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Wikileaks video of combat in Iraq


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No they didn't.

A direct quote, "There is no question that coalition forces were clearly engaged in combat operations against a hostile force." -Spokesman Lt. Colonel Scott Bleichwehl

BS there was no combat, there was no engagement until the helicopters fired, there was no return fire...
They didn't shoot civilians. Unless you're suggesting that they had a legitimate reason for a Sunday stroll with an RPG, and a very tactical peak around a corner with what may or may not be that said RPG in hand, at a US HumVee parked up the road. Have to be a heck of a reason in a place like that.

It isn't counterstrike. If you don't pull the trigger, you don't get another life after he does.

most of those killed were carrying nothing, not even cameras...shooting unarmed and clearly wounded is a crime, it's murder...a crime for which one Canadian is now standing trial... Edited by wyly
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Having watched the video, it seems to me that there was no real wrongdoing. They simply mistook the cameras for weapons, an entirely possible mistake given the limitations of the technology as seen in the video.

What do others here think?

If you're a journalist operating in a war zone you're dancing in the middle of a three-lane highway. You may well survive but it's a bit dicey. It seems to me that they assumed the risk.

The arguments that this is some sort of an atrocity is made by those who oppose the West even being there.

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The arguments that this is some sort of an atrocity is made by those who oppose the West even being there.

I completely oppose the war in Iraq, but I don't understand what the issue is here. The only real question I have, is if it was really necessary to put those three missiles into the building. But I am not one to judge.

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BS there was no combat, there was no engagement until the helicopters fired, there was no return fire...

I see. So from behind your computer screen, you've arrived at absolute certainty that the gunships were not called in for any reason, there was no prior firefight causing them to be on the look out for such a group, and the group was out to trade their RPG's for lollipops.

most of those killed were carrying nothing, not even cameras...shooting unarmed and clearly wounded is a crime, it's murder...a crime for which one Canadian is now standing trial...

So you suggest what?

The helicopter lands, the crew gets out and politely asks those individuals with assault rifles and anti-tank munitions to move to one side of the street, and those individuals without the other, so they don't have to worry about being hit?

I suspect you wouldn't last very long in a warzone. Common sense tells that standing beside somebody with a large weapon in an area of conflict is a pretty good ticket to getting killed.

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BS there was no combat, there was no engagement until the helicopters fired, there was no return fire...

*chortle*

Well you are absolutley right. Especially if you ignore the evidence of those coalition forces who had been under fire...

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/04/06/6--2nd.brigade.combat.team.15-6.investigation.pdf

See page 12-13 item 5

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....Whatever your opinion of them may be and just because you don't like the implication, that doesn't change the fact that what I said was right. The public deserves to know if the military is shooting up civilians adn deserves to know why.

The answer is "Yes". The reasons are not complicated. 30mm rounds are not that smart yet, but we are working on it! :)

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BS there was no combat, there was no engagement until the helicopters fired, there was no return fire...

This is hopelessly naive....why bother responding.

most of those killed were carrying nothing, not even cameras...shooting unarmed and clearly wounded is a crime, it's murder...a crime for which one Canadian is now standing trial...

Sorry, but our guys were in uniform as legitimate combatants. Your guy wasn't.

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Considering the US Army, before the video even came out, denied this even happened, it would be prudent to call into question the voracity of the document.

No kidding.

Considering the U.S. government used fudged evidence to justify it's invasion of Iraq in the first place the veracity of everything it's said since is in question.

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No kidding.

Considering the U.S. government used fudged evidence to justify it's invasion of Iraq in the first place the veracity of everything it's said since is in question.

What's to question? US policy says topple Saddam and Iraq....so it was written...so it shall be done.

Whining about it now won't change the reality of invasion or counter-insurgency ops.

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Read the US army report....and you'll find it was not a accident it was a legit shooting....If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quakes like a duck odds are it's a FUUUking duck...

The report was made by the US army...Do you expect them to blame their men?? We know a lot about how honest authorities can be about their actions....Accidents have boundaries.

There was a military operation on going....as for the chooper they like to strike at a distance, so they may have heard it or got a glance at it....but that’s was it....

