Mosque going up in NYC building

[ToadBrother]

I find it so typical that so many who don't agree with those in opposition can't accept that everyone who opposes it isn't bigoted, biased, anti-Muslim, et al. And the really funny part is that they think they are so tolerant, while anyone who questions this project is clearly intolerant. Yeah right. They're so tolerant that they can't even accept that everyone who opposes this project isn't bigoted, and they call them liars for not admitting that they are anti-Islamic or for not admitting that they think the project should be banned -- when it's not the way they feel. What they actually believe, think, feel means nothing to this 'tolerant bunch' who has put their biased opinion and intolerant views on others.

What I find hard to fathom is how you can think that not tarring every Muslim out there with the stain of 9-11 in the way you've repeatedly done isn't bigotry.

[DogOnPorch]

What I find hard to fathom is how you can think that not tarring every Muslim out there with the stain of 9-11 in the way you've repeatedly done isn't bigotry.

Islam sucks.

[Guest American Woman]

What I find hard to fathom is how you can think that not tarring every Muslim out there with the stain of 9-11 in the way you've repeatedly done isn't bigotry.

I'm sure you do find it hard to fathom, because you yourself are bigoted so you cannot see anything outside your bigoted sight. I've done nothing of the sort, but you have no problem with accusing me of it, and that makes you bigoted. Yet you believe you are the tolerant one.

You think because I object to one project, a project that the majority of Americans and New Yorkers disapprove of in polls, for the reasons I've stated, I'm "tarring every Muslim with the stain of 9-11." When I've done no such thing.

You, my friend, are the one who is bigoted, but apparently it's ok to be bigoted against me and anyone who doesn't approve of this project; anyone who would dare question something Muslims are doing. It's ok to question everyone and everything else, just not Islam/Muslims. It's just wrong to question anything Muslims do.

And again, you think that makes you so tolerant, as you throw false accusations at others, based on your bigoted preconceived ideas of what they believe. What a joke.

Edited August 3, 2010 by American Woman

[DogOnPorch]

...feel free to label me due to my intolerance towards intolerance.

[waldo]

It appears that the Council has voted down the request to make the Burlington Coat Factory Building an historic landmark, as well it should! If you look at a few of the pictures of this building, it's an ugly piece of crap, no different than any other institutional building from the last century. Even if it was fixed up it would still be an eyesore! Of all of the excuses and objections to the construction of Cordoba House, this was the lamest of the lot!

for the "ground-zero" location... that's not... that's actually 2 blocks and a 'round-the-corner' away. But don't let that get in the way of the feverish resentment fueled by the likes of Palin, Gingrich, the usual Republican/Tea Party suspects... and self-described MLW progressives like AW!

[BubberMiley]

It appears that the Council has voted down the request to make the Burlington Coat Factory Building an historic landmark, as well it should! If you look at a few of the pictures of this building, it's an ugly piece of crap, no different than any other institutional building from the last century. Even if it was fixed up it would still be an eyesore! Of all of the excuses and objections to the construction of Cordoba House, this was the lamest of the lot!

Those of us in Winnipeg value our 19th century industrial warehouses tremendously. None of them are ugly, nor were they ever built to be pieces of crap like the stucco boxes of today. And once fools who haven't a clue tear them down, they're gone for good.

[Guest American Woman]

There was a proposal for landmark status before 9-11, so putting it up for a vote for landmark status had nothing to do with trying to stop the Islamic center from being built. I don't know if some people feel that was a last ditch effort to prevent the center from being built, but it wasn't.

But that's not the only building that was proposed as a landmark; there was "a group of 29 buildings proposed for historic designation in 1989," and before this vote, "23 were deemed landmarks," with the other six still pending. This building, of course, is no longer pending; evidently it's the only building of those voted on so far to be denied landmark status. So thus far 23 out of 29 have been granted landmark status, one has not (this building), and the other five are still pending.

link

[DogOnPorch]

for the "ground-zero" location... that's not... that's actually 2 blocks and a 'round-the-corner' away. But don't let that get in the way of the feverish resentment fueled by the likes of Palin, Gingrich, the usual Republican/Tea Party suspects... and self-described MLW progressives like AW!

