Toronto Municipal Elections 2010

[Shady]

If this is his first chance to get a close look at the budget, then it should be asked what the fuck he was doing for the past decade when he sat on city council.

I'm sure he's looked at the budget. But often times there is a signficant discrepancy between that you think is the budget, and what the actual budget is in reality. One can look at the election of Mike Harris and of Dalton McGuinty. Both faced far different budget scenarios then they had thought was reality during their campaigns. In both instances the budget deficits were considerably higher.

Get over the election. It's over and you lost.

[Black Dog]

I'm sure he's looked at the budget. But often times there is a signficant discrepancy between that you think is the budget, and what the actual budget is in reality. One can look at the election of Mike Harris and of Dalton McGuinty. Both faced far different budget scenarios then they had thought was reality during their campaigns. In both instances the budget deficits were considerably higher.

Hmm. Not being able to see the "real" budget didn't stop Ford from making some pretty detailed claims about how he'd fix it. I mean, he guaranteed services would not be cut. Guaranteed! Surely he wouldn't risk his political capital and credibility making such unequivocable statements if he hadn't seen the budget?

Of course there's the other option: when he promises there's enough savings and cuts to imporve services and run a surplus without cutting services, he's talking out his ass.

Get over the election. It's over and you lost.

I didn't know I was running. In any case, I don't understand why I should "get over" something that has serious implications to the city I'll be living in for at least the next five years anymore than I can understand your triumphalism over an event that affects you not at all.

[Shady]

Hmm. Not being able to see the "real" budget didn't stop Ford from making some pretty detailed claims about how he'd fix it.

That's pretty much true of most campaigns. Again, see Harris or McGuinty.

I didn't know I was running. In any case, I don't understand why I should "get over" something that has serious implications to the city I'll be living in for at least the next five years anymore than I can understand your triumphalism over an event that affects you not at all.

That's not true. I'm looking for jobs in the Toronto area, and I'd prefer it if the city didn't go bankrupt. And preferably, I'd appreciate it if they weren't hostile to business.

[Black Dog]

That's pretty much true of most campaigns. Again, see Harris or McGuinty.

Here's a question, then: what do you think will be different about the budget at the end of this fiscal cycle than the budget projections Ford has (presumably) had a chance to examine in detail? Bigger defecit? Smaller?

Another thing: it would have been easy enough for Ford to make his predictions for cuts based on what he saw in the budget projections (again, assuming he looked at them). However, roughly $1B of his proposed $2.8B reduction in the city budget over the next four years is unaccounted for. That's not exactly a small oversight.

That's not true. I'm looking for jobs in the Toronto area, and I'd prefer it if the city didn't go bankrupt. And preferably, I'd appreciate it if they weren't hostile to business.

Assuming those are possible outcomes, what makes you think Ford will change that. Seriously: I've been waiting for a real, detailed defence of Ford's platform for weeks now. Yet every time the subject comes up, you either run and hide or try to redirect the discussion somewhere else (usually by attacking Ford's opponents or critics).

Edited October 26, 2010 by Black Dog

[daniel]

The more idiots are allowed to vote, the more morons we get in office.

The turnout was the largest it's ever been in a long time. And guess what we will have as mayor?

[Black Dog]

Also: anyone else waiting with bated breath for mikedavid's breakdown of these election results? After all, less than 25% of Torontonians voted for Ford. Doubtless that included a large number of immigrants or persons of foreign descent. What does it meeeeeean?

[guyser]

First off, Ford aint my guy. I did not vote for him. I no more want to defend him than poke my eyes out.

Too much? How much is too much? Give me facts and figures, not personal observations.

I cant because I dont know.

Of course I could channel mikedavid and say " I have the figures and they are out there"

Those taxes (actually user fees) were implemented at a time when Toronto was facing a $400M operating shortfall. So no, things weren't just humming along before and now, with the city facing yet another cash crunch, are you telling me things will actually improve without that extra income?

The shortfall , IIRC, was attributable to increase in wages that Miller handed the unions . Again, I believe it was a shortfall made from poor management of resources, not income.

If Rob Ford comes up with a good idea as mayor, it will be the first good idea he's had.

I hope he has more than a wing and a prayer. We will need it.

Edited October 26, 2010 by guyser

[Black Dog]

First off, Ford aint my guy. I did not vote for him. I no more want to defend him than poke my eyes out.

I cant because I dont know.

Of course I could channel mikedavid and say " I have the figures and they are out there"

Then why say it at all?

The shortfall , IIRC, was attributable to increase in wages that Miller handed the unions . Again, I believe it was a shortfall made from poor management of resources, not income.

Since I'm new to T-Dot, I'm not sure what wage increases you are referring to. Not the trash man, though, because those taxes were in place pre-garbage strike. In any case, those wage increases are a sunk cost at this point: the union ain't giving that money back, so you still need to make up that loss of the revenue somewhere.

I hope he has more than a wing and a prayer. We will need it.

