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In your mind I am a separatist. In my mind you're little different then the English across the ocean who called the colonists traitors for wanting to aspire to be equal to the motherland.

Overall I am a reConfederationalist. (my word. like it?)

You sure do set a lot of rules about who can post, how they'll post, what posts are legitimate etc.

And you say you're not their King?

Of Course, maybe you're right. This time round your subjects seem to have abandoned you.

And stop spelling SepArate wrong. Makes you look ignorant and like an under educated faker. Everyone makes a typo, Hell, I do so constantly and am one of the worst offenders anywhere but you haven't spelled the word correctly in the 15X you've used it as a pejorative over the last two days so smarten up.

The same as I treat everyone else. On merit.

1.I don't care what's on your mind...

ReConfederationist???

Sounds a little like Confederate...Which makes me think of things like an armed insurrection...Which makes me think of Sherman's Neckties,torching Atlanta,and,his March to the Sea...

2.You have every right to post whatever your little heart desires...When you fly the flag of a traitor on your avatar,you also have every right to take the abuse you correctly deserve.

3.Please elucidate for all of us where my subjects seem to have abandoned me???

No one has coronated me any title at all,except you!

4.If I get the spelling wrong on a nicer moniker for treasonous scum,them so be it...

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And every time this issue comes up I ask again - why ? Is our system so bad that it needs an overhaul like this ? What are we supposed to achieve by going this way that we haven't achieved until now ?

More democracy isn`t enough of a reason?

The only thing i see as a problem is what some others have mentioned, that is people voting on matters they are not informed about and do not have the time to do so. One of the reasons we have elected officials to represent us is that the average working adult does not have the time to stay informed on all matters.

That being said, there are so many dolts on the hill that would this even matter? Also, if this were implemented very few Canadians would be voting on a regular basis anyways. I think it might be better to keep our Parliament the way it is for most of the menial legislation but substantially increase the # of referendums on key issues so every Canadian would have a chance to vote.

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More democracy isn`t enough of a reason?

The only thing i see as a problem is what some others have mentioned, that is people voting on matters they are not informed about and do not have the time to do so. One of the reasons we have elected officials to represent us is that the average working adult does not have the time to stay informed on all matters.

That being said, there are so many dolts on the hill that would this even matter? Also, if this were implemented very few Canadians would be voting on a regular basis anyways. I think it might be better to keep our Parliament the way it is for most of the menial legislation but substantially increase the # of referendums on key issues so every Canadian would have a chance to vote.

I suppose that the dumbing down of MP's is a direct reflection of the dumbing down of society,in general?

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1.I don't care what's on your mind...

ReConfederationist???

Sounds a little like Confederate...Which makes me think of things like an armed insurrection...Which makes me think of Sherman's Neckties,torching Atlanta,and,his March to the Sea...

2.You have every right to post whatever your little heart desires...When you fly the flag of a traitor on your avatar,you also have every right to take the abuse you correctly deserve.

3.Please elucidate for all of us where my subjects seem to have abandoned me???

No one has coronated me any title at all,except you!

4.If I get the spelling wrong on a nicer moniker for treasonous scum,them so be it...

1. Confederation is a Canadian word dopey. It shouldn't make you think of anything other then stuffy buildings and whiskered men in PEI looking for sovereignty association.

2. And then I'll burn in Hell for all eternity and my children's children will be plagued by venereal warts and bad breath and flying monkeys will defecate themselves over my homestead. I've heard it all from you Monarchists.

3. I guess where they've gone is a mystery to us both.

4. I'm just trying to help make you a more articulate bigot and extremist.

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1. Confederation is a Canadian word dopey. It shouldn't make you think of anything other then stuffy buildings and whiskered men in PEI looking for sovereignty association.

2. And then I'll burn in Hell for all eternity and my children's children will be plagued by venereal warts and bad breath and flying monkeys will defecate themselves over my homestead. I've heard it all from you Monarchists.

3. I guess where they've gone is a mystery to us both.

4. I'm just trying to help make you a more articulate bigot and extremist.

1.The only word from you that means anything is con...You're a traitor,and nothing more or less...

