Long Gun registry Fact

[PIK]

I hear what you are saying, but to play devils advocate... If I were a police officer, and I was stopping you for whatever reason, I for one would like to know that information. I'd like to have as much information as is available to ensure the safety of myself and the general public. If know that you are the owner of a shotgun or rifle then at the very least I am aware that the possibility exists that you have a weapon on you. I see no issue with it what so ever.

I'd be interested to hear the context of some of those quotes, surely they don't mean hunting rifles etc.

Officers go into a situation looking for the worse to happen, they don't need a registry to tell them to be cautious, actually it might have a reverse effect.

[Keepitsimple]

Fair enough, I agree with you for the most part. The way I see it though, it's just one more tool in the tool box.

A completely useless one. Before you can register a gun, you need a gun license......and gun license information has always been available to police. So in addition to always being cautious because the bad guys don't follow the rules, the police have always known to be extra cautious when someone has a gun license.

[geoffrey]

I hear what you are saying, but to play devils advocate... If I were a police officer, and I was stopping you for whatever reason, I for one would like to know that information. I'd like to have as much information as is available to ensure the safety of myself and the general public. If know that you are the owner of a shotgun or rifle then at the very least I am aware that the possibility exists that you have a weapon on you. I see no issue with it what so ever.

Let's be realistic. Nearly all of crime in Canada is committed with firearms outside the registry. I'd say that knowing someone has a registered firearm shows they are LESS risky a call then your average everyday folks. They are under higher scrunity and are constantly punished with bureaucracy for following the law.

Everyone else, especially those gangsters with unregistered handguns, don't have any oversight.

It's way more risky being involved with someone without registered firearms. Who knows what they have?

So the value of the registry in itself is absolutely zero.

[lukin]

I wonder how many sawed-off shotguns are registered? the gun registry forces cops to harass honest citizens.

[Handsome Rob]

I wonder how many sawed-off shotguns are registered? the gun registry forces cops to harass honest citizens.

They don't.

I never carry my registries, my guns are registered to my old address in city A, stored in my friends safe in city B, and I reside in city C. (EDIT: Oh yeah, theirs a lee-enfield in there too, registered to my brother over 5 hours away, 2 addresses old, no less.)

That's the amazing part, an actual law that could help prevent firearms thefts and potentially save lives. The government says non-restricted's must be stored behind a secure barrier, so a plastic case and padlock is sufficient. As a responsible firearms owner, I say bollocks to that, they're going in a safe, and I don't own one.

Such is the complete lack of a gun control problem in Canada, that their are many examples of owners taking more responsible care than the government mandates, but they still have to look like they're doing something.

It's rare to not see at least one unregistered gun at the range. The cops and firearms officers just don't care. For a restricted they may well intervene, and rightfully so, but for long guns it just isn't worth wasting the time.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Handsome Rob

[William Ashley]

Guns and lethal actions save a whole bunch of tax dollars and hurt. It also promotes a better equiped populas to both prevent unjust police actions, and police actions that are professional and non bs - to the point, and necisary instead of leathernecking.

I think everyone ought to have the right to bear arms. Not only in defence of their beleifs but also in defence of their fellow citizens. Uniform or not, all our values should matter not just one subculture of society.

We are all right. It is totalitarian and backward to say one minority segment of the population is more right than another. We can only hope for a rational and informed populas that doesn't resort to violence - as police often do. To resolve issues that needn't resort to violence, armed or not.

Some police have serious respect issues.

Edited July 20, 2010 by William Ashley

[Borg]

I've been doing some research on the long-gun registry. The Liberals claim that the long gun registry gets hit 9 to 11 thousand times a day. I found this to be a fact.

However, if I get pulled over for a routine traffic stop, the police officer will enter my info and the long gun registry will get a hit. That is a fact. It's amazing to me how liberals, and the media don't report the latter fact. Tom Clark, the biased liberal host of Power Play didn't seek the truth when he tried to make the CPC look follish for bill C- 391.

Old news well swept under the carpet by the media - the registry is linked to EVERY inquiry into a person or into a crime or into any criminal search.