'Ground Two Blocks' I suppose. The building was damaged heavily during 9-11 by falling landing gear, I believe. AW's point is had the attack never happened, the building would not have been available for this mosque/daycare centre/halal McDonalds in the first place. This groups current mosque is uptown a ways but they have been having intermitent services in the damaged building already. Their current mosque is TINY which make me wonder...and others wonder...where the 100 million is coming from. Perhaps you know.

In many folks opinions...maybe not yours...putting this new structure at that location is in extreme bad taste. Then to say it is to honour the victims in the same breath...yeah...OK.

[Machjo]

Now that the project is a go-ahead, I think that's true. So far, from what I've read, they're not disclosing that information.

First off, unless there is a truly valid reason for the government to force the mosque to disclose that information, at least to the public, the Constitution would likely not permit it,

And secondly, to require all mosques to disclose such information within certain geographical areas would likely require the government to require all religious institutions within these areas to do the same.

[DogOnPorch]

And secondly, to require all mosques to disclose such information within certain geographical areas would likely require the government to require all religious institutions within these areas to do the same.

What's wrong with that? Get rid of the tax-exempt BS while they're at it.

[Machjo]

What's wrong with that? Get rid of the tax-exempt BS while they're at it.

Perhaps, but would you intend for this to apply to all not-for-profit organizations and not just mosques?

[DogOnPorch]

Perhaps, but would you intend for this to apply to all not-for-profit organizations and not just mosques?

Charities should definately be opening their books, but perhaps you'd WANT to keep a tax incentive to the donor in order to keep money flowing to charities. But churches, mosques, etc? Forget it.

[Oleg Bach]

THEY did not take action against SAUDI ARABIA - when they put up the money to launch 9 11 - so what's the big deal when the Saudis decide they might as well take over New York religiously speaking? America takes it up it's has been Christian ass and the Muslims are more than happy to bugger the naive liberal whore boys who occupy public and private office.

[Smallc]

It was funny watching the bleeding heart conservatives on Hannity's Great American Panel whining about this....at least the woman on the panel had a brain.

[bloodyminded]

THEY did not take action against SAUDI ARABIA - when they put up the money to launch 9 11 - so what's the big deal when the Saudis decide they might as well take over New York religiously speaking? America takes it up it's has been Christian ass and the Muslims are more than happy to bugger the naive liberal whore boys who occupy public and private office.

This is a sign of the Saudis taking over New York, "religiously speaking"?

I've learned something new today.

[Sir Bandelot]

Pat Robertson is organizing a legal challenge to stop plans for the mosque. Several Republicans are also in opposition to this, such as Sarah Palin, and Newt Gingrich.

All people that American Woman "understands".

Whether they manage to stop the mosque, or not, what will it do to the concept of tolerance for mosques or your average American muslim? Certainly won't be a good thing.

But I don't blame ordinary Americans for being confused about their enemies. Thay are bombarded by such a level of bullshit every day, from factions on either side. They don't know their ass from a hole in the ground no more.

[Sir Bandelot]

Oh here's the link-

Conservative group to fight ground zero mosque decision

[Oleg Bach]

This is a sign of the Saudis taking over New York, "religiously speaking"?

I've learned something new today.

The money that was use to facilitate 9 11 - did not come out of some crude cave in Afganistan..It came out of Saudi --and Pakistan...NOW we are finding out that these so-called allies were playing both sides of the fence ---I mentioned this a couple of years ago and no one would listen - But because our corporate powers in oil and the weapons trade have close ties to these jerks we dare not offend them even if they kill 3000 of our citizens in one fail swoop...I guess the Saudis got bored chopping off hands and stoning adultering women - and 9 11 promised a bigger thrill.

ALL Mosques going up in Europe and North America are funded by the oil rich SAUDIS..We buy their oil and they destroy our culture with our own silly addiction.

