White House first argues against, then argues mandatory HC is a tax

[moderateamericain]

Your fault for not reading in context.

Correct but hard to follow when Pronouns are used such as His and he. I assumed you were speaking on Obama. Glad to clear that up then, I was hoping nobody was that mentally deficient!

[bloodyminded]

Correct but hard to follow when Pronouns are used such as His and he. I assumed you were speaking on Obama. Glad to clear that up then, I was hoping nobody was that mentally deficient!

Understood, a perfectly honest mistake.

Aside from that, don't underestimate my mental deficiencies.

[GostHacked]

Because anyone who looks at Universal health care logically would not need feelings to determine that its wrong on a level we have never had to deal with in the united states before.

Seems to work fine in other countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

Universal Health Insurance legislation (The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA)(Pub. L. No. 111-148) as amended by the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010) provides for federally mandated health insurance to be implemented in the United States during the 2010-2019 decade with the Federal government subsidizing all peoples with income up to 400% of FPL.[24] Starting June 2010 adults with pre-existing conditions will be eligible to join a temporary high-risk pool.[25] However, universal health insurance is not the same as universal health care. Health care continues to be denied to those who are uninsured in many areas of the U.S, although with the start of the health care bill's effect, the majority of those denied will be illegal immigrants.

The Congressional Budget Office and related government agencies scored the cost of a universal health care system several times since 1991, and have uniformly predicted cost savings,[26] probably because of the 40% cost savings associated with universal preventative care[27] and elimination of insurance company overhead costs

Universal health insurance for everyone. Not universal health care.

[bush_cheney2004]

"we"?

...thank you.

[Shady]

who the hell could be against free healthcare? are you crazy?

I'm not the one sounding like a crazy person. You are.

There is no such thing as free healthcare. It's paid for with higher taxes, or higher fees. But that's not the issue I raised. I think it's pretty disingenious to first argue that the healthcare mandate isn't a tax, but when defending it in court, turning around and admitting that it is in fact a tax. Which the Obama administration has done. Being disingenious has nothing to do with race, or religion, etc. It has to do with politics, and policies. Stop the race-baiting already.

[ToadBrother]

Well... is mandatory health care insurance a tax or not? White House argues with itself.

Seems, I remember a campaign promise that those making $250,000 or less will not pay one thin dime more in taxes. Sounds like politics as usual. Whatever happened to "hope and change"?

Yes, it is! No, it isn't! Yes, it is! No, it isn't

I've long felt that there should be a universal law that sees any politician who tries to claim that money paid to the government isn't a tax be immediately shot. If the government gets the cash, it's a tax, pure and simple.

[Yesterday]

Thanks Pliny, this is interesting. The 'Politician Backpeddle', should be the name of a dance....intestate commerce...health care(oops I mean insurance, oops again I mean tax ).

[GostHacked]

I'm not the one sounding like a crazy person. You are.[/qupte]

Where the hell is my /facepalm smiley ... I still require that.

There is no such thing as free healthcare. It's paid for with higher taxes, or higher fees. But that's not the issue I raised. I think it's pretty disingenious to first argue that the healthcare mandate isn't a tax, but when defending it in court, turning around and admitting that it is in fact a tax. Which the Obama administration has done. Being disingenious has nothing to do with race, or religion, etc. It has to do with politics, and policies. Stop the race-baiting already.

I find it funny to complain about the US forcing a universal health care system on the people, when you and I are both Canadians with said universal health care which seems to do us just fine.

[Smallc]

I find it funny to complain about the US forcing a universal health care system on the people, when you and I are both Canadians with said universal health care which seems to do us just fine.

Oh, but Shady doesn't agree....for some reason. Shady, in general, likes the US way of doing things (and the US itself) far more.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Smallc

[Shady]

I find it funny to complain about the US forcing a universal health care system on the people, when you and I are both Canadians with said universal health care which seems to do us just fine.

Obama's health reform isn't at all like a universal system. Once again, you have your facts wrong.

[moderateamericain]

I'm not the one sounding like a crazy person. You are.

There is no such thing as free healthcare. It's paid for with higher taxes, or higher fees. But that's not the issue I raised. I think it's pretty disingenious to first argue that the healthcare mandate isn't a tax, but when defending it in court, turning around and admitting that it is in fact a tax. Which the Obama administration has done. Being disingenious has nothing to do with race, or religion, etc. It has to do with politics, and policies. Stop the race-baiting already.

Not to mention down right illegal based on the UNITED STATES constitution.

[Guest American Woman]

Not to mention down right illegal based on the UNITED STATES constitution.

I honestly don't know anyone who likes the idea of forced health insurance. I can't believe it passed Congress.

[Guest American Woman]

ame='Shady' date='18 August 2010 - 01:19 PM' timestamp='1282151988' post='571211']

I find it funny to complain about the US forcing a universal health care system on the people, when you and I are both Canadians with said universal health care which seems to do us just fine.