They hear things all the time...It’s a ruined city. When I play Call of Duty, I shoot at anything and everything that makes a noise.

Ya, i'm complete clueless about the dangers in a war zone...and about the money if it was all about the money ....i'd of never served 3 tours in Afghan....but a million dollars...i'd do a 4 th tour....

"but a million dollars...I’d do a 4th tour...." So, it is about money for you. I know the Canadian Army is paying well.

These journalists are in a lot more danger than the soldiers because they are not armed and have to report alone. They don’t get paid anything close to a customer service rep working in McDonalds (read about war journalism on Google). Interpreters/translators are a different case and they go there just for the money and I think that was your view.

Been reading the papers again i see....Ya your nations military are brutes, who spit on the conventions that this great nation signed on to....is that the speach you read....or was it that our soldiers have kept thier end up of the conventions, and it was alittle higher up the chain of command your shooting at....

Let me refresh your mind. There is something called human rights which every person in the world is entitled to even if they are accused of crimes. I know the Canadian Army is not anything like the US army but we don’t have a clean record either. This issue is being discussed in the parliament right now, we will see it here soon. I got the feeling that you dont like the papers???

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BS there was no combat, there was no engagement until the helicopters fired, there was no return fire...

This is not chapter 6 peacekeeping. This is a war theatre.

most of those killed were carrying nothing, not even cameras...shooting unarmed and clearly wounded is a crime, it's murder...a crime for which one Canadian is now standing trial...

I agree that the circumstances here were, in part, unfortunate. So many things about war are. But I also think it's the notion of war itself you object to, not the specifics of this situation.

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My question is, this seems like a pretty clear cut case of actually getting the bad guy, RPG's are pretty good evidence at that. Yet their is plenty of evidence available in print media, books, etc, of things like Air Strikes and Artillery being dropped on 'suspected' targets. Things like buildings & hamlets, with god knows what inside.

So such things get printed quietly into the night, but this causes a furor? This makes no sense to me. Is this because a very selectively edited WikiLinks video makes it easy to take a stance, evidenced by people too lazy to watch the 40 minute raw footage, or read reports? That's not much of standing up for a cause.

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It sets off a threat alarm in the helicopter. If there's about to be a SAM launch, you wanna know.

Bullocks. Optical sensors such as the Mark 1 Eyeball that all US soldiers are suppose to be equipped with are passive in nature. They do not emit any signal that can be detected or traced, other then perhaps a light reflecting off a glass lens. Active tracking sensors such as lasers, radar and inferred do emit a signal and can be detected.

IIRC, the standard RPG is a very simple weapon, basically a hollow tube with an iron sight, and not very high tech in its aiming. It has no electronic sighting or guidance, you point, you shoot, you hope it hits the target.

A mistake was made by the crews of the helicopters, and yeah judging from the video voice over, they were a bunch of gungho trigger happy cowboys, but an honest mistake was made. The biggest outrage came not from the incident itself, but that the US Army attempted to cover it up. It makes you wonder how many other incidents there are out there waiting to be leaked.

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The report was made by the US army...Do you expect them to blame their men?? We know a lot about how honest authorities can be about their actions....Accidents have boundaries.

SO everyone in the US army has lied to you in the past, no one is to be trusted....including this report...what about the dozens of court cases now before the US courts chargeing us service personal of crimes of some sort or another....are they to be believed...or are they the exception.....

Let me make this clear to you this shooting was no accident...it was a military operation which ended with the killing of minimum 2 insurgents....Can you say that those that were not armed with 100 certainity where not insurgents...would not have assisted in some way in the deaths of americans....but you've made up your mind anyways...

"but a million dollars...I’d do a 4th tour...." So, it is about money for you. I know the Canadian Army is paying well.

Ya, what ever....We are payed very well, where did i park my Cady again....

These journalists are in a lot more danger than the soldiers because they are not armed and have to report alone.

ever been to a war zone Billy.....step on to the battle field and the clock starts ticking....and when your time is up....it does not care if your black, brown, white, or pink with warts on your dick...or if your a warrior or civilian, firefighter, or journalist...something is going to find you and kill you sure as shit....there is very few rules, no honor, no glory , nothing but death and more death....step on to the battle field and you pay the price....

