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Reagan's dead.


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The myth of the Gipper.

Ronald Reagan's biggest crimes were the bloody military actions to suppress social and political change in El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala and Afghanistan, but I'd like to deal here with the media's gushing about Reagan's supposed role in ending the cold war. In actuality, he prolonged it.

The stupidity of Ronald Reagan.

Ronald Reagan claimed that the Russian language had no word for "freedom." (The word is "svoboda"; it's quite well attested in Russian literature.) Ronald Reagan said that intercontinental ballistic missiles (not that there are any non-ballistic missiles—a corruption of language that isn't his fault) could be recalled once launched. Ronald Reagan said that he sought a "Star Wars" defense only in order to share the technology with the tyrants of the U.S.S.R. Ronald Reagan professed to be annoyed when people called it "Star Wars," even though he had ended his speech on the subject with the lame quip, "May the force be with you." Ronald Reagan used to alarm his Soviet counterparts by saying that surely they'd both unite against an invasion from Mars. Ronald Reagan used to alarm other constituencies by speaking freely about the "End Times" foreshadowed in the Bible. In the Oval Office, Ronald Reagan told Yitzhak Shamir and Simon Wiesenthal, on two separate occasions, that he himself had assisted personally at the liberation of the Nazi death camps.
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I'm not suprised that you have a bug up your bum about poor ole Ronnie Ray-Guns........he did after all halt Communism..........

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Don't go patting his corpse on the back to hard there Stoker, the USSR was not the former stronghold of power that it once was. He simply pushed hard in the right place.

Do you really think that if the Peanut farmer had of won, the United States, hell the world, would be were it is today?

Scratch that, after all, I'm sure people of your ilk would have prefered the Evil Empire to prosper.....Am I right?

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He simply pushed hard in the right place.

OK, going to do something daring here, admit an error. He pushed hard in the right place. With correct pressure. Not overwhelming Churchillian pressure and willpower, but correct pressure. And don't put down Carter, he was instrumental l in getting the Shah out of power and giving it back to the people.

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I'm not suprised that you have a bug up your bum about poor ole Ronnie Ray-Guns........he did after all halt Communism..........

Didja not read the link above? It neatly punctures teh myth that reagan ended the Cold War and Communism. In reality, his hostility and brinksmanship pronolnged it, strengthening Soviet hardliners, and delaying reforms that were already in motion in reaction to a decaying system.

But, as the saying goes, when forced to choose between the truth and the legend, your lot will always print the legend. :rolleyes:

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Pretty hilarious Lonius. If I remember right, it was you who last year on September 11 said "Happy Aniversary."

While I appreciate your wit and respect your political convictions, sometimes it seems you only beleive the things you do simply to argue. I mean, when garbage like this and the afore mentioned utterance comes out, it shows that you are not what you purport to be - giving, generous and sensitive.

Rather it displays a childish side, laced with an ample amount of vengefulness and meaness.

Whether you liked the guy or hated him, people are mourning. A fair amount of people consider the man a hero, and if nothing else was a leader who is now undergoing a state funeral and you find that funny?

I can deal with you saying that you felt that his policies were wrong and all, but to come out with this idiocy shows that you don't give a shit about anything.

Bedtime For Bonzo

Ronald Reagan Forgets To Breathe.

His greatest acting role? Pretending to be the President of the USA. George Bush Sr. and his cronies did an excellent job.

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Dear KK,

While I sometimes do show insensitivity, it is a detached pragmatism rather than

vengefulness and meaness
. In my opinion, anyone who would consider him a hero is a fool.

I mourn his loss, to a certain degree, out of empathy with the sufferers of Alzheimers(as my father is in his last bit of time with stroke-induced dementia), but certainly not for his career.

However, that being said, I have a strange relationship with 'The Reaper'. He makes me giggle. Life is but a fleeting glimpse of reality, however skewed by one's own place in it, and the short time we are 'given' is not meted out on merit.

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Maybe you don't get it. People do not have to love somebody or worship them to have respect. I don't see the humor Lonius. A head of state is dead, a representative of the people whether you liked him or not. If being PM or President is a position where upon death and during a nation's mourning, gets no respect from yourself, I question your scincerity in other things. After all, did you not contend forever and a day on this forum that the US only worships money? Here they have a state funeral, honoring one of their presidents and you make fun of him, then call those who did have respect for him 'idiots.'

As for the previous time you did something like this, you honored those who lost loved ones in 911 with the words 'Happy Aniversary.' Then went into a post about how the US sponsored Pinochet and all. I think a little more sensitivity would have been in order there, but seems that you are sesitive only when it is bashing the US, even using things that they honor as weapons in you snitiness. Can you think of a better way to tells us that the US sponsored terror at various times other than to tie it to rememberence of loved ones? 'Happy Aniversary' indeed. After posting with you for this time, this surprises me, I had thought that 911 remark was only a fluke. Now I see that it is deeply imbedded. Yes, vindictive and mean. I will add petty to that as well. The US stops worshiping money for a week or so and you make fun of it. Funny guy.

