Duceppe Wants Another Referendum on Separation

[scribblet]

Duceppe is gearing up for another referendum on separation, I don't think he'll get it, but I see elsewhere that the lefties are blaming this on Harper. Ho Hum - LOL

http://www.muchmormagazine.com/2010/04/duceppe-begins-the-first-leg-of-a-cross-country-tour-to-get-canadians-opinions-about-quebec-sovereignty/

[Topaz]

I notice this article was written in April and many things have change for the worse for the Quebec Libs. The Premier is still in trouble, as it was said on last nights news. If the Quebec people reject the Libs , then may be a very good chance for the Bloc to form some kind of government there. IF the Bloc did mange to form a government in Quebec , would they leave the House and spend their energies with their nation of Quebec? That would really change things in the House!

[Leafless]

IF the Bloc did mange to form a government in Quebec , would they leave the House and spend their energies with their nation of Quebec?

Nation of Quebec?

A nation is A politically organized body of people under a single government.

Looks like that leaves Quebec out of the definition of a nation.

[seabee]

A nation is A politically organized body of people under a single government.

According to this definition, there is no such thing as Jewish nation, nor a Kurd nation.

[kimmy]

I'm not afraid of another referendum in Quebec.

Just as long as it is made clear: Canada is not going to enter into some kind of semi-kinda BS arrangement where Quebec still gets access to Canada's resources.

If Quebec's pro-separation side starts talking about "sovereignty association" or any such thing, Canada needs to make it very clear that separation means none of that. The separatists can promote the idea that they can pick and chose what benefits of being in Canada they can keep, but Canada's leaders must make it very clear that they are incorrect. Separation means separate. Your own country. Not one red cent, evermore.

If it is made clear that sovereignty is not a buffet where you can chose some of this and some of that, and Quebec voters still vote for separation, then good for them. I wish them well.

-k

[punked]

No you already had 2 lost both times, you don't get to have one until you win. Tough.

[Moonlight Graham]

Nation of Quebec?

A nation is A politically organized body of people under a single government.

wrong.

you're probably thinking of a "state".

and Harper already has recognized Quebec as "a nation within a united Canada".

Edited June 12, 2010 by Moonlight Graham

[seabee]

Duceppe is not at all putting any emphasis on a referendum, but on the failure of thé Meech Lake accord, a las chance to terminate Quebec's indépendance mouvement.

Edited June 12, 2010 by seabee

[Machjo]

Duceppe is gearing up for another referendum on separation, I don't think he'll get it, but I see elsewhere that the lefties are blaming this on Harper. Ho Hum - LOL

http://www.muchmormagazine.com/2010/04/duceppe-begins-the-first-leg-of-a-cross-country-tour-to-get-canadians-opinions-about-quebec-sovereignty/

Seeing that Duceppe is a Federal and not Provincial minister, is it really his busines to be calling for a Quebec-wide referendum, or is he calling for a Canada-wide referendum

[Smallc]

He's not a minister.

[Machjo]

I notice this article was written in April and many things have change for the worse for the Quebec Libs. The Premier is still in trouble, as it was said on last nights news. If the Quebec people reject the Libs , then may be a very good chance for the Bloc to form some kind of government there. IF the Bloc did mange to form a government in Quebec , would they leave the House and spend their energies with their nation of Quebec? That would really change things in the House!

The Bloc is strictly a federal party. Are you sure you're not confusing it with the Parti Quebecois?

And a loss for the Quebec Libs does not automatically translate into a win for the PQ. There are other parties there, though granted the Libs and PQ are the two predominant parties.

[Machjo]

He's not a minister.

Sorry, MP.

[Machjo]

I'm not afraid of another referendum in Quebec.

Just as long as it is made clear: Canada is not going to enter into some kind of semi-kinda BS arrangement where Quebec still gets access to Canada's resources.

If Quebec's pro-separation side starts talking about "sovereignty association" or any such thing, Canada needs to make it very clear that separation means none of that. The separatists can promote the idea that they can pick and chose what benefits of being in Canada they can keep, but Canada's leaders must make it very clear that they are incorrect. Separation means separate. Your own country. Not one red cent, evermore.

If it is made clear that sovereignty is not a buffet where you can chose some of this and some of that, and Quebec voters still vote for separation, then good for them. I wish them well.

-k

Most Quebec voters are not stupid and I think they understand that.

That said, I do agree the question ought to be made clear. And to save money on a referendum, why not roll it together with a regular election? Just put the question at the bottom of the same ballot they'll vote for their MP.

[Remiel]

No you already had 2 lost both times, you don't get to have one until you win. Tough.

While I am, or was, inclined to think this way, I am not sure it is a very good argument. I would moderate it to say that it is the sort of question that should not be asked more than once in a generation. That way, the " you " has actually changed enough for it to count as " someone else " having made the decision.