2.Now I'm a Monarchist...I pay no allegience to the Sachs Coburg'Goethe's in Westminster because I see them as essentially irrelevent...More clueless labeling...

3.Again Skippy,you labled me "The King"...No one else...

4.Aw...Resorting to the pathetic talking points of the average Alberta Republican...Feeble...

Edited by Jack Weber
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1.The only word from you that means anything is con...You're a traitor,and nothing more or less...

2.Now I'm a Monarchist...I pay no allegience to the Sachs Coburg'Goethe's in Westminster because I see them as essentially irrelevent...More clueless labeling...

3.Again Skippy,you labled me "The King"...No one else...

4.Aw...Resorting to the pathetic talking points of the average Alberta Republican...Feeble...

1. Here's the part I don't understand.....Do you think I'm a traitor?

2. You're the one upset by my republican flag.

3. OK. We'll leave it at that since it's such a sore point with you.

4. Yup, section 4 paragraph 6 of the Alberta Separatist Manual: Do not fully engage Canadians in debate until such time as they are able to communicate using the Queen's prose.

You called it. You're slick. Slicker then a greased eel in a bucket of waxed snot.

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That would explain a great deal. I'm not sure why else anyone would be so against the idea and existence of what is one of the greatest countries on this earth.

I'm not, that's just the perspective of Mr. Weber and convincing him otherwise would be like trying to convince a heroin addict on East Hastings that the taxpayer shouldn't have to pay for his next hit.

Besides, I enjoy watching him rant and accuse etc etc.

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1. Here's the part I don't understand.....Do you think I'm a traitor?

2. You're the one upset by my republican flag.

3. OK. We'll leave it at that since it's such a sore point with you.

4. Yup, section 4 paragraph 6 of the Alberta Separatist Manual: Do not fully engage Canadians in debate until such time as they are able to communicate using the Queen's prose.

You called it. You're slick. Slicker then a greased eel in a bucket of waxed snot.

1.If one flies the flag that represents seperation and secession of a province from a country when one is still a citizen of that country,I don't know what else that person could called,except a traitor...I suppose one could use the tried and true "One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter" excuse,but I don't think that applies here...

2.Republican Flag???You can call it whatever you like,it's a flag of secession

http://www.albertarepublicans.org

http://www.freealberta.com/republic_of_alberta.html

http://www.republicofalberta.com

Or do you deny any of the above that advocate for secession from this country,and the flag in your avatar symbolizing such secession?

If you don't advocate for these things,then I'm very sorry for misreading things and I'm simply wrong.

If you do admit that this is essentially what you're advocating for,then you are what I've said you are and you deserve nothing more than the derision you're receiving...

3.Another meaningless and incorrect Monarchist blast at me...I guess the homo stuff is'nt working anymore?

4.Boogers can be crusty...So can Eastern Bastards!!!

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1.If one flies the flag that represents seperation and secession of a province from a country when one is still a citizen of that country,I don't know what else that person could called,except a traitor...I suppose one could use the tried and true "One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter" excuse,but I don't think that applies here...

But what about the paradox when the traitor in question is more of a citizen then the accuser likely is?

2.Republican Flag???You can call it whatever you like,it's a flag of secession

http://www.albertarepublicans.org

http://www.freealberta.com/republic_of_alberta.html

http://www.republicofalberta.com

Or do you deny any of the above that advocate for secession from this country,and the flag in your avatar symbolizing such secession?

Nope.

If you don't advocate for these things,then I'm very sorry for misreading things and I'm simply wrong.

I have strong leanings of sympathy for them.

If you do admit that this is essentially what you're advocating for,then you are what I've said you are and you deserve nothing more than the derision you're receiving...

Tolerance, understanding and engaging in meaningful debate only goes so far as your preconceived notions huh?

3.Another meaningless and incorrect Monarchist blast at me...I guess the homo stuff is'nt working anymore?

Listen faggot, you're not a big fan of the Monarchy as I recall and technically under the current laws of this country, advocating SepAration over the dissolution of the Monarchy is less traitourous.