CIPIC or whatever it is called now was the first link

Direct searches into the registry are likely under 100 per day

More people get killed by drunks and doctors in this country than guns

Even stats canada has a section - it is called "medical misadventure"

Not too many doctors get charged for those murders

Borg

[Saipan]

Going up to page 38 I counted unbelievable 120 "Harper" threads. There I gave up counting

Lefties must be weaowy frustrated.

[PIK]

Actually Topaz, many police officers are against the registry, and see it as a useless tool. police chiefs, such as the one in Toronto would would rather spend money on the registry instead of adding more officers to the force. The police officers in my community are against the registry.

Here are some interesting comments from high ranking liberals with reference to the gun registry.

"I came to Ottawa ... with the firm belief that the only people in this country who should have guns are police officers and soldiers." — Liberal minister of justice Allan Rock, 1994.

2. "C-68 has little to do with gun control or crime control, but it is the first step necessary to begin the social re-engineering of Canada. "— Liberal senator Sharon Carstairs, 1996.

3. "Canada will be one of the first unarmed countries in the world."— Liberal foreign affairs minister Lloyd Axworthy, 1998.

4. "Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda." — Liberal foreign affairs minister Lloyd Axworthy at a gun control conference, Oslo, Norway, 1998.

Well I think he is wrong on #3 was'nt germany the 1st in the 30's?

[PIK]

...

Edited January 21, 2011 by PIK

[PIK]

Going up to page 38 I counted unbelievable 120 "Harper" threads. There I gave up counting

Lefties must be weaowy frustrated.

Because harper has done a great job ,where they are now beginning to realize the 13 years chretien wasted, and the fAct harper's goverment has made some misteps, but no scandals and fairly good reports from the AG.

[madmax]

I too have talk to police officers ,who also say they hate it, the police cheifs asc, is a political tool that does what it's masters say. And when you have to lie to, sell it, then don't sell it.

I have yet to find a Police Officer in my region who wants the registry scrapped.

I recall the pro registery forces gathering some steam, then having to go silent after this incident when a Northern Reeve lost his faculties and started shooting an officer.

-----------------------------------------

A Huron OPP officer has died after being shot during a routine stop in Huron County.

Const. Vu Pham was 37-years-old. He was a 15 year veteran of the Ontario Provincial Police. He was shot when he attempted to stop a vehicle on Huron County Road 12 north of Winthrop between Sawmill Road and Canada Company Road Monday morning.

At a news conference Monday afternoon, OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino said Pham "intercepted" an individual, who is the same person who shot him.

Fantino said the suspect is around 70 years old. He is in hospital but Fantino could not elaborate on his condition.

Earlier both Pham and the suspect are officially listed as "critical" by the hospital.

"(Pham) was just doing his job," Fantino said of the routine stop.

Fantino expects the suspect to face charges, but did not give more details.

Pham previously served with the OPP at detachments in Cochrane and Perry Sound.

Saigon-born Pham was married with three children.

Stunned residents watched in horror this morning as the Huron OPP shooting shattered the rural calm here Monday.

Bonnie Glanville, who lives on the North Line, near where the dramatics unfolded, said she was getting a glass of water and looked out the window to see a truck being pulled over by the OPP and thought she was watching someone get a speeding ticket.

“I realized something wasn’t quite right when he quickly jumped out of the truck,” she said, adding that she then heard shots and saw the officer being shot a couple of hundred feet from her house.

Unconfirmed reports suggested Pham was shot in the head.

Faith Weber, of Brussels, who was driving home from work at the time, said she was flagged down by another motorist who told her not to drive any further along County Road 12 because of a shoot-out happening further down the road.

“I got out of my car and I could see an officer on the left side of the road out in the open and a shooter lying in the ditch with a rifle on the right side and they were shooting at each other,” she said.

“You could hardly see the guy in the ditch but the officer was in a clearing with no cover.”

Weber said she thought she saw the officer being hit by a bullet when he recoiled back.

“But, he kept shooting,” she said.

Neil McGavin, of Walton, was tapping trees in a nearby sugar bush when he heard shots firing near the farm of Lorne Glanville.

“There was a lot of shooting. There must have been 20 shots. Then, I heard sirens,” he said.

