The New Black Panthers/Voter Intimidation

[lukin]

Sure, we don't meausre such things by numbers or by organizational acumen.

We use a youtube video to come to the proper, sober conclusions.

If Sarah Palin runs in 2012, and 2 of those so-called tea party thugs are outside a polling station with crowbars intimidating black voters........would it make NBC, ABC, CBS, and CNN news?

[bloodyminded]

If Sarah Palin runs in 2012, and 2 of those so-called tea party thugs are outside a polling station with crowbars intimidating black voters........would it make NBC, ABC, CBS, and CNN news?

Of course...it would be in context of a large, self-titled political movement, working on behalf of a national political figure.

you don't consider that a bit different from some idiot ranting on the street and being ignored by everyone...including the African-americans he's berating?

Why can't you understand the difference? It's monumental, night and day.

[lukin]

Of course...it would be in context of a large, self-titled political movement, working on behalf of a national political figure.

you don't consider that a bit different from some idiot ranting on the street and being ignored by everyone...including the African-americans he's berating?

Why can't you understand the difference? It's monumental, night and day.

They were outside a polling station with weapons in their hands. Did you not see that? Wake up.

[sharkman]

Well, the Right certainly lacks the intelligence or ability to demonstrate it.

I'm not talking about the KKK, who are an increasingly trivial component of a much larger, younger, more savvy movement.

The very simple point is this. If someone intimidates voters, it's against the law. But you can't simply say that, you have to trivialize it and bring up things that are unconnected to this case. If whites intimidate black voters it is also wrong, plain and simple. I would say that in a thread on that topic, but people like you for some odd reason that I haven't put my finger on yet, are incapable of saying the Black Panthers should be in court for what they did.

[bloodyminded]

They were outside a polling station with weapons in their hands. Did you not see that? Wake up.

I think you need to wake up from your poor little oppressed whitey victimization mindset.

[Bonam]

Of course criminals should be prosecuted regardless of race. To imply that I'm saying otherwise is to distract from what I DID say, which I consider a little irritating.

I make a distinction about racism as an institutional phenomenon...and your response implies that I don't think the criminals should be prosecuted!

After inventing this "fact" out of whole cloth--completely and 100% divorced from anything I've said or implied--you go on to call your own caricature of my views as "racist."

Well, perhaps your caricature IS racist. Fortunately, it has nothing to do with me in any way.

Kimmy stated that had the action (voter intimidation) been carried out by white thugs instead of black ones, the media and legal response would have been different. You responded by saying that this is understandable ("sure") because of the historical context of whites oppressing blacks and not the other way around. You named this view "rational" thus expressing your support/approval for it. I pointed out that contrary to this view that you praise as rational, the legal response should be precisely identical (criminals should be prosecuted) regardless of race. I claimed that implementing a different legal response based on the race of the perpetrators, and supporting such a distinction, would be racist.

I have made no assumptions or incorrect characterizations of your viewpoint.

[bloodyminded]

The very simple point is this. If someone intimidates voters, it's against the law. But you can't simply say that, you have to trivialize it and bring up things that are unconnected to this case.

I didn't bring them up. I responded directly to someone else bringing them up.

If whites intimidate black voters it is also wrong, plain and simple. I would say that in a thread on that topic, but people like you for some odd reason that I haven't put my finger on yet, are incapable of saying the Black Panthers should be in court for what they did.

Interesting. So when I stated--clearly and unequivocally--that the criminals should be prosecuted for their crimes, you somehow read this as my being "incapable of saying" what I did in fact say.

That's puzzling.

[lictor616]

If Sarah Palin runs in 2012, and 2 of those so-called tea party thugs are outside a polling station with crowbars intimidating black voters........would it make NBC, ABC, CBS, and CNN news?

Sarah Palin isn't a tea party type candidate, Ron Paul is (and only ron paul)

[lukin]

I think you need to wake up from your poor little oppressed whitey victimization mindset.

I see by that comment that you are a racist. I don't appreciate being called "whitey". At least now I know where you're coming from.

[WIP]

I knew someone would get all over Fox News for presenting this story. This is an important story that all Americans should be aware of. That is why Fox News is necessary; they provide stories that doesn't tow the line of the MSM (NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN)agenda. Voter intimidation is wrong. WIP, do you have footage of right wing militias engaging in voter intimidation?

If you want negative stories on Blacks, Latinos, Arabs or homosexuals, tune in to FoxNoise; but if it's a negative story on the Republican Party, Israel, the rich, increasing corporate power, global warming, the Arms manufacturing industry etc. don't expect to find it at the voice of the new fascism!