4.Boogers can be crusty...So can Eastern Bastards!!!

Especially when they freeze in the dark.

Edited by grainfedprairieboy
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But what about the paradox when the traitor in question is more of a citizen then the accuser likely is?

Nope.

I have strong leanings of sympathy for them.

Tolerance, understanding and engaging in meaningful debate only goes so far as your preconceived notions huh?

Listen faggot, you're not a big fan of the Monarchy as I recall and technically under the current laws of this country, advocating SepAration over the dissolution of the Monarchy is less traitourous.

Especially when they freeze in the dark.

1.Please explain how you are more of a patriot than me while advertizing a secessionist flag?

Agreed...That is paradoxical...

2."I have strong leanings of sympathy for them"...Sounds a little like,"I don't hate anyone..I just strongly dislike them"...potato/pota(h)to

3.See above as it relates to my "preconceived notions" on secessionists of any stripe...

4.Back to the homo stuff :rolleyes: ...The Confederacy thought it could just leave,as well...We know how that turned out...

5.No one's freezing in the dark here...Sir Adam Beck and Niagara Falls is only 45 KM's away!!!

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1.Please explain how you are more of a patriot than me while advertizing a secessionist flag?

1. I have deep roots on the prairie. My family fought at Batoche on both sides and were defined there. I have a spot in a closed St. Albert historical cemetery near an ancestor that is considered a hero of Canada (or an enemy of the Metis);

2. I am a wealth generator. I do not work for government or someone else. I create wealth, employ Canadians and help to generate a larger GDP;

3. I farm. It is the oldest profession and the foundation for civilisation, religion and every comfort you know. Again, I am an independent producer rather then a consumer or user;

4. I am a veteran. I have been deployed several times and dutifully went where my country demanded;

5. Despite my very busy schedule I remain a reservist and train both regular and reserve soldiers in the service of their country;

6. I believe absolutely in the principles of Confederation as expressed by the founding fathers of our country.

7. I pledged my eternal allegiance to Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith. I have never broke faith with Her unlike the many who commit treason to question the value of the Monarchy.

8. I refuse to purchase anything from abroad that I cannot buy in Canada first, even if it costs a bit more. I put in considerable research into products. This is no small amount either. My expenditures through myself, farm and company though small in the grand scheme, still exceed several million per year that could easily go overseas.

9. I travel extensively within Canada while my peers purchase homes in Arizona or California. I say someone mention the salmon run as an example and I was there at Adam`s river a week ago for just that.

10. Other things of interest: was the youngest ever member of the Canadian Club Hamilton chapter in the early 1980s. Worked as a minion with Mel Hurtig in the creation of the Canada Council and the National Party, orchestrated a petition drive and protests against Famous Players when they dropped the playing of the national anthem, put all my kids through French immersion even though I can`t string 10 words in French together, actively promoted the Turks and Caicos joining Confederation.

Bonus: Preparing to release from the primary reserve in the near future and planning to become an Honouary Colonel which means I donate $50,000 to an active military unit and am expected to pony up.

2."I have strong leanings of sympathy for them"...Sounds a little like,"I don't hate anyone..I just strongly dislike them"...potato/pota(h)to

I am not happy with the current inequities within Confederation. I am displeased with the way our leaders have sold out our country for their advancement of their parties. I am ashamed we are still a country and nowhere near being a nation.

4.Back to the homo stuff :rolleyes: ...The Confederacy thought it could just leave,as well...We know how that turned out...

Canada has legislation to facilitate the secession of any province.

5.No one's freezing in the dark here...Sir Adam Beck and Niagara Falls is only 45 KM's away!!!

The Golden Horseshoe is the largest man made environmental catastrophe in Canada and is easily visual from space. There are no plans to even reclaim any of the land let alone actually try to. The Golden Horseshoe is the greatest single contributor to Canada`s carbon emission totals

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More democracy isn`t enough of a reason?

No. If it were, then our goal would be unlimited democracy, endless public input and consultation and that is unworkable.

