shake it!

[bud]

The Israelis treat their captives better than Gilad Shalit has been treated.

really? ever looked to see how many palestinians are held in israel without charge?

oh and LOL @ comparing this to another incident, instead of israel's supposed and self-proclaimed high standards and the whole b.s. about 'the most moral army in the world'.

[jbg]

oh and LOL @ comparing this to another incident, instead of israel's supposed and self-proclaimed high standards and the whole b.s. about 'the most moral army in the world'.

Arguing with a Jew and Israel hater is tough. It is obviousas to whether Israel or the surrounding Muslim lands have higher moral standards.

[bud]

Arguing with a Jew and Israel hater is tough. It is obviousas to whether Israel or the surrounding Muslim lands have higher moral standards.

again, any criticism of israel makes a person a jew hater. it's tough to debate with those who can't take criticism of their country.

oh and most of those surrounding countries are pretty crappy but i don't see them occupying and annexing another land and i haven't seen them attacking other people and committing war crimes.

[DogOnPorch]

#1 - whether she's a criminal or not, what this soldier did to this blindfolded woman, is not only illegal, but it's also another sign of a sick culture of the israeli military.

#2 - you don't know and i don't know why she's being held for. what we do know is that israel has a well-documented history of arresting palestinians and abusing their rights. these soldiers would never treat an israeli this way. correction; quite possible they'd hold the same disrespect and hate towards a palestinian-israeli.

I hear Jews control the media and the planet's banking systems, too.

[bud]

I hear Jews control the media and the planet's banking systems, too.

?

you're a failure.

[DogOnPorch]

?

you're a failure.

Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!

Ja, ja...

, Jude-Jager. Edited October 15, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[dre]

Arguing with a Jew and Israel hater is tough. It is obviousas to whether Israel or the surrounding Muslim lands have higher moral standards.

Youd have more luck finding a Burger King on the moon than finding moral standards over in that pathetic wasteland of dirt. And that goes for both sides.

Nobody is as embarassing to the human race as Israelis and Palestinians. The ones in charge at least anyhow.

Edited October 15, 2010 by dre

[jbg]

again, any criticism of israel makes a person a jew hater. it's tough to debate with those who can't take criticism of their country.

My country is the United States. I'm an American.

oh and most of those surrounding countries are pretty crappy but i don't see them occupying and annexing another land and i haven't seen them attacking other people and committing war crimes.

1948, 1956, 1967, 1973 and then the repeated attacks, first called "guerilla", then "terrorist", then "suicide"?

[Argus]

There are a handful of countries--Israel is one of them--who are to be held, so I understand, to far lower standards than official enemies are to be held.

Get with the program, Dre.

There is actually only one country which is to be held to a far higher standard than all other countries in its region, or for that matter, on its continent, and that's Israel.

[Argus]

It has nothing to do with Israel per se. It's that defenders of Israel, exactly like defenders of the US and Canada (if anything, moreso with the latter two),

BS. I hold Israel to the same standards as everyone else. The difference is I underestand that there are logical contexts which forbid the possibility of them matching the behaviour, in all cases, of a peaceful western democratic state which has few enemies.

Most of Israel's detractors care nothing about human rights anyway. They certainly never complain about the far more egregious violations of human rights on the part of those for whom they are advocates - such as the Palestinians, Lebanese or Iranians.

[Argus]

9/11 was a consequence, pretty much.

A consequence of not accepting Allah into our lives and murdering all the Jews, as all good Muslims are supposed to do.

You want to change that, right?

[bloodyminded]

BS. I hold Israel to the same standards as everyone else. The difference is I underestand that there are logical contexts which forbid the possibility of them matching the behaviour, in all cases, of a peaceful western democratic state which has few enemies.

But this stance insists upon promiscuous generalizations in terms of support of behaviour: because Israel is in the position it's in, all it's behaviour is therefore justified.

That's not a sober world-view; it's an insistence upon an overly-credulous worldview. Each action, every single behaviour, must be weighed on its own merits.