As shady already pointed out, it's not a universal health care system; not even close.

[dre]

I honestly don't know anyone who likes the idea of forced health insurance. I can't believe it passed Congress.

I think there was a bait and switch... initially the mandate was talked about in the context of having a public option as part of it. That would have been ok, although Id prefer real UHC. But then they pulled the public option off the table and kept the mandate... really stupid idea IMO.

[ToadBrother]

As shady already pointed out, it's not a universal health care system; not even close.

It's the best that could be done, I suppose. There are people who will never swallow a fully public system in the US, no matter what. Whether it works or not, I dunno. But I doubt the Republicans are going to try any meaningful attempt to repeal it once they control Congress again.

[ToadBrother]

I think there was a bait and switch... initially the mandate was talked about in the context of having a public option as part of it. That would have been ok, although Id prefer real UHC. But then they pulled the public option off the table and kept the mandate... really stupid idea IMO.

They pulled it because it wouldn't have passed. There were enough fence-sitting Democrats to assure that. It was either some kind of bill, or no bill at all.

Edited August 18, 2010 by ToadBrother

[GostHacked]

Obama's health reform isn't at all like a universal system. Once again, you have your facts wrong.

You and American Woman missed the part where I had quoted the article that stated it was a universal health INSURANCE, and not universal health care.

Post #28 in this thread. Please read it again. I don't expect apologies.

But what I really was trying to point out, and it's obvious some missed it, that it's hypocritical to criticize another country for wanting to implement universal anything when they have the universal anything in their own country.

[Shady]

You and American Woman missed the part where I had quoted the article that stated it was a universal health INSURANCE, and not universal health care.

Post #28 in this thread. Please read it again. I don't expect apologies.

I find it funny to complain about the US forcing a universal health care system on the people, when you and I are both Canadians with said universal health care which seems to do us just fine.

Why would we apologize? You're completely wrong. You specifically stated UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. You actually stated it twice. Not universal insurance. You said UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. Just admit that you were pantsed an we can all move on!

But what I really was trying to point out, and it's obvious some missed it, that it's hypocritical to criticize another country for wanting to implement universal anything when they have the universal anything in their own country.

Telling everyone to buy something isn't a universal system of anything. You clearly don't understand what universal health care means. As usual, you have no idea what you're talking about. Hey, I got an idea. How about a universal housing system? Wanna know how it works? Easy. Hey everybody, I'm forcing you to buy a house! There, that was easy.

[Guest American Woman]

You and American Woman missed the part where I had quoted the article that stated it was a universal health INSURANCE, and not universal health care.

You didn't refer to "universal health insurance" in the quote I was replying to. You said "universal health care system." And there's a huge difference between "health care" and "health insurance." Health care is actual care, while insurance may not get you any care at all if the deductible is too high, and there are plenty of people who can't even afford that type of 'disaster' health insurance. So this requirement to have insurance will only be another financial burden to people who already are struggling to pay for health care. There's not even a public option; the insurance companies can charge whatever they like.

Furthermore, it's not even "universal health insurance," since it's not being provided to us and therefore won't be "universal." We have to buy it. Or not. We can opt for the fine. Another expense for the people who do not have health care coverage. So it's far from a universal health care system, as you said, and the quote in the article is also incorrect.

Post #28 in this thread. Please read it again. I don't expect apologies.

I read it, and since you incorrectly referred to it as a "universal health care system," which it's not, it's good that you don't expect an apology.

But what I really was trying to point out, and it's obvious some missed it, that it's hypocritical to criticize another country for wanting to implement universal anything when they have the universal anything in their own country.

It's not a "universal anything."

[GostHacked]

American Woman and Shady.

Obviously I need to be exact and literal with you two.

[Guest American Woman]

American Woman and Shady.

Obviously I need to be exact and literal with you two.

Speaking for myself, more like you obviously need to be factual, and not make incorrect statements, and then blame me for commenting on it and pointing out that it's incorrect.

Furthermore, as I pointed out, it's not universal health insurance, either; it's not "universal anything."

[dre]

Speaking for myself, more like you obviously need to be factual, and not make incorrect statements, and then blame me for commenting on it and pointing out that it's incorrect.

Oh boy... Here was go again.

[Smallc]

Oh boy... Here was go again.

Seriously though, a system of universal insurance would be a system of universal healthcare.

[Guest American Woman]

Seriously though, a system of universal insurance would be a system of universal healthcare.

Seriously though, a system where everyone doesn't have insurance isn't a system of universal insurance; and when some people who do have insurance aren't getting the benefit of any health care from said insurance, it's not a system of universal health care even if everyone did do as they were told and purchased insurance. Which they will not.

So again. It's not a "universal anything."

Perhaps you should stick to telling us how tolerant of religious freedoms Hamas is.

[Shady]

I have an additional universal idea. How about a universal transportation system? Wanna know how it works? Easy. I force everybody to buy a car! That was easy.