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Dear KK,

I think you misunderstand. I had heard that Reagan had died. Came up with the 'jokes' that very day. I saw nothing of the 'nation in mourning' bit as I do not watch television and rarely follow American news. In fact, I read about the funeral on the BBC site.

As to those that respected him as president, my comments were a reply to your statement

A fair amount of people consider the man a hero,

He was by no means 'a president', rather merely a marionette controlled by those very forces I so vehemently oppose. He was 'The President That Never Was' if you read enough about the history. George H.W. Bush, former CIA director was his VP. Bill Casey, the next CIA director (and also known as 'the spookiest of all spooks') was his campaign manager. The key to his election? The failed (and some say sabotaged) rescue of the hostages in Iran by Pres. Carter.

Instead of rescued hostages and a Carter election victory, arms were sold to Iran in exchange for the release of the hostages and the arms money used to fund CIA operations in Central America.

Do I think Mr. Reagan could have thought all this out by himself? Never. His defense in court was "I don't remember". No wonder, as he was probably never privy to a lot.

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It's funny....I remember when Breshnev died. The jokes were on the TV and radio immediately. Same when Khomeni kicked off. Andropov too. Trudeau certainly wasn't immune from criticism because he died. I'm sure that when Castro dies, or Gorbi, or Lech Walesa, or Brian Mulroney, the jokes and criticisms will be flying.

These men are all contemporaries of Reagan. All were heads of state. All were heros to their people to at least some extent.

Considering the many reprehensible things that Reagan did during his career, the fact that many many of us feel that he earned nothing but our derision, why shouldn't we offer criticisms and jokes at his expense?

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I don't remember a lot of Trudeau jokes when he passed on. I remember a former PM died and they had a state funeral. remembered that I shook his hand twice when I was a teenager in Ottawa. I remembered that I was against much of what he stood for but also remembered that he was my PM for over a decade as I was Canadian. Never voted for him, but, he was my PM. We can't all get what we want, much like this upcomming election. There are going to be those that win and those that lose. By going to the polls we, at least become free for a fleeting moment. We try to inflict our vision of what we think this country should be. If we fail, does that mean we are banished from participating until the next election? Does that mean that whomever becomes PM is not our PM?

There was a president in the USA between 1980 and '88. I'm sure that you remember as you love to make jokes about him but like a child cannot do so without saying something stupid. I, like you, do not feel that this man was a Churchill or Lincoln but he was a President. He stared down the Soviet Union and refused to conceede with them during negotiations. They came back because of him, complete with acepting the concessions. As for the rest of the 'idiots' out there, allow me to show you a few who disagree with you on his accomplishments.

Gorbachev, who was permitted inside the velvet ropes surrounding the bier, placed his hand on the American flag covering the casket and nodded toward the body of the man who had called the Soviet Union the "evil empire" before he forged a series of agreements with Gorbachev.
"I will remember him fondly. He was a great president, an engaging and original person" lamented Mikhail Gorbachev, Former Soviet Premier                 

Regan mourned in former Soviet Union

I deem Ronald Reagan a great president, with whom the Soviet leadership was able to launch a very difficult but important dialogue," Gorbachev said earlier Sunday on Ekho Moskvy radio, Interfax reported.

Gorbachev was quoted as calling Reagan "a statesman who, despite all disagreements that existed between our countries at the time, displayed foresight and determination to meet our proposals halfway and change our relations for the better."

Gorbachev listed Reagan's accomplishments as helping to "stop the nuclear race, start scrapping nuclear weapons, and arrange normal relations between our countries."

"I do not know how other statesmen would have acted at that moment, because the situation was too difficult. Reagan, whom many considered extremely rightist, dared to make these steps, and this is his most important deed," he was quoted as saying.

Yelena Bonner, the widow of Soviet dissident Nobel Peace Prize winner Andrei Sakharov, praised Reagan for his tough course toward the Soviet Union.

"I consider Ronald Reagan one of the greatest U.S. presidents since the World War II because of his staunch resistance to communism and his efforts to defend human rights," Bonner said in a telephone interview from her home in Boston. "Reagan's policy was consistent and precise, and he had a great talent of choosing the right people for his administration." Former Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovsky, 61, remembered Reagan fondly for his humor and his toughness. "His phrase, 'evil empire,' became a household word in Russia," said Bukovsky, who now lives in Cambridge, England. "Russians like a straightforward person, be he enemy or friend. They despise a wishy-washy person."

And here is a link to a picture of Gorbachev, his hand on the US flag which is drapped over Regan's coffin.

