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Canadian soldier found not guilty in 'mercy-killing' of wounde


wyly

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so this is an interesting situation, here we have a Canadian on trial in a Canadian court for a mercy killing and is found not guilty of murder...he may receive 5 years in jail for dishonorable conduct

not so long ago another canadian Robert Latimer was found guilty of 2nd degree murder also for a mercy killing...how can one mercy killing get a mild sentence and the other life?...

how can we get two so very different results for very similar actions?

then there is the situation of the Toronto shop keeper ending up in court for catching the guy who previously robbed him and had come back to rob him a 2nd time when he was caught...

some of our laws and legal decisions are really bizarre...

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So, in the first part of your post, you say that we shouldn't treat people differently (even though, despite what you claim, the circumstances are very different, even by virtue of the setting). In the second part, you wonder why crimes aren't treated differently. What the shop keeper did, the way that he did it, was kidnapping....which is more serious than theft....and so it was treated as such.

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so this is an interesting situation, here we have a Canadian on trial in a Canadian court for a mercy killing and is found not guilty of murder...he may receive 5 years in jail for dishonorable conduct

not so long ago another canadian Robert Latimer was found guilty of 2nd degree murder also for a mercy killing...how can one mercy killing get a mild sentence and the other life?...

how can we get two so very different results for very similar actions?

then there is the situation of the Toronto shop keeper ending up in court for catching the guy who previously robbed him and had come back to rob him a 2nd time when he was caught...

some of our laws and legal decisions are really bizarre...

How? That's a tough one. This situation has grown up over the years as we have had more and more of a disconnect between the mainstream population's concept of justice and that of those in the "system" who actually control it.

It breeds disrespect and a lack of confidence in the 'system' to protect us. After all, if you stop and apprehend someone who is stealing from you and YOU get charged how on earth can you keep confidence?

There was a quick panel discussion on my local TV station last evening about this issue. The 'defendant' for the 'system' kept saying that we Canadians had chosen to accept life sentences over capital punishment. Now I don't know about you but I don't remember ever being asked for my opinion on that topic. I don't remember ever having it as a major campaign plank either. The Liberals just up and did it! Of course, you could vote against them the following election but that argument is always specious. A voter has to weigh ALL the planks! We vote in an entire party's package and rarely have the luxury of a 'line item veto'.

The interviewer also challenged the representative over the meaning of a 'life' sentence, which of course in Canada is not life at all but rather 25 years or shorter, depending on parole factors. The fact that multiple murderers serve all their murder convictions at the same time rather than consecutively was also brought up, as something at odds with the mainstream concept of justice.

The representative never really did answer these points! Instead, he started ranting about 'vigilantes bearing torches' and lynch mobs. He actually said that one of the problems with our system is that we listen to much to 'emotional' victims who just want revenge and for that reason should be barred from the process!

I dunno, Wyly. It's just nuts!

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So, in the first part of your post, you say that we shouldn't treat people differently (even though, despite what you claim, the circumstances are very different, even by virtue of the setting). In the second part, you wonder why crimes aren't treated differently.

I didn't say that at all...these two cases are similar, two people who both believed they were being compassionate in ending another's suffering, neither of the deceased had any hope of survival...
What the shop keeper did, the way that he did it, was kidnapping....which is more serious than theft....and so it was treated as such.
that's crazy, if the police are seeking a known serial killer and I apprehend that killer before he can kill again now suddenly I'm a criminal? laws aren't well thought out...
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I didn't say that at all...these two cases are similar, two people who both believed they were being compassionate in ending another's suffering, neither of the deceased had any hope of survival...

There is a world of difference. Latimer's daughter had years of life ahead of her with pain mitigated by medication. Her life was a burden borne by her parents. Her death not only ended her suffering, it ended her parents troubles as well. By all acounts the insurgent had hours to live with no hope of survival and no hope his suffering could be eased.