OPP crime units, traffic units and a mobile command unit converged on the scene to conduct the criminal investigation. Media from throughout Southwestern Ontario also gathered in the area.

Residents in the nearby hamlet of Walton were shocked.

"People just can't believe it happening in a tiny place like this," said Ann, clerk at a country store and feed depot.

Several residents gathered in groups to talk about the shooting.

"We heard (the suspect) was pulled over and got out of his truck, grabbed a gun from the back seat and opened fire," said Darrell Dalton, 28, whose brother was cutting wood nearby at the time of the shooting.

"My brother said he heard 10-15 shots."

In Seaforth, the reaction was similar.

"It's just terrible" said Ina McGrath.

"They (police) are just doing their job, protecting us.. It's just not fair. This is a real shock to me. We live pretty quiet here."

Ontario's Special Investigations Unit, the province’s police watchdog agency called in during cases of civilian injury or death involving the police, is “probing the circumstances,” surrounding the shooting.

Nine SIU investigators are working on the case, said spokesperson Monica Hudon.

Reading from a news release, Hudon said the SIU would only release the following information: "The OPP reported that at approximately 11 a.m., OPP officers became involved in a standoff with a man at 82352 North Line in Huron County. (The officer) was wounded and has been taken to Victoria Hospital (in London) for treatment."

She declined to comment on the condition of the officer. "We are investigating what led to this man's injuries."

Fantino was rushed by helicopter to the London Health Sciences Centre to be at the stricken officer's side, and is expected to also head to the shooting scene.

Mary Cardinal, administrator of Seaforth Community Hospital, said a patient from the incident was brought in mid-morning, spent an hour being stabilized and was sent to a London hospital.

Provincial police blocked off the road for most of the day during an investigation of the shooting.

--------------------------------------------

The 70-year-old man identified as the suspect in the shooting death Monday of a Huron OPP constable is a retired logger whose marriage recently fell apart, a work colleague says.

Police Tuesday identified the suspect as Fred Preston of Burk's Falls, a small community between Barrie and North Bay.

John Kerr, owner of a wood-carving business in Gravenhurst, said Tuesday the white pickup truck in a Free Press aerial photograph of the shooting scene belongs to a man named Fred Preston who makes chainsaw carvings for him. He said Preston has family in the London area.

He described Preston as a "mellow, quiet, nice guy."

He said that despite his age, Preston was a moose hunter and "tough as nails."

Preston is in critical condition in hospital with gunshot wounds after a close-range shootout took place between a man and police near Seaforth on Monday. Sources say Preston suffered "several" gunshot wounds. No charges have been laid.

Kerr said he knows Preston as "a nice, quiet guy" who married his childhood sweetheart and who split with her months ago.

"She decided she wanted to separate all of a sudden and he couldn't figure out why," Kerr said Tuesday. She moved to Gravenhurst and he moved into an apartment. "He was getting upset because he was losing stuff everywhere," Kerr said.

Nevertheless, he said, Preston's wife was with him less than two weeks ago during a carving festival in Gravenhurst.

He recalled Preston telling him about a week ago that he, Preston, needed to move a family member to London.

Kerr said Preston had previously mentioned he had a daughter or daughter-in-law "down London way." That information could not be confirmed by The Free Press.

On Tuesday, Kerr said, the wood carver's daughter-in-law phoned and asked that Kerr stop selling Preston's sculptures because Preston was in hospital in critical condition.

Kerr said Preston carved large sculptures -- including bears and horse's heads - that were all less than three metres tall because that's the largest that could fit into the bed of his white Dodge pickup. Shown a Free Press image of the crime scene, Kerr said the truck in the image belongs to Preston.

Fred Preston was also reeve of Joly Township in 2000, township chief administrative officer and clerk Gerry Whittington said Tuesday.

But Whittington wouldn't confirm if that's the same Fred Preston identified Tuesday as being from nearby Burk's Falls, between Barrie and North Bay.

Whittington said he hadn't seen Preston recently but that would not be unusual because the former reeve rarely stopped by the municipal office. He said he would only be spreading rumour if he speculated whether the former reeve would have reason to be in southern Ontario.

He didn't know Preston well, except that he was a logger who was either retired or semi-retired.

