brought the attacks on themselves. Edited November 7, 2010 by jbg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) The biggest fallacy with the idea is that somehow,magically,people of completely different backgrounds and ethnicities would somehow miraculously come together.This,of course,is completely absurd! I'm not sure it's so absurd. Canada has been rather successful throughout its history. I have seen evidence contrary to what you're saying (at universities, for example). As I've said, there is no question that multiculturalism has problems, but the problem is not so widespread, IMO. Edited November 7, 2010 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) I'm not sure it's so absurd. Canada has been rather successful throughout its history. i have seen evidence contrary to what you're saying (at universities, for example). As I've said, there is no question that multiculturalism has problems, but the problem is not as widespread. I'm inclined to agree. The problems that exist can easily get bloated out of all proportion in the imagination, not least by the incessant repetition of how it's supposedly not working at all. The result can be a kind of xenophobia--not generated from bigotry, but which perhaps helps lead towards it. And even if that's not accurate, it still appears that the loathing of multiculturalism can become very quickly and easily an unreasoning stance, as different concerns--immigrant poverty, terrorism, changes in the cultural landscape--become conflated into a single or related threat within some imaginations. Edited November 7, 2010 by bloodyminded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) Some might say multiculturalism has failed in Canada, but I don't believe at all that it has. People living in distinct cultural groups, or the mosaic concept IS what Canadian style multiculturalism is all about. There is no error here, Jackie Veber. People are allowed, to, even supposed to come here to live and continue enjoying their own cultural practices. The caveat is, within the confines of Canadian law, of course. But the key ingredient that is sometimes lacking yet most important is, tolerance of other cultures, and eventually even appreciation for the other. For it's in this that a real identifiable "Canadian culture" actually exists. In this regard Canada must do a better job educating newcomers about it, because it's what makes this country unique. "Oh Canada... " Edited November 7, 2010 by Sir Bandelot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) And even if that's not accurate, it still appears that the loathing of multiculturalism can become very quickly and easily an unreasoning stance, as different concerns--immigrant poverty, terrorism, changes in the cultural landscape--become conflated into a single or related threat within some imaginations. Or maybe we look to other places and don't want to see that happening here? I don't particularly want to see the day Mohhamed is the most popular name for baby boys in Canada. I don't particularly want to see cities given over to Muslims who have the same cultural baggage and religious attitudes as they had in the old, failed lands they came from. Jews flee Malmo Swedish Welfare State Collapsing under Immigrant strain Edited November 7, 2010 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 Or maybe we look to other places and don't want to see that happening here? I don't particularly want to see the day Mohhamed is the most popular name for baby boys in Canada. I don't particularly want to see cities given over to Muslims who have the same cultural baggage and religious attitudes as they had in the old, failed lands they came from. Jews flee Malmo Swedish Welfare State Collapsing under Immigrant strain I could have qualified my statements even further than I already did: I wasn't speaking of everyone who has serious reservations about Canada's immigration policies. As with any political issue, any at all, the raised voices are generated from profoundly diverse opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 I could have qualified my statements even further than I already did: I wasn't speaking of everyone who has serious reservations about Canada's immigration policies. As with any political issue, any at all, the raised voices are generated from profoundly diverse opinions. That's fine and dandy, but the phrase I'm really replying to is "in their imaginations". I don't think my concern about the growing unassimilated Muslim population here (doubling in size every five years) is a product of imaginary worries given what I've seen and read about in countries which are ahead of us on the graph like Sweden, France and the UK. Do you think Malmo saw this coming a couple of decades ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 I'm not sure it's so absurd. Canada has been rather successful throughout its history. I have seen evidence contrary to what you're saying (at universities, for example). As I've said, there is no question that multiculturalism has problems, but the problem is not so widespread, IMO. True... Universities are where people are forced to interact with each other... This does'nt seem to happen naturally,though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 True... Universities are where people are forced to interact with each other... This does'nt seem to happen naturally,though... Canada is really an unnatural experiment - a country almost completely built on other cultures. Hopefully we'll be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 Some might say multiculturalism has failed in Canada, but I don't believe at all that it has. People living in distinct cultural groups, or the mosaic concept IS what Canadian style multiculturalism is all about. There is no error here, Jackie Veber. People are allowed, to, even supposed to come here to live and continue enjoying their own cultural practices. The caveat is, within the confines of Canadian law, of course. But the key ingredient that is sometimes lacking yet most important is, tolerance of other cultures, and eventually even appreciation for the other. For it's in this that a real identifiable "Canadian culture" actually exists. In this regard Canada must do a better job educating newcomers about it, because it's what makes this country unique. "Oh Canada... " Then multicuturalism is not about nation building,or making people more "Canadian"... It's simply a marketing ploy that tell people from other places that they can continue to be whatever they were before they got here,no questions asked... I then become very cynical about the policy,as it seems to be an attempt to drive down things like labour costs and punmp up population numbers...And nothing more or less... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 7, 2010 Report Share Posted November 7, 2010 It's simply a marketing ploy that tell people from other places that they can continue to be whatever they were before they got here,no questions asked... It's really a policy that says you can still be who you are, and at the same time become one of us. You'll learn from us, and you'll bring something with you that we can learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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