Only Idiots Approved of Regan

As for your jokes, Lonius, this is the first time I have ever read a joke by you so stop trying to come off like this is a regular occurence. You have wit yes, but jokes? Uh uh. This was done to be ignorent and displays nothing but irrational hatred of a dead person that was a former head of state of a country to which you have continually shown verbal hatred for in pretty much every post of yours on this forum.

I don't ask anybody to beleive that he was great, good or a 'marronette.' Just acknowlege that the guy was a president without immature snitty garbage accompanying whatever comments you can't wait to print out to take advantage of a percieved love of him from the right in Canada..

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I don't remember a lot of Trudeau jokes when he passed on.

The call in shows that day were certainly not short of people expressing a certain amount of hatred for Trudeau. I watched Trudeau's eulogy in a bar...people were booing.

That was all accepted because the man was very controversial. Reagan was controversial too, especially claims that he ended the Cold War, so why are we not supposed to speak out against his aims and policies? Aims and policies that are still making the world a worse, more dangerous, place today?

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Let's remember that the left wingers here probably are the same people that sympathized with the communists in China during the cultural revolution, and the communist's in Cuba and the Soviet Union. I think that Reagan is worth more respect simply because he was a good president, and did what was best for the country during his time.

http://www.theamericancause.org/patreagann...onservative.htm

Pierre Trudeau is a different story, he had a huge disgust with those going to fight in world war 2, claiming that they were simply going to die for British Imperial Conquests. He also said that Canada was as bad as nazi germany while at university. Trudeau also sympathized with communists in China, even while millions were being killed. Canada was also a very anti-communist nation before Trudeau came in. When Trudeau was PM he raped our military, brought up a huge debt, alienated the west, and destroyed thousands of jobs in Alberta, and also cheated on his wife. I don't really find Pierre Trudeau somebody to be proud of.

I think that the left tends to associate themselves more with the communists in the cold war than with the democracts such as Reagan, and Thatcher, who helped bring an end to communism.

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No, anybody that thinks the US is the evilest power in the world, did'nt think that the USSR was that "bad, and people that are to the radical left wing of Svend Robinson and Bev Meslo are considered left wing socialists.

According to some of the postings of the left on this forum they say "happy anniversary" on Sept 11, and rejoice whenever they hear the name of Pierre Trudeau, then are disgusted by anybody right of center.

You can't argue with those positions since they are true, you also are a left winger people who think that America was as evil as the USSR is'nt really that supportive of democracy.

www.ndpsocialists.ca, they offer trips to Cuba to view the socialist paradise Castro has created, and I can only assume that you are in that group since you share the same opinions as them.

They also call the war on crime and drugs a "right wing agenda"

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No, anybody that thinks the US is the evilest power in the world, did'nt think that the USSR was that "bad, and people that are to the radical left wing of Svend Robinson and Bev Meslo are considered left wing socialists.

Since it seems you are in dire need of an education, let me help you out

Definition of democratic socialism.

of Social Democrats

of communism.

of liberalism.

www.ndpsocialists.ca, they offer trips to Cuba to view the socialist paradise Castro has created, and I can only assume that you are in that group since you share the same opinions as them.

Assumptions based on sheer ignorance tend to be dead wrong. This is no exception.

The NDP Socialist caucus is but one of many independent organizations that operate under the broad umbrella of the NDP. Others include the Women's Caucus, Aboriginal Caucus, Environment Caucus, Labour Caucus, and the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgendered Caucus.

I support the NDP, but am not a communist hippie gay, lesbian, transgendered, bisexual aboriginal woman.

They also call the war on crime and drugs a "right wing agenda"

Here's a little hint, kid: any time you see the words "war on something or other" its usually a right-wing agenda at work. The war on drugs was a Reagan (right-wing) initiative. The war on terror is a Bush (right-wing) initiative. Right wingers, it seems, like to wage war on things (even concepts). Social democrats prefer finding solutions.

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Ah, Alliance...you are the reason why so many conservatives will not support Stephen Harper.

I'm sure some people were happy that 9-11 happened. I am not one of them. I sent an e-mail out that day telling people to give blood, not just for the 9-11 victims because I saw those towers fall and knew nobody was walking away, but for those caught in the shit-rain that was sure to follow.

I also told them to consider why things had happened. Those on the radical right are still refusing to do that. They have this notion that the US and the rest of the west are somehow blameless. They are wrong.

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Dear daniel,

QUOTE (Alliance Fanatic @ Jun 18 2004, 10:35 AM)

According to some of the postings of the left on this forum they say "happy anniversary" on Sept 11...

Can you prove it?

No proof required, it was me. It was a bit of a mistake on my part, I was merely trying to draw attention to another tragedy that happened also on that date. The thread has since been removed by the administrator.
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