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How? That's a tough one. This situation has grown up over the years as we have had more and more of a disconnect between the mainstream population's concept of justice and that of those in the "system" who actually control it.

And I would counter that those who feel disconnect should learn the system. It aint perfect I know, but most complaints seem to stem from ignorance of said system. Far too many have a vigilante style in their heads, not a true justice system. See todays dismissal of child porn charges as an example.

It breeds disrespect and a lack of confidence in the 'system' to protect us. After all, if you stop and apprehend someone who is stealing from you and YOU get charged how on earth can you keep confidence?

Case in point.Thank you.

However, someone stealing from you can be held, there is no problem with that. No charges either.

The interviewer also challenged the representative over the meaning of a 'life' sentence, which of course in Canada is not life at all but rather 25 years or shorter, depending on parole factors. The fact that multiple murderers serve all their murder convictions at the same time rather than consecutively was also brought up, as something at odds with the mainstream concept of justice.

Except it is a life sentence.

Some charges are given for the full 25 behind bars, however they are under state supervision until they die.

I too would like consecutive more often than concurrent, however that is a rare occurnence in this country.

He actually said that one of the problems with our system is that we listen to much to 'emotional' victims who just want revenge and for that reason should be barred from the process!

I dunno, Wyly. It's just nuts!

hes half right. We shouldnt listen to the victims but deal with the facts. A victim wants nothing short of death for plenty of crimes.

Rob me...Die scum!!

But that is not correct and I shouldnt be asked what I want.

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By all acounts the insurgent had hours to live with no hope of survival and no hope his suffering could be eased.

Nonsense, Semrau could and should have whistled up a helicopter to transport him to a hospital, especially if he had hours to live.

This case reminds me of a point I often heard being made at first aid training courses about continuing all efforts to treat someone until you are relieved by someone with a higher level of training, like a doctor or paramedic. It is often important to the family and loved one's of the injured patient to know that everything that could have been done to save them was done. In the context of an insurgency this point becomes a lot more relevant in a war that includes a struggle for people's hearts and minds.

Shooting him like a dog in the street was a particularly stupid and short-sighted thing to do. For all we know the injured insurgent could have survived and gone on to be a spokesman for peace out of gratitude for having been saved, OTOH, some member of his family could right now be donning a suicide vest in preparation to avenge his death.

Edited by eyeball
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Nonsense, Semrau could and should have whistled up a helicopter to transport him to a hospital, especially if he had hours to live.

If you are so sure a helicopter was available....please find the source that says exactly that, that semaru could have and didn't.

...otherwise I will only assume it's another one of your federation space cadet phantasies..

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However, someone stealing from you can be held, there is no problem with that. No charges either.

Ah, no! Just ask David Chen, a Toronto Chinatown grocery store owner. A thief stole from him and had the nerve to come back an hour later to try to steal some more! David chased him, tied him up and threw him in the back of his van and called police.

The police promptly charged David with assaulting the thief!

http://www.albertalocalnews.com/reddeeradvocate/news/national/Store_owner_charged_in_citizens_arrest_on_trial_104490629.html

"The accused have said they were simply making a citizen’s arrest, and Chen’s lawyer says he never should have been charged.

At issue is the fact that Chen did not catch Bennett red-handed, but about an hour after he had shoplifted. The law states you can only make a citizen’s arrest when you catch someone in the act.

Bennett testified that he stole flowers from Chen’s store in May 2009 and then came back later to try and steal more.

A silent surveillance video played in court Wednesday showed Bennett running off after Chen calmly approached him, touched his shoulder and pointed towards his store.

Bennett said he panicked and ran down the alley, and that’s when three men chased him.

“All three of them started duct taping and then started twining my legs up and my hand,” Bennett said, complaining of a thumb injury that he claimed lasted for “months and months.”

“They hit me a few times on the way in while they were trying to subdue me.”

He testified that he didn’t fight back because he was afraid those who tied him up would grow “more violent.”

Now we all know that Toronto is a bit squirrelish anyhow but still, they do tend to be trendsetters for legal silliness across the nation.