Let me refresh your mind. There is something called human rights which every person in the world is entitled to even if they are accused of crimes. I know the Canadian Army is not anything like the US army but we don’t have a clean record either. This issue is being discussed in the parliament right now, we will see it here soon. I got the feeling that you dont like the papers???

Another first someone from BC lecturing me about human rights....OK , i'd like to clearify some thing first....when you say "we" in the sentence "we dont have a clean record either" are you refering to me and you or just Canadian soldiers, because i don't want to taint you with any of "our" bad deeds, or suposed bad deeds becuase unless i'm wrong those very same rights you gave me a lecture on ...well those also refer to those accused of those very crimes....and as of yet nothing has been proven in court ...so until they do i would say our record is clean....unless you have other examples....

I love the media, i love how the same story can be given out at the same time at the same place, and spin in dozens of directions....and have nothing to do with the orginal briefing.....I hate the fact that very few will report the news , and not twist it to sell papers....i hate the fact that blood sells and good will does not rate....

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...A mistake was made by the crews of the helicopters, and yeah judging from the video voice over, they were a bunch of gungho trigger happy cowboys, but an honest mistake was made. The biggest outrage came not from the incident itself, but that the US Army attempted to cover it up. It makes you wonder how many other incidents there are out there waiting to be leaked.

Nonsense...there was no mistake. Ordnance was placed on target after permission to fire. Sorry, but not all US gun cam video is available for your review or inspection on YouTube.

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....I love the media, i love how the same story can be given out at the same time at the same place, and spin in dozens of directions....and have nothing to do with the orginal briefing.....I hate the fact that very few will report the news , and not twist it to sell papers....i hate the fact that blood sells and good will does not rate....

...and that's why we get punked media stories like dashing puppies off of A-stan cliffs. If Pulitzers are so important to these media wonks, then they can damn well die for their cause too.

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I love the media, i love how the same story can be given out at the same time at the same place, and spin in dozens of directions....and have nothing to do with the orginal briefing.....I hate the fact that very few will report the news , and not twist it to sell papers....i hate the fact that blood sells and good will does not rate....

...and that's why we get punked media stories like dashing puppies off of A-stan cliffs. If Pulitzers are so important to these media wonks, then they can damn well die for their cause too.

They do. I've noticed a tendency in the forces to view the media as the deathwatch. It's unfortunate, as reporters are as important to protecting democracy as are the troops. And they are pretty critical appendages of the war machine, which is why both the Canadian and US forces have been so eager to embed them.

Edited by dizzy
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Wow. Unless you are legally blind, it is obvious that the camera does not look anything like an RPG. Not to mention that the video we are seeing is not in as good of a quality as what the people in the apache helicopter were seeing.

These young, trigger happy soldiers should release their need to pull the trigger by playing video games. Not by playing with innocent people's lives.

This is just one tape. Who knows what else is out there locked in the archives hidden away as classified documents. Apparently Wikileaks also has tapes showing civilian killings in Afghanistan.

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Wow. Unless you are legally blind, it is obvious that the camera does not look anything like an RPG. Not to mention that the video we are seeing is not in as good of a quality as what the people in the apache helicopter were seeing.

These young, trigger happy soldiers should release their need to pull the trigger by playing video games. Not by playing with innocent people's lives.

This is just one tape. Who knows what else is out there locked in the archives hidden away as classified documents. Apparently Wikileaks also has tapes showing civilian killings in Afghanistan.

You obviously haven't read the investighation and I see no reason to discuss it with you until you do.

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A mistake was made by the crews of the helicopters...

No, they killed the insurgents. A mistake was made by Reuters....not wearing a press vest, getting up close and personal with belligerents who when armed are allowed to be prosecuyed with extreme force and prejudice.

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Guest American Woman

Wow. Unless you are legally blind, it is obvious that the camera does not look anything like an RPG. Not to mention that the video we are seeing is not in as good of a quality as what the people in the apache helicopter were seeing.

Since you acknowledge that the people in the helicopter had a better quality view than you do, seems to me their claim that they saw RPG's would be more accurate than your claim that they didn't look like an RPG to you. Seems to me the ones with "the better view" would be the ones better able to make the call.

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