The only thing i see as a problem is what some others have mentioned, that is people voting on matters they are not informed about and do not have the time to do so. One of the reasons we have elected officials to represent us is that the average working adult does not have the time to stay informed on all matters.

Yes, that's true.

That being said, there are so many dolts on the hill that would this even matter?

The dumbest ones in the HofC have no influence and are told how to vote.

Also, if this were implemented very few Canadians would be voting on a regular basis anyways. I think it might be better to keep our Parliament the way it is for most of the menial legislation but substantially increase the # of referendums on key issues so every Canadian would have a chance to vote.

I think this might be a good idea. Or just ASK Canadians more - create online forums like this - perhaps by riding, where people can non-anonymously discuss their concerns.

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Why not start with Peoples Proposition # 1, whatever the hell that may be, as a rally point for at least some form of functional participation in the political process. The public needs to be actively persuaded to participate by means of referendum. Its just that simple, once the ball rotates around it will gain momentum quickly, numbers alone drive this equation. It needs to happen for all our sakes. On the near horizon we can already see the shape of things to come in terms of ecological impact. Since 2008 we have the economic impact to consider as well. The next step is of course a political one in which the lines are once again drawn in the sand on a global scale. This nation is uniquely able to profit from neutrality, which is closely linked to direct democracy. Short of an invasion, what would compel the people to declare war on another nation? In other words the true efforts of national security can best be served by declaring ourselves neutral. That we may benefit from the effort in more ways than one is simply a reward for doing the right thing and avoiding the sanctioned violence of warfare.

Empowerment of the people should be the prime concern for a political faction, instead we have the empowerment of the partisan faction that seeks control of the populace. WE need new politics and new tactics in order to step forward into an evolved and enlightened society. Ask all the citizens you want, but you will get the same answers from each to a question of what is more important to our society, education and health care or foreign policy and the military? What direction does that lead to folks? Certainly away from any military industrial complex of that there is no doubt. If the citizens had their way health care and secondary education would be at state expense ! Trust me on this folks, direct democracy would change the face of this nation like the work of a good plastic surgeon. With that in mind, I suggest we go slow with any concept of change.

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If the citizens had their way health care and secondary education would be at state expense ! Trust me on this folks, direct democracy would change the face of this nation like the work of a good plastic surgeon. With that in mind, I suggest we go slow with any concept of change.

The thing is, I don't think there would be as much change as you think. The results we get are more or less a result of what people want.

In terms of reaching out to people, I get the sense of alienation in what you write. I would concur that the government should meet people half-way: reach out, but also people have to reach out. Reaching out should come in two favours:

1) To people who are willing to put an effort in, go to meetings, attend online forums - we should engage in ongoing discussion, and working groups to come up with potential solutions.

2) To people who only pay attention half the time at best, a simple-click internet poll on certain issues, to be used as a gateway to determine whether approaches should be explored.

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The thing is, I don't think there would be as much change as you think. The results we get are more or less a result of what people want.

In terms of reaching out to people, I get the sense of alienation in what you write. I would concur that the government should meet people half-way: reach out, but also people have to reach out. Reaching out should come in two favours:

1) To people who are willing to put an effort in, go to meetings, attend online forums - we should engage in ongoing discussion, and working groups to come up with potential solutions.

2) To people who only pay attention half the time at best, a simple-click internet poll on certain issues, to be used as a gateway to determine whether approaches should be explored.

A good start, yet it doesn't really get there from here does it? I know what you are saying, and I do not disagree with what you have said, but I still maintain that politics have been kept away from the people since the dawn of time. Mostly for good reason, an educated position is far more valuable than an ignorant position. That was fine when most of the population were ignorant, but such is no longer the case. Thats really what it boils down to. We are now educated to the point where we have earned the right to self determination. Is that not where our society has lead us? We can and do choose what we do for the most part, and for most of us things work out okay. We are not children, we are citizens living in what is supposed to be an already enlightened society. Surely we deserve the opportunity to participate in a political process that often has determined the course of lives.