Similar cases have happened before. There was one a few years ago about a jewelry store owner in Cambridge, Ontario. He had been robbed so many times that he could no longer get business insurance, at any price! So he fired a shotgun loaded with rocksalt at a robber. He deliberately fired too low, hoping to scare the perp. Unfortunately for the store owner, some of the rocksalt pellets richocetted up and hit the perp in the leg. The store owner was also charged and it was pointed out in some newspaper reports that he faced more severe penalties for a few grains of rock salt than did the robber for stealing jewelry!

As usual, most Canadians are blissfully unaware that this is how far things have gone. We don't pay any attention unless and until it happens to us. Then we get frustrated because no one else will believe us!

It's just the Canadian way, I guess.

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Ah, no! Just ask David Chen, a Toronto Chinatown grocery store owner. A thief stole from him and had the nerve to come back an hour later to try to steal some more! David chased him, tied him up and threw him in the back of his van and called police.

Uh yeah, it is.

Please read it again. He came back and then Chen grabbed him and threw him in a van. Thats criminal behaviour. What is so hard to understand?

Here...

“All three of them started duct taping and then started twining my legs up and my hand,” Bennett said, complaining of a thumb injury that he claimed lasted for “months and months.”

“They hit me a few times on the way in while they were trying to subdue me.”

He testified that he didn’t fight back because he was afraid those who tied him up would grow “more violent.” [/b][/i]

Now we all know that Toronto is a bit squirrelish anyhow but still, they do tend to be trendsetters for legal silliness across the nation.

Only if you advocate it silly that people are tied up, hit and duct taped. I would think one sees that as ...oh I dont know, how ab out criminal behaviour?

Similar cases have happened before. There was one a few years ago about a jewelry store owner in Cambridge, Ontario. He had been robbed so many times that he could no longer get business insurance, at any price! So he fired a shotgun loaded with rocksalt at a robber. He deliberately fired too low, hoping to scare the perp. Unfortunately for the store owner, some of the rocksalt pellets richocetted up and hit the perp in the leg. The store owner was also charged and it was pointed out in some newspaper reports that he faced more severe penalties for a few grains of rock salt than did the robber for stealing jewelry!

BS.

He refused to put in the proper surveillance system is why he was denied insurance. Not to mention he wanted insurance to be his little payout system, so he was justly denied.

And firing a gun the way he did is criminal.

As usual, most Canadians are blissfully unaware ....

...about the justice system. I agree.

Edited by guyser
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If you are so sure a helicopter was available....please find the source that says exactly that, that semaru could have and didn't.

Why? I'm quite certain Canadian troops are only allowed out in the field in Afghanistan with the knowledge that the means to be quickly evacuated in the event of a major injury to one of their own can be facilitated. You're a clever enough fellow, why aren't you able to make this small leap in deductive reasoning? Semrau could and should have called on the same resources that would have been reserved for him. If he did I'm quite certain evidence of that call will be available, so go find it.

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Why? I'm quite certain Canadian troops are only allowed out in the field in Afghanistan with the knowledge that the means to be quickly evacuated in the event of a major injury to one of their own can be facilitated. You're a clever enough fellow, why aren't you able to make this small leap in deductive reasoning? Semrau could and should have called on the same resources that would have been reserved for him. If he did I'm quite certain evidence of that call will be available, so go find it.

Quite certain are....no shortage of helicopters....one for everyone. No one ever dies for lack of helicopters..no one ever dies even though they are evacuated..

You really want to go down that rabbit hole?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/1524059/Helicopter-shortage-puts-our-troops-at-risk-what-Charles-told-MoD-six-months-ago.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/31/rupert-thorneloe-helicopter-shortage-afghanistan

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/6538896/Afghanistan-helicopter-shortage-government-to-buy-30-Chinooks.html

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/u-s-faces-helicopter-shortage-in-afghanistan/19389940

Honestly I'm suprised you are demanding that all wounded be immediately beamed straight to the medical bay...