Elgin Schneider, mayor of nearby Sundridge when Preston served as reeve of Joly Township, was shocked by news of the shootout.

"If it's the same Fred Preston I know, it's totally out of character," Schneider said.

[Saipan]

I have yet to find a Police Officer in my region who wants the registry scrapped.

I have yet to find one who doesn't. Including Chief of police Fantino.

I recall the pro registery forces gathering some steam

Looks like a steam but it's just a lot of hot air.

A Huron OPP officer has died after being shot during a routine stop in Huron County.

Const. Vu Pham was 37-years-old. He was a 15 year veteran of the Ontario Provincial Police.

Being armed he was lucky to have a fair chance. Gas station attendants, store clerks etc. are not so lucky, thanks to Liberals.

[guyser]

I have yet to find one who doesn't. Including Chief of police Fantino.

You lie .

Fantino supported it, then didnt then did....either way, youve never talked to him.

Being armed he was lucky to have a fair chance. Gas station attendants, store clerks etc. are not so lucky, thanks to Liberals.

Liberals?

Hmm....have the conservatives approved open carry, concealed carry?

So they died because of conservatives then. Your brain doesnt work much does it?

[Saipan]

You lie.

You're fee to prove it.

Fantino supported it, then didnt then did.....

You've talked to him?

Evidence?

Hmm....have the conservatives approved open carry, concealed carry?

Carry what, where?

Can you explain how does "approval" of minority government gets approved?

[guyser]

You're fee to prove it.

I did

You've talked to him?

Never said I did, but his reports are all over the web where he supported the registry.

Aww....doesnt fit with your assetions does it...

Evidence?

Yes

Carry what, where?

Can you explain how does "approval" of minority government gets approved?

I sure can.

[Saipan]

Never said I did, but his reports are all over the web where he supported the registry.

Prove it.

[guyser]

Prove it.

Fine...

We register our cars, we register our marriages, we register everything else. Whats the big deal with registering a gun? (Julian Fantino, CBC Prime Time News, August 25, 1994)

Canadas police chiefs are urging the Senate to pass the Liberal governments gun control bill without delay. The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police is concerned the Conservative-dominated Senate might amend the controversial bill and send it back to the House of Commons. The bills requirement to register all firearms, including rifles and shotguns, has angered many rural gun owners and natives who say the measure wont reduce crime. But a police chief from London, Ont., told the association meeting in Regina on Tuesday that mandatory registration of all firearms will prevent crimes and make police work easier. A very obvious concern to us in policing is that I want my police officers to know where there are firearms when they respond to calls, especially those that very often entail dangerous situations, Julian Fantino said. (Canadian Press, August 22, 1995)

You still lie every chance you get.

Now register your gun(s) and stop your fucking whining. Jesus you babies are pathetic.

Edited January 21, 2011 by guyser

[guyser]

crickets......

[Saipan]

Fine...

“We register our cars, we register our marriages, we register everything else. What’s the big deal with registering a gun? (Julian Fantino, CBC Prime Time News, August 25, 1994)

That was Chretien, not Fantino.

But a police chief from London, Ont., told the association meeting in Regina on Tuesday that mandatory registration of all firearms will prevent crimes and make police work easier.

How?

A very obvious concern to us in policing is that I want my police officers to know where there are firearms

1) LEGAL firearms are in homes of those who have firearm licence (PAL)

2) Criminals don't register anything.

3) How did 75 year old handgun registration help?

Now register your gun(s)

WHY? Guns are mounted on the deck of a ship.

Handguns are registered 75 years

[guyser]

That was Chretien, not Fantino.

Yes, it was Jean, spelled F A N T I N O..........

How?

Ask Fantino, he said it you f'ing moron.

1) LEGAL firearms are in homes of those who have firearm licence (PAL)

2) Criminals don't register anything.

3) How did 75 year old handgun registration help?

WHY? Guns are mounted on the deck of a ship.

Handguns are registered 75 years

Blah blah blah, you dummy Fantino said them , ask him.

Does your mother tie your shoes in the morning?

[Saipan]

1) LEGAL firearms are in homes of those who have firearm licence (PAL)

2) Criminals don't register anything.