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A good start, yet it doesn't really get there from here does it? I know what you are saying, and I do not disagree with what you have said, but I still maintain that politics have been kept away from the people since the dawn of time. Mostly for good reason, an educated position is far more valuable than an ignorant position. That was fine when most of the population were ignorant, but such is no longer the case. Thats really what it boils down to. We are now educated to the point where we have earned the right to self determination. Is that not where our society has lead us? We can and do choose what we do for the most part, and for most of us things work out okay. We are not children, we are citizens living in what is supposed to be an already enlightened society. Surely we deserve the opportunity to participate in a political process that often has determined the course of lives.

We are educated, but you still have large numbers of people who don't know who the PM is, how Canada works and so on. My view is: these people aren't interested, so we shouldn't try to include them.

We would do well to involve those with opinions, such as those on MLW.

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We are educated, but you still have large numbers of people who don't know who the PM is, how Canada works and so on. My view is: these people aren't interested, so we shouldn't try to include them.

We would do well to involve those with opinions, such as those on MLW.

Of course we have large numbers of ignorant citizens still, yet they are at least educated to a large degree. The trick is to find an issue of relevance to the public, one of consequence. That done, the public, the great unwashed public can be mobolized in dramatic fashion. The only sticker is finding the issue to use as leverage! The entire public needs to be invited to participate in the system, that is the key! Democracy is for all, and it is as much of a responsibility as a right. We need to drive this home through the education system as we put the boots on the ground of the political landscape. We need a broad based approach to our political and cultural evolution. Those two things are as sure as the sun rising, and they need to be considered with care. WE need to carefully design changes to society.

Change is always happening, in one form or another. It is the only true constant. Changes achieved by design are far more powerful and effective, waiting for it, as a "social engineering" tool. That is what we are really talking about, so lets not hide behind words.

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Of course we have large numbers of ignorant citizens still, yet they are at least educated to a large degree. The trick is to find an issue of relevance to the public, one of consequence. That done, the public, the great unwashed public can be mobolized in dramatic fashion. The only sticker is finding the issue to use as leverage! The entire public needs to be invited to participate in the system, that is the key!

You can invite them, I agree, but many won`t participate.

Democracy is for all, and it is as much of a responsibility as a right. We need to drive this home through the education system as we put the boots on the ground of the political landscape. We need a broad based approach to our political and cultural evolution. Those two things are as sure as the sun rising, and they need to be considered with care. WE need to carefully design changes to society.

At this point I have to ask what you`re asking people to do ? Give their opinion ? There`s only so much input needed, is the thing.

Change is always happening, in one form or another. It is the only true constant. Changes achieved by design are far more powerful and effective, waiting for it, as a "social engineering" tool. That is what we are really talking about, so lets not hide behind words.

Maybe we can go through a specific example at this point ?

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The People is not a politically monolithic entity. Factions are an inevitability.

Very true...

We have obvious regional issues,which are morphing into literal cultural difference issues.We have splits in urban and rural societal viewpoints.We have different perceptions of morality issues...All seem unreconcilable and could never be represented properly by a monolithic "We,the People" sort of movement...

Sadly,this has manifested into the gang politics we are all forced to endure.Most of us,at least I get this feeling,plug our noses when we vote because no one party accurately reflects any of our personal ideologies...We are forced to find the one that sorta/kinda fits the best...

Edited by Jack Weber
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We have obvious regional issues,which are morphing into literal cultural difference issues.We have splits in urban and rural societal viewpoints.We have different perceptions of morality issues...All seem unreconcilable and could never be represented properly by a monolithic "We,the People" sort of movement...

No different to anywhere else at any other point in time. "We the People" has always been an American myth; the constitution of the United States was never voted on by the people and didn't even get unanimous consent from state representatives.

Sadly,this has manifested into the gang politics we are all forced to endure.Most of us,at least I get this feeling,plug our noses when we vote because no one party accurately reflects any of our personal ideologies...We are forced to find the one that sorta/kinda fits the best...

Well, as Churchill's old saying goes: "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others."

You're always free to start a party of your own, I guess.

[+]

Edited by g_bambino
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