AS our Christian churches fall into disrepair...mulit-million dollar temples are being built on Christian soil...don't laugh - it was the concepts in Christianity that built our civilization and made it prosper.

AS we systemically secularize and become a lawless people - Muslims live in contained religious order - and they will take over - it is a matter of time.....as some lunatic was screaming "god is great" and as he pushed the throttle full tilt towards the towers ----HE had no idea how successful he was going to be in the internal displacement of our culture - Perhaps we should build a Muslim monument for the brave and noble jerks that flew the planes?

[Machjo]

THEY did not take action against SAUDI ARABIA - when they put up the money to launch 9 11 - so what's the big deal when the Saudis decide they might as well take over New York religiously speaking? America takes it up it's has been Christian ass and the Muslims are more than happy to bugger the naive liberal whore boys who occupy public and private office.

First off, most Muslims in NYC are likely locals, possibly even natives, and not foreigners.

Secondly, I can't imagine Jesus Christ campaigning for religious persecution. Last I'd read the Gospels, he taught to stay out of politics and that all are children of God. What Bible have you been reading?

[Sir Bandelot]

AS we systemically secularize and become a lawless people - Muslims live in contained religious order - and they will take over - it is a matter of time.....as some lunatic was screaming "god is great" and as he pushed the throttle full tilt towards the towers ----HE had no idea how successful he was going to be in the internal displacement of our culture

Yes you are right, they were enormously successful, far far beyind the mere act of toppling the building and killing several thousand people. Impressive though it was in itself, the repercussions spread out across the western civilization, radicalizing us. But for this second bomb WE are also to blame. Our responses were violently reactionary. With the collapse of those buildings our own culture imploded, and it was done largely by our own hand.

The response to 9/11 was over-reaction. It's undersandable to have some kind of military response, go after the culprits but the response was such an over-reaction. We cannot let go of it. Certainly as long as these wars continue to drag on. The war is part of the psychosis that keeps us re-living the event, over and over.

[bloodyminded]

Yes you are right, they were enormously successful, far far beyind the mere act of toppling the building and killing several thousand people. Impressive though it was in itself, the repercussions spread out across the western civilization, radicalizing us. But for this second bomb WE are also to blame. Our responses were violently reactionary. With the collapse of those buildings our own culture imploded, and it was done largely by our own hand.

The response to 9/11 was over-reaction. It's undersandable to have some kind of military response, go after the culprits but the response was such an over-reaction. We cannot let go of it. Certainly as long as these wars continue to drag on. The war is part of the psychosis that keeps us re-living the event, over and over.

Well said, SB.

[Oleg Bach]

First off, most Muslims in NYC are likely locals, possibly even natives, and not foreigners.

Secondly, I can't imagine Jesus Christ campaigning for religious persecution. Last I'd read the Gospels, he taught to stay out of politics and that all are children of God. What Bible have you been reading?

It..is not about religion or persecution - do you actually believe that a waring Muslim actually believes in God or goodness? Do you actually believe that some of their leaders are not saints but men who lust for power?

As for the bible - I tossed out the water along with the baby...some things in gospel are good and useful - other things are political and a damned lie..

I don't care how you imagine Jesus the Christ to be..He was a revolutionary - and in line for the legitimate kingship of Judea - they and the Romans wanted him gone not because of his spiritual declarations but because of the fact that he was king of Judea - "king of the Jews" - Pilate knew who he was - apparently you have a politically minded and romantic notion of the savior.

THIS IS ABOUT TURF --- Imagine us as a street gang - we either protect our vested interests or we do not - Muslims that I spoke to privately - admit that "we will breed you out of existance'

Political correctness is about FORCED tolerance.... if you want to be the nice globalist...and the tolerant type - you might as well hand over the treasury now.