Fox doesn't send their bubble-head blondes in to cover stories of Republican voter fraud: Campaigners used pot petition to dupe voters into registering as Republicans but they've been playing this piece about the two Black Panthers in Philadelphia for the last two years, just like their fraudulent attempt to destroy ACORN. If the hard right gets their wish and destroys community organizing groups like ACORN, they shouldn't be surprised if there is a resurgence in the Black Panthers.

[bloodyminded]

Sarah Palin isn't a tea party type candidate, Ron Paul is (and only ron paul)

Yes, but she's a beloved figurehead to the movement.

She Went on the "tea party tour."

She was the keynote speaker at a Tea Party convention.

[bloodyminded]

I see by that comment that you are a racist. I don't appreciate being called "whitey". At least now I know where you're coming from.

So...I'm a self-hating white person? Is that the hypothesis?

[lukin]

If you want negative stories on Blacks, Latinos, Arabs or homosexuals, tune in to FoxNoise; but if it's a negative story on the Republican Party, Israel, the rich, increasing corporate power, global warming, the Arms manufacturing industry etc. don't expect to find it at the voice of the new fascism!

Fox doesn't send their bubble-head blondes in to cover stories of Republican voter fraud: Campaigners used pot petition to dupe voters into registering as Republicans but they've been playing this piece about the two Black Panthers in Philadelphia for the last two years, just like their fraudulent attempt to destroy ACORN. If the hard right gets their wish and destroys community organizing groups like ACORN, they shouldn't be surprised if there is a resurgence in the Black Panthers.

Acorn was proven to be quite corrupt. Get the facts, then yap.

[WIP]

I would say this hate movement is equally as serious as the white supremacist hate movement.

Bullcrap! Just because Obama is President, that doesn't mean Blacks have control of government in the U.S. White racists who want to keep Blacks marginalized, still have too many political and economic levers to wield to make a fair comparison.

[sharkman]

Interesting. So when I stated--clearly and unequivocally--that the criminals should be prosecuted for their crimes, you somehow read this as my being "incapable of saying" what I did in fact say.

That's puzzling.

Yes, exactly. Your response to kimmy in which you excused the situation was your response. When you were called on it you were forced to back pedal and say that the criminals should be prosecuted.

You couldn't simply say they were wrong. Your mindset and that of the left is what is so puzzling.

[sharkman]

If you want negative stories on Blacks, Latinos, Arabs or homosexuals, tune in to FoxNoise; but if it's a negative story on the Republican Party, Israel, the rich, increasing corporate power, global warming, the Arms manufacturing industry etc. don't expect to find it at the voice of the new fascism!

Fox doesn't send their bubble-head blondes in to cover stories of Republican voter fraud: Campaigners used pot petition to dupe voters into registering as Republicans but they've been playing this piece about the two Black Panthers in Philadelphia for the last two years, just like their fraudulent attempt to destroy ACORN. If the hard right gets their wish and destroys community organizing groups like ACORN, they shouldn't be surprised if there is a resurgence in the Black Panthers.

Why don't you push your tripe on rabble leftwinger?

[lukin]

Bullcrap! Just because Obama is President, that doesn't mean Blacks have control of government in the U.S. White racists who want to keep Blacks marginalized, still have too many political and economic levers to wield to make a fair comparison.

You're making stuff up again.

[WIP]

Acorn was proven to be quite corrupt. Get the facts, then yap.

Congressional report clears ACORN of wrongdoing — after group forced to disband

When a duo of right-wing provocateurs posing as a pimp and prostitute released selectively-edited videos trying to impugn the community activist group ACORN, both Democrats and Republicans condemned the organization.

Congress then voted to cut off federal funding for the group (a decision that was later ruled unconstitutional). Following negative press and Congress' vote, ACORN effectively disbanded Apr. 1 and reorganized under new names.

But a just-issued report by the Government Accountability Office that reviewed ACORN's federal funding at the behest of Congress found little grist for the mill for politicians or right-wing bloggers looking to bash the now-defunct advocacy group for the poor.

The 38-page report surveyed over 31 federal agencies, probing how ACORN used federal funds and whether adequate controls on spending existed.

The report found no evidence of fraud, lax oversight or misuse of federal funds.

Story continues below...

Nuff said! Your fascist friends are making a determined effort to destroy any and every organization that works in poor neighbourhoods. And again, I think that they are going to keep ginning up race resentment until the U.S. looks like Yugoslavia of the 90's.

Edited July 10, 2010 by WIP

[WIP]

Why don't you push your tripe on rabble leftwinger?

As long as this is an open forum, I'll post the contrary evidence against rightwing propaganda. Many conservatives here are at least able to tolerate seeing opposing opinions....but you are not one of them! So why don't you go to one of the thousands of American conservative forums that run a right wing echo chamber.