As I said: the best case scenario is political deadlock. God help us if Ford is able to implement his incoherent agenda.

[Black Dog]

Since I'm on a tear today, WTF is with people proclaiming this to be a "landslide" victory for Ford? According to the National Post, Ford took 47.1% of the ballots cast in the municipal election, compared with 35.6% for Smitherman and 11.7% Pantalone. Add it up and it's clear that half of the voters agreed on who they did not want for mayor.

[Michael Hardner]

Since I'm on a tear today, WTF is with people proclaiming this to be a "landslide" victory for Ford? According to the National Post, Ford took 47.1% of the ballots cast in the municipal election, compared with 35.6% for Smitherman and 11.7% Pantalone. Add it up and it's clear that half of the voters agreed on who they did not want for mayor.

It's close to a landslide, especially considering how many candidates there were. I'm ok with defining landslide as something like ... "getting 130 % of your nearest rival's count"...

[guyser]

Then why say it at all?

Over the years one can appreciate the wasteful antics of Miller et al and can damn well predict there are savings to be had. Now, perhaps not what he says will be , but still lots.

Eight years of Miller and his opening the vaults to the unions is one. The garbage strike, 6-7% wage increase....now?....banking sick days. That alone is $200M we could re-coup.

Since I'm new to T-Dot, I'm not sure what wage increases you are referring to. Not the trash man, though, because those taxes were in place pre-garbage strike. In any case, those wage increases are a sunk cost at this point: the union ain't giving that money back, so you still need to make up that loss of the revenue somewhere.

Outsource it or have the unions re=open the negotiations. They can and should be replaced with cheaper and most likely better operations than we have now.

Edited October 26, 2010 by guyser

[M.Dancer]

It's close to a landslide, especially considering how many candidates there were. I'm ok with defining landslide as something like ... "getting 130 % of your nearest rival's count"...

Yep...nearly 50% of the vote. ...the short guy with the funny accent polled in the traditional NDP vote % so we can't blame him for Smithers losing....even had he wisely bailed, Ford would have still won. I guess that is the outcome when you had a slate of candidates that all sucked eggs.

[Oleg Bach]

Came to a startling conclution this morning regarding what is left and what is right wing. It became clear that Ford defeated what are the highly organized and systemic extreme right wing..If you did not notice - the banks backed Smitherman - the papers backed Smitherman - and most people who have lucrative positions within the Toronto burecracy backed Smitherman - It really has not a lot to do with gay issues - BUT - right wing extremists need henchpersons to do the dirty work.

These types are bribed directly and indirectly and will do and say anything for a contract or pay cheque...so - as we all falsely believed that Ford was right wing it was the crimminal element of the extreme right that we were actually in conflict with - Those that debase and debauch the population in order to make it easier to control and rule.

Part of this revelation came to me while sitting in the wefare office and seeing a so-called socialist henchperson staffer - hand over close to a thousand buck - to what was clearly a drug addict - this is NOT socialism - It is the worst part of social and economic genocide generated by extremist power mongering rightist capital loving jerks.

People so mean spirited they will moblize and brain wash thousands at a time into believing they are doing noble and good work..mean while they are just duped henchpersons doing the dirty work of a few pricks who have cornered the money and social market place. Real socialism was based on Christian concepts - of putting your money into a common wealth and those in need could come and take as needed - Now all we have is corruption of the highest order where tax dollars are used to bribe bureacrats to bring harm unto society..

I remember one examination I suffered under these neo-Nazi corporate types as a young man - before they could or would eccept me into their circle they had one question for me - "are you willing to harm your fellow man in order to maintain our status quo?"

I simply could not do it so I was rejected - Now years and years later their system has become the establishment ..and it has grown to the point of creating social and economic decay - real socialism is when I donate some of my hard earned money into a cause where the whole community benefits and all survive -

When you give a good chunk of money to a drug addict who will then in turn give more power to the crimmial class - this is NOT "harm reduction" - this is NOT socialism - it is the rule of the beast .

[Michael Hardner]

Yep...nearly 50% of the vote. ...the short guy with the funny accent polled in the traditional NDP vote % so we can't blame him for Smithers losing....even had he wisely bailed, Ford would have still won. I guess that is the outcome when you had a slate of candidates that all sucked eggs.

I just keep thinking how much I rolled my eyes when I heard he was running. Still, I doubt I ever said "he won't win"... as I have learned that surprises happen from time-to-time, or all-the-time.

Now, if he's successful and people like him then I will eat something unpalatable. Not that it's impossible - he would just have to get some good strategy people, as well as some system insiders who know how to DO things.. and listen to them.

I doubt he can do many of his promises, but then again... surprises do happen. Unlike Rush Limbaugh, I do NOT wish people I didn't vote for to fail.

[M.Dancer]

Unlike Rush Limbaugh, I do NOT wish people I didn't vote for to fail.

There are only two questions for me left.

1) will he be a good mayor?

2) what does this mean for |CPC chances in toronto/GTA?