[Machjo]

Such referenda are actually harmful to Quebec too as they essentially pit Quebecer against Quebecer. Repeated such referenda again and again and again are bound to have their toll on Quebec unity over time.

But hey, it's their choice.

But if the sovereigntists were wise, they would not have a referendum unless they know they could win it because each repeated referendum just divides Quebecers among themselves, and that's certainly not what the movement wants.

[Smallc]

It also drives investment out of Quebec.

[kimmy]

Most Quebec voters are not stupid and I think they understand that.

I don't think it's a question of stupid.

I am not sure that Quebec voters know whether Canadian's leaders would have the resolve to say no to some kind of "sovereignty-association" arrangement. (I myself am not sure that Canadian's leaders would have the resolve to say no to some kind of sovereignty-association arrangement.)

In the past, Quebec voters have been promised that saying yes to sovereignty doesn't mean separation and that they wouldn't have to give up things they like. I suspect that many Quebec voters still believe they could approach sovereignty like a buffet. I hope that whenever another separation referendum comes around, Canada has a leader who will make it clear to them that Canada will not agree to some sort of semi-attached arrangement.

That said, I do agree the question ought to be made clear. And to save money on a referendum, why not roll it together with a regular election? Just put the question at the bottom of the same ballot they'll vote for their MP.

I would not want this question to be part of a federal election. It is a matter for Quebec voters, and being part of a federal election would ensure that it dominated discussion election coverage from coast-to-coast to the detriment of other issues.

-k

[scribblet]

This is a current article.

If there is a referendum and they vote no, then this means we can and should stop pandering to them.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Duceppe+tells+world+another+referendum+coming/3144364/story.html

OTTAWA — The international community should brace for another referendum on Quebec sovereignty that will finally allow the province to become a country, said Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe in a newly released letter that was distributed around the world.

The message, sent in English, French and Spanish this week from Duceppe’s Parliament Hill office to 1,600 decision-makers and elected officials in the United States, Central and South America, Europe and Asia, suggests that Quebec Premier Jean Charest’s Liberal government is on the verge of being replaced by Pauline Marois’ Parti Quebecois and that the province is on a path that leads directly to the breakup of Canada.

[Machjo]

I would not want this question to be part of a federal election. It is a matter for Quebec voters, and being part of a federal election would ensure that it dominated discussion election coverage from coast-to-coast to the detriment of other issues.

-k

Sorry, I meant MNA, not MP.

[g_bambino]

A nation is A politically organized body of people under a single government.

"Nation" can mean more than a country, but for the context in which we're speaking, a nation (i.e. a state) is a politically organised body of people under a single government. Like Quebec.

[+]

Edited June 12, 2010 by g_bambino

[Remiel]

This is a current article.

If there is a referendum and they vote no, then this means we can and should stop pandering to them.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Duceppe+tells+world+another+referendum+coming/3144364/story.html

The arrogance of Duceppe in distributing such a letter can be palpably felt from where I sit.

[Oleg Bach]

I guess if you toss the dice long enough you will get the desired results. Why is it that a few French fanatics keep harrassing Quebecers that really just want to live and peace - those with great ambitions to have their own little French empire in North America should cool their jets...no one wants to help these guys - even the French are tired of all this power mongering for selfish reasons.

[Machjo]

I guess if you toss the dice long enough you will get the desired results. Why is it that a few French fanatics keep harrassing Quebecers that really just want to live and peace - those with great ambitions to have their own little French empire in North America should cool their jets...no one wants to help these guys - even the French are tired of all this power mongering for selfish reasons.

Actually, some in France would like to see an independent Quebec and would likely quickly try to establish coser ties with Quebec in terms of trade and such. But I doubt Quebec could count on France for a government cash infusion, but free trade would certainly help. Also, seeing that Quebec is powering New York, I'm sure the US would see it in their best interests to maintain free trade with Quebec.

As for me, I'm really undecided on the issue, but I do believe that separation on amicable terms would not hurt either side too much in the long run, though granted there would be short term growing pains.

[punked]

Actually, some in France would like to see an independent Quebec and would likely quickly try to establish coser ties with Quebec in terms of trade and such. But I doubt Quebec could count on France for a government cash infusion, but free trade would certainly help. Also, seeing that Quebec is powering New York, I'm sure the US would see it in their best interests to maintain free trade with Quebec.

As for me, I'm really undecided on the issue, but I do believe that separation on amicable terms would not hurt either side too much in the long run, though granted there would be short term growing pains.

Yah too bad the last time there was a referendum in 1995 the first nations had their own referendum where they said they would separate from Quebec to stay with Canada. Their land is where all that Hydro comes from so Quebec wouldn't have the Hydro Canada would.

[seabee]

« the first nations had their own referendum »

True. But that was 15 years ago. Had you been following the news, you should know that many things have changed since in the relations betwwen the Québec governement and the First Nations. Look up "La Paix des Braves".