3) How did 75 year old handgun registration help?

Handguns are registered for 75 years. Did it work???

[Saipan]

SASKATCHEWAN RCMP OFFICER (Name withheld by Garry Breitkreuz, MP)

I am a peace officer with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and am currently posted to the xxxxxxxxxx Detachment. One of my current responsibilities is to train new cadets that have recently graduated from Depot Division by furthering their "hands on" training in the field. I am very concerned about this new Bill regarding firearms registration. I am concerned that if it is not passed in the House that more Mounties may face the same fate as the two young men did within this last month. This firearms registration must be abolished once and for all! I find that I have to deprogram every cadet that I train when it comes to CFRO checks and their reliability in regards to officer safety.

One dark evening, myself and a newly graduated cadet had to visit a residence of someone suspected of a violent crime. The cadet told me, rather proudly, that they had conducted a CFRO check on the house and that it showed that there were no firearms present, so we would not have to worry. I scolded his ignorance and naivety. I told him to stop and think about that for a moment. I said, "Do you honestly think that someone who is already living a criminal lifestyle and is in possession of firearms has any intention of registering them?" I told him to never place any faith in the registry and most of all, never trust that notion that just because nothing is registered to an individual then an officer's safety is insured. Conversely also, do not ever believe that just because someone has a firearm registered that they will never use it in the commission of an offence! It does not matter if a gun is registered, if someone is bent on crime they will use a registered or non-registered gun. If no gun is available, they will use something else.

In my evaluation, the registry only causes more criminal code infractions (before the amnesty) as police query law abiding citizens' guns to see if they are registered only to find out that they may not be - in spite of the claims that the owner did in fact attempt to register them; or the information on the registration certificate is incorrect, etc. making the gun owner appear negligent.

The gun registry places police officers' lives at risk. The gun registry offers a false sense of security. The gun registry is making criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens. The gun registry is eating up resources that the RCMP and every other municipal or first nation force desperately need. The gun registry consumes valuable time for the average police officer on the street who has real crime to fight. Saying that the guns are the problem in this society is like saying pens are the cause of spelling errors, or that cars are the cause of drunk driving, or like saying fast food restaurants are the cause of obesity.

When will common sense prevail? People need to be held accountable for their actions - whether with firearms, alcohol, vehicles, etc. That is what the Conservatives did with the Liberals when in opposition and then on a larger scale once elected.

The gun registry brings justice into disrepute. It is an absolute waste of taxpayers money. The registry does nothing to fight the crime issues in this country. Please do everything possible to make sure that this Bill passes.

SOURCE: Personal E-Mail to Garry Breitkreuz, MP dated November 17, 2007.

[kimmy]

One dark evening, myself and a newly graduated cadet had to visit a residence of someone suspected of a violent crime. The cadet told me, rather proudly, that they had conducted a CFRO check on the house and that it showed that there were no firearms present, so we would not have to worry. I scolded his ignorance and naivety. I told him to stop and think about that for a moment. I said, "Do you honestly think that someone who is already living a criminal lifestyle and is in possession of firearms has any intention of registering them?"

This is the one that always gets me. "The Registry helps keep police officers safe!" How? If they check the registry and it says the house they're about to enter has registered guns, the officers know they need to be careful. Oh, ok. So if the registry reports no registered firearms, what does that mean? It means that there might be unregistered firearms in the place, so they still need to be extra careful. Great tool there.

One thing I do know, is that if you as a private citizen register your firearm,you're inviting the cops to treat you as an adversary when they arrive at your home.

I'm not a gun owner, but if I was, I would think twice about registering it. I wouldn't want the police to yell at me and hold me at gunpoint until they've cleared out my gun cabinet before they get around to explaining that they're there because one of the neighbors complained about where I parked.

-k

[bloodyminded]

I'm not a gun owner, but if I was, I would think twice about registering it. I wouldn't want the police to yell at me and hold me at gunpoint until they've cleared out my gun cabinet before they get around to explaining that they're there because one of the neighbors complained about where I parked.

-k

I'm not a gun owner either, and don't plan to be (I report this only to feebly suggest I have no real personal dog in this race); and I wouldn't think twice. I wouldn't register.