Otherwise, we're back to the old "Cold War" response to justify every US action--uttering the talismanic phrase as blanket justification, even when it's a square peg in a round hole.

Like I said, these are exceedingly low standards of behaviour. Well, no standards, actually, since all is prima facie justified.

Edited October 15, 2010 by bloodyminded

[bush_cheney2004]

...Like I said, these are exceedingly low standards of behaviour. Well, no standards, actually, since all is prima facie justified.

Well...DUH! It has taken you this long to figure that much out?

[bloodyminded]

Well...DUH! It has taken you this long to figure that much out?

Nope. Only trying to educate the more credulous-to-power among us.

[naomiglover]

Nobody is as embarassing to the human race as Israelis and Palestinians. The ones in charge at least anyhow.

Issuing a 50/50 blame game may seem like the right thing to do to distance yourself from being considered biased, but sometimes it's okay to be biased towards the truth. The truth is that the ball is in Israel's court and they're the ones who can change the course of this conflict by following international law. There is nothing wrong with being brutally honest and saying that, in this day and age, everything else happening is a reaction (accessory) to Israel's behaviour towards the Palestinians and their rights.

[bush_cheney2004]

....The truth is that the ball is in Israel's court and they're the ones who can change the course of this conflict by following international law....

So the Palestinians are not required to "follow international law"?

[Argus]

But this stance insists upon promiscuous generalizations in terms of support of behaviour: because Israel is in the position it's in, all it's behaviour is therefore justified.

I've never said ALL its behaviour is justified. I've said I understand the contexts in which some of it happens. I understand the hatreds and what's driving them. I understand the safety/defense reasons behind things which we would not do here in the safe West.

And in the end, all of it would be unnecessary and almost certainly eliminated were it not for the hatred and intransigence of the nations surrounding them. Because make no mistake, the Palestinians are merely the most obvious, most visible symptom of a far bigger problem. If the nations around Israel would abandon their hostility most of the issues would fade away.

[Argus]

Issuing a 50/50 blame game may seem like the right thing to do to distance yourself from being considered biased, but sometimes it's okay to be biased towards the truth. The truth is that the ball is in Israel's court and they're the ones who can change the course of this conflict by following international law.

So if I get a law passed saying all Jews should kill themselves then it would be their own fault if they didn't follow it, right? Then I'd be morally justified in taking action against them for being lawbreakers.

[jbg]

So if I get a law passed saying all Jews should kill themselves then it would be their own fault if they didn't follow it, right? Then I'd be morally justified in taking action against them for being lawbreakers.

All that some posters are capable of is anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish SPAM.

[scribblet]

That's torture, people beheaded should be so lucky.

It was a woman according to Haaretz and the big difference here is that Israel does not condone it, the IDF's internal investigation department has ordered an immediate probe into the matter.

[GostHacked]

So the Palestinians are not required to "follow international law"?

They'd need a nation first right?

[jbg]

They'd need a nation first right?

So you're saying that if I decide that the Nation of Calgary isn't legitimately its own state that I can run around beheading non-combatants in Toronto and it would be O.K.?

[bush_cheney2004]

So you're saying that if I decide that the Nation of Calgary isn't legitimately its own state that I can run around beheading non-combatants in Toronto and it would be O.K.?

That's pretty much what he implies....suicide bombings, beheadings, kidnappings, Olympic murders...all perfectly OK because "international law" would not apply. How convenient.

[jbg]

That's pretty much what he implies....suicide bombings, beheadings, kidnappings, Olympic murders...all perfectly OK because "international law" would not apply. How convenient.

That means that the forces of civilization have to fight the barbarians with two hands tied behind their backs?

[bud]

So if I get a law passed saying all Jews should kill themselves then it would be their own fault if they didn't follow it, right? Then I'd be morally justified in taking action against them for being lawbreakers.

don't be ridiculous. following the 1967 border has nothing to do with israel's security.