[sharkman]

Nuff said! Your fascist friends are making a determined effort to destroy any and every organization that works in poor neighbourhoods. And again, I think that they are going to keep ginning up race resentment until the U.S. looks like Yugoslavia of the 90's.

You're a one trick pony wip, take it to rabble. Seriously. This white washing you speak of wrt Acorn obviously only looked at paperwork and records. People that break the law usually don't keep record of it. I love how you throw around words like fascism. You probably really believe fascism is on the rise, and the hated christians are behind it all!

Go be with your own kind on rabble.

[sharkman]

I'll post the contrary evidence against rightwing propaganda.

See, this is the part that proves you are nothing but another hard left babbler. A legitimate story with actual video showing the crime is called propaganda by you. Your own words convict you.

[bloodyminded]

Yes, exactly. Your response to kimmy in which you excused the situation was your response. When you were called on it you were forced to back pedal and say that the criminals should be prosecuted.

I didn't "excuse the situation," and I suggest to you it's not my fault how you misread me. I posted a response to another post; and by the way, Kimmy said nothing about prosecuting criminals either, so by your logic, she must oppose prosecuting them.

????????????

And I wasn't "called on it"...someone said they shouild be prosecuted, and I simply agreed.

How is this backpedaling?

Do you think racism agaisnt black people is bad? You must not, because you didn't mention it in your last post.

(This is your theory on omissions and "being called on it," not mine, just so we're clear.)

You couldn't simply say they were wrong. Your mindset and that of the left is what is so puzzling.

Yes, well no doubt it would be gratifying for you if you got to determine the precise parameters in which each discussion must go; so that other posters have the option to flatly agree without qualifications, or to say nothing.

Sadly, we here at MLW have not yet chosen to allow a single political perspective to become the golden rule of all discussion.

[sharkman]

Sure. Because most people quite rationally recognize that there is a difference. Under your scenario, those who have been part of the far more powerful and brutal sectors would be screaming to retain the historical power that is theirs by "right."

The difference is huge...because the difference is institutional.

Certainly the Panthers are thugs, but there is no comparison between the existing situation and the hypothetical.

Whitey is not being oppressed by black people.

Yes, this is excusing the situation. And since you brought up, "those who have been part of the far more powerful and brutal sectors would be screaming to retain the historical power that is theirs by "right."", little else can be said but that you were rationalizing their criminal behaviour.

Edited July 10, 2010 by sharkman

[bloodyminded]

Yes, this is excusing the situation. And since you brought up, "those who have been part of the far more powerful and brutal sectors would be screaming to retain the historical power that is theirs by "right."", little else can be said but that you were rationalizing their criminal behaviour.

I reiterate that I can't help it if you keep misreading me.

Here's an analogy of my view:

1. A young man, growing up in a chamber-horror household of abuse and neglect and hatred, thanks to generations of oppression among his people, commits a murder.

Should he be prosecuted?

Yes. He should be prosecuted.

2. A young man, growing up in a comfortable environment, and with real opportunity for success, has become corrupted by a sense of entitlement and power, and commits some murders; further, until quite recently, his type had been offered near-immunity for such behaviours, because in fact the type of people he has been murdering have historically been considered less improtant in a societal/legal/cultural institutionalized way.

Should he be prosecuted?

Yes, he should.

Good...so far, I'd wager, we're in agreement.

Where we disagree is to say that both situations are precisely the same. That's a joke.

[lictor616]

Congressional report clears ACORN of wrongdoing — after group forced to disband

When a duo of right-wing provocateurs posing as a pimp and prostitute released selectively-edited videos trying to impugn the community activist group ACORN, both Democrats and Republicans condemned the organization.

Congress then voted to cut off federal funding for the group (a decision that was later ruled unconstitutional). Following negative press and Congress' vote, ACORN effectively disbanded Apr. 1 and reorganized under new names.

But a just-issued report by the Government Accountability Office that reviewed ACORN's federal funding at the behest of Congress found little grist for the mill for politicians or right-wing bloggers looking to bash the now-defunct advocacy group for the poor.

The 38-page report surveyed over 31 federal agencies, probing how ACORN used federal funds and whether adequate controls on spending existed.

The report found no evidence of fraud, lax oversight or misuse of federal funds.

Story continues below...

Nuff said! Your fascist friends are making a determined effort to destroy any and every organization that works in poor neighbourhoods. And again, I think that they are going to keep ginning up race resentment until the U.S. looks like Yugoslavia of the 90's.

"right wing provocateurs"...

hahaaha!

you can trash this entire article.... there be bias a-plenty here.