[BubberMiley]

Get over the election. It's over and you lost.

But it's the next day. You're still filling your diapers over the U.S. federal election "you" lost two years ago.

[guyser]

There are only two questions for me left.

1) will he be a good mayor?

I have grave doubts council will work w him so my answer is No.

2) what does this mean for |CPC chances in toronto/GTA?

Not much I bet.

[scribblet]

Council has changed, Bussin has gone there's new blood, it won't be all bad. One thing they won't go along with for sure is cutting the number of councillors. LOL

[nicky10013]

There are only two questions for me left.

1) will he be a good mayor?

2) what does this mean for |CPC chances in toronto/GTA?

It doesn't mean anything. How did Mel Lastman fair? Does the new Liberal mayor of Calgary spell doom for the CPC there? Will Harper lose his seat next time around? No. If anything, this may be a boon to the Liberals but even then I doubt it. The guy is a walking bafoon, he's going to be hurting the Conservative image for the next 4 years.

[M.Dancer]

It doesn't mean anything. How did Mel Lastman fair? Does the new Liberal mayor of Calgary spell doom for the CPC there? Will Harper lose his seat next time around? No. If anything, this may be a boon to the Liberals but even then I doubt it. The guy is a walking bafoon, he's going to be hurting the Conservative image for the next 4 years.

What I think it means is that a conservative fiscal message has resonated with nearly 50% of the voters who gave a hoot and got off their butts to vote. Was Mel Lastman a conservative? I think not...We do know that the trend in the GTA has been swinging conservative for a few years now, the question is, has it moved into Toronto. I would love to see a map of the wards and how they voted for mayor. I'm positive my ward went Smitherman...but I would hazard a guess Scarborough, Downsview, Etobicoke went Ford....

And I don't know enough about Calgary to comment on local politics there, other than they have local politics there.

[nicky10013]

What I think it means is that a conservative fiscal message has resonated with nearly 50% of the voters who gave a hoot and got off their butts to vote. Was Mel Lastman a conservative? I think not...

Of course he was. You can accuse him of not living up to his ideals, but then again for Conservatives that's par for the course. We'll be saying the same things in 4 years because there's no way he'll be able to live up to any of his promises. If he cuts the taxes like he's promising, he'll go down as the guy who wrecked the city budget through unwise tax cuts and being unable to actually cut anything. Toronto doesn't need the Reagan, Bush, Mulroney, Bushx2, Harper treatment. The city provides some really essentially services to be in that position.

[M.Dancer]

Of course he was. You can accuse him of not living up to his ideals, but then again for Conservatives that's par for the course. We'll be saying the same things in 4 years because there's no way he'll be able to live up to any of his promises. If he cuts the taxes like he's promising, he'll go down as the guy who wrecked the city budget through unwise tax cuts and being unable to actually cut anything. Toronto doesn't need the Reagan, Bush, Mulroney, Bushx2, Harper treatment. The city provides some really essentially services to be in that position.

Lastman has been a conservative, a liberal...he has endorsed liberls, he has endorsed conservatives.

Throughout Lastman's political career, he was generally supported by the Progressive Conservatives and Liberals, such as Norman Gardner, Mike Colle, Mike Feldman, Joe Volpe, and David Shiner. Though usually opposed by the New Democratic Party, he did cross party lines to work with left-leaning councillors Jack Layton and Olivia Chow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Lastman

Lastman defies pidgeon holing..

[nicky10013]

Lastman has been a conservative, a liberal...he has endorsed liberls, he has endorsed conservatives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Lastman

Lastman defies pidgeon holing..

And? In municipal politics a lot of people support people across party lines. A good chunk of the PC party, unthinkably, endorsed Smitherman. Doesn't make them any less Conservative.

This is all that matters

Born March 9, 1933 (1933-03-09) (age 77)

Toronto, Ontario

Nationality Canadian

Political party Ontario PC Party

Spouse(s) Marilyn Bornstein

Profession Businessman

Website City of Toronto Profile

[M.Dancer]

This is all that matters

He agreed to support Norman Gardner's bid for the Liberal nomination in Willowdale

Provincial Politics

[Black Dog]

Over the years one can appreciate the wasteful antics of Miller et al and can damn well predict there are savings to be had. Now, perhaps not what he says will be , but still lots.

Eight years of Miller and his opening the vaults to the unions is one. The garbage strike, 6-7% wage increase....now?....banking sick days. That alone is $200M we could re-coup.

Outsource it or have the unions re=open the negotiations. They can and should be replaced with cheaper and most likely better operations than we have now.

I doubt the city has the power to unilaterally re-open negotiations or break contracts already in place. Ford will have to wait for the CBAs to expire before moving against the unions.

Incidentally, I think your $200M figure is still overgenerous.

Unlike Rush Limbaugh, I do NOT wish people I didn't vote for to fail.

To me, Rob Ford's failure is the city's success, so you're damn right I'm hoping he falls on his face.