[Machjo]

The money that was use to facilitate 9 11 - did not come out of some crude cave in Afganistan..It came out of Saudi --and Pakistan...NOW we are finding out that these so-called allies were playing both sides of the fence ---I mentioned this a couple of years ago and no one would listen - But because our corporate powers in oil and the weapons trade have close ties to these jerks we dare not offend them even if they kill 3000 of our citizens in one fail swoop...I guess the Saudis got bored chopping off hands and stoning adultering women - and 9 11 promised a bigger thrill.

Innocent until proven guilty... unless you're a Muslim by Oleg Bach of course.

ALL Mosques going up in Europe and North America are funded by the oil rich SAUDIS..We buy their oil and they destroy our culture with our own silly addiction.

Yup, innocent until proven guilty is highly overrated. Also,all those Christian churches in China (and yes, I've lived in China and believe it or not, there are churches and Christian congregations there) are an example of the West taking over China religiously speaking according to your logic. Personally though, i'd disagree and say those Christians are just as Chinese as any other Chinese and became Christian not to be Westernized, but because they believe in Christ. Yet you now imply that an American who converts to Is;am also converts to Arabism and is no longer a true American; that you have to believe in Christ to be a true American.

AS our Christian churches fall into disrepair...mulit-million dollar temples are being built on Christian soil...don't laugh - it was the concepts in Christianity that built our civilization and made it prosper.

So now you pathetically blame Muslims for churches falling into disrepair? I'm not a Christian myself and so give to my own religious community, so I can't do much about Christians who choose to be less than charitable about funding and maintaining your churches. Now what? You want the government to tax me and fund the maintenance of churches itself with my tax dollars because Christians have chosen to be less than charitable? I'm all religious organizations being tax exempt, but that's a far cry from actually forcing me to fund a religion that is not even my own because you're too cheap to open up your wallet.

AS we systemically secularize and become a lawless people - Muslims live in contained religious order - and they will take over - it is a matter of time.....as some lunatic was screaming "god is great" and as he pushed the throttle full tilt towards the towers ----HE had no idea how successful he was going to be in the internal displacement of our culture - Perhaps we should build a Muslim monument for the brave and noble jerks that flew the planes?

Now that just shows your no-so-Christian hatred for others because of what some otehrs they did not een know did. Besides, many innocent Muslims died too.

Amen, Alleluja, and Praise the lord Almighty.

[bloodyminded]

THIS IS ABOUT TURF --- Imagine us as a street gang - we either protect our vested interests or we do not - Muslims that I spoke to privately - admit that "we will breed you out of existance'

This is preposterous.

While you're merrily reading Mark Steyn, and bafflingly considering him to be sober and reasonable, consider his many predictions:

Iraq will be a thriving democracy and tourist trap...by 2004.

The Saudis and the Syrians (thanks to Bush and company's aggression) will have overthrown their rulers and become democratic by...2010. (I suppose it might happen in the next four months.

And the radical Muslims are going to take over the West....

Edited August 4, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Machjo]

It..is not about religion or persecution - do you actually believe that a waring Muslim actually believes in God or goodness? Do you actually believe that some of their leaders are not saints but men who lust for power?

As for the bible - I tossed out the water along with the baby...some things in gospel are good and useful - other things are political and a damned lie..

I don't care how you imagine Jesus the Christ to be..He was a revolutionary - and in line for the legitimate kingship of Judea - they and the Romans wanted him gone not because of his spiritual declarations but because of the fact that he was king of Judea - "king of the Jews" - Pilate knew who he was - apparently you have a politically minded and romantic notion of the savior.

THIS IS ABOUT TURF --- Imagine us as a street gang - we either protect our vested interests or we do not - Muslims that I spoke to privately - admit that "we will breed you out of existance'

Political correctness is about FORCED tolerance.... if you want to be the nice globalist...and the tolerant type - you might as well hand over the treasury now.

Wait a minute. So you reject the Bible yourself or at least pick and choose from it and then criticize the US for being as secular as you are? Talk about the kettle calling the grey cloud black.

I have a hard time imagining a real Christian would type what you typed. This leads me to believe you're an anti-Christian troll trying to give Christians a bad name. Am I right?