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I'm quite certain Canadian troops are only allowed out in the field in Afghanistan with the knowledge that the means to be quickly evacuated in the event of a major injury to one of their own can be facilitated.

So certain are you you will not attempt to provide any proof of this certainty?

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that's crazy, if the police are seeking a known serial killer and I apprehend that killer before he can kill again now suddenly I'm a criminal? laws aren't well thought out...

That depends how you apprehend him. Laws are quite well thought out.

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Is that how you view the Canadian Armed Forces?

I view them as society's misfits - programmed to kill on command and thoughtlessly following other misfits into delusional battle. I mean most the exercises revolve around how you can take advantage of and kill the enemy most efficiently without high casualties. They are trained to shoot to kill, aim to cause the most damage, and to not think of the consequences.

If you want proof that my point of view has merit, just visit the Royal Military College in Kingston to watch any sporting event. Not only do the players - who are training to become officers - act like a bunch of meat heads, but their fans in the stands make Bozo the Clown look likehe has potential as a Colonel. Plus with all the disgrace that has been taking place - murders, the harbouring of rapists and sadists, the child molesters and wife beaters (and these are only been reported out of Trenton in the last year) - Canada's military is a joke, and an international embarrassment.

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Honestly I'm suprised you are demanding that all wounded be immediately beamed straight to the medical bay...

I'm not, I'm simply saying some effort should have been made to evacuate the wounded insurgent to a hospital. I'm not aware of any attempt having been made to do this. It stands to reason that if Semrau had attempted to get a helicopter and there weren't any available these facts would have been made known and they would have been central to his defence.

This is somewhat similar to the way police who Tasered Robert Dziekanski did absolutely nothing to intervene in his subsequent death. They could have they should have but they didn't and everybody knows it.

Your claim about a shortage of helicopters just doesn't stand up. Recall that it was you who pointed out that the insurgent had hours to live.

"They commonly get there well within 60 minutes - but I would emphasise that care begins when they get there not when they get them back."

http://helmandblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/surgeon-general-outlines-medical.html

Medical evacuation helicopters ensure that wounded soldiers reach a hospital within an hour’s time, resulting in the highest survival rate in history.

http://www.offiziere.ch/?p=2181

Speeding medical evacuations to help wounded soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/17/AR2010051701723.html

Edited by eyeball
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It stands to reason that if Semrau had attempted to get a helicopter and there weren't any available these facts would have been made known and they would have been central to his defence.

If he knew there was no medivac available, he would not have made a vain request. In any case, your effort to smear him is flaccid.

Your claim about a shortage of helicopters just doesn't stand up. Recall that it was you who pointed out that the insurgent had hours to live.

http://helmandblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/surgeon-general-outlines-medical.html

Not only are we not americans, we are not in Helmond and this did not happen in 2010..earth to Eyeball!!!

http://www.offiziere.ch/?p=2181

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/17/AR2010051701723.html

sURE NUFF...those current situations trump old events...

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I'm not, I'm simply saying some effort should have been made to evacuate the wounded insurgent to a hospital. I'm not aware of any attempt having been made to do this. It stands to reason that if Semrau had attempted to get a helicopter and there weren't any available these facts would have been made known and they would have been central to his defence.

Your claim about a shortage of helicopters just doesn't stand up. Recall that it was you who pointed out that the insurgent had hours to live.

good points...then there is the issue of equal treatment of prisoners what if the Taliban capture one of our wounded...what we will we say when they execute that prisoner because he/she is wounded and they are unable to treat him, then execute him/her rather then let them suffer a slow death...

Edited by wyly
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good points...then there is the issue of equal treatment of prisoners what if the Taliban capture one of our wounded...what we will we say when they execute that prisoner because he/she is wounded and they are unable to treat him, then execute him/her rather then let them suffer a slow death...

The Taliban usually execute their prisoners one way or another, regardless of their medical state.

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