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Posted

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/twin-blasts-rock-moscow-subway-brat-rush-hour-dozens-killed/article1515378/

Would not at all be surprised to find out the Russian government was behind this. It's fairly certain that they were behind the string of apartment block bombings that led to the second Chechen War. That war caused Putin's popularity to skyrocket.

Funny how without any evidence at all you immediately conclude that it was a government conspiracy.

Posted

If you knew anything about the Russian government you wouldn't be surprised at all.

I know plenty about the Russian government and would not be surprised if they did indeed have something to do with it. But, it is just as possible that they did not, that it was a terrorist attack or something else. The general characteristics of a government are not enough to conclude that they are responsible for any one particular event without any additional evidence.

Posted

I know plenty about the Russian government and would not be surprised if they did indeed have something to do with it. But, it is just as possible that they did not, that it was a terrorist attack or something else. The general characteristics of a government are not enough to conclude that they are responsible for any one particular event without any additional evidence.

Well, I started streaming the wholly state owned and controlled Russia Today english language news channel and in the 10 minutes I've been watching, they've already trotted out 3 regular reporters who happened to be in the stations at the time of the explosions. To me, that's a too much of a coincidence.

Posted

Well, I started streaming the wholly state owned and controlled Russia Today english language news channel and in the 10 minutes I've been watching, they've already trotted out 3 regular reporters who happened to be in the stations at the time of the explosions. To me, that's a too much of a coincidence.

And why is that such a coincidence? Millions of people commute using the metro. The people commuting include members of many professions, certainly not excluding reporters. So why would there not have been reporters in the stations, on the trains, etc?

Posted

And why is that such a coincidence? Millions of people commute using the metro. The people commuting include members of many professions, certainly not excluding reporters. So why would there not have been reporters in the stations, on the trains, etc?

Precisely because it is a city of millions. 1? Sure, maybe. 3? To me, a little convenient.

Posted (edited)

Precisely because it is a city of millions. 1? Sure, maybe. 3? To me, a little convenient.

You don't think there is a reasonable chance for 3 reporters having happened to be on the metro at a given moment in a city like Moscow? I would think there were very likely many more than 3, probably dozens or hundreds of reporters on the metro at that time. There are thousands and thousands of people employed in the field of journalism in a city of millions, and people spend a good chunk of their day commuting, perhaps on the order of an hour or so, so many of them would be in the metro at any given time. Nothing particularly unlikely seeming to me.

Edited by Bonam
Posted

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/twin-blasts-rock-moscow-subway-brat-rush-hour-dozens-killed/article1515378/

Would not at all be surprised to find out the Russian government was behind this. It's fairly certain that they were behind the string of apartment block bombings that led to the second Chechen War. That war caused Putin's popularity to skyrocket.

No of course not. It was a Mossad false flag operation. I saw Jews oops I mean Israelis dancing in Moscow as the subways exploded.

No wait, it was a CIA operation.

Oh it was a joint CIA Mossand operation.

No wait the free masons did it.

No wait the illuminati did it.

No wait the Georgians did it.

No wait Paris Hilton did it.

I come to you to hell.

Posted

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/twin-blasts-rock-moscow-subway-brat-rush-hour-dozens-killed/article1515378/

Would not at all be surprised to find out the Russian government was behind this. It's fairly certain that they were behind the string of apartment block bombings that led to the second Chechen War. That war caused Putin's popularity to skyrocket.

It's fairly certain....right.

RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS

If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us

Posted

You don't think there is a reasonable chance for 3 reporters having happened to be on the metro at a given moment in a city like Moscow? I would think there were very likely many more than 3, probably dozens or hundreds of reporters on the metro at that time. There are thousands and thousands of people employed in the field of journalism in a city of millions, and people spend a good chunk of their day commuting, perhaps on the order of an hour or so, so many of them would be in the metro at any given time. Nothing particularly unlikely seeming to me.

The reporters were all employed by the same news agency. Furthermore, I never said it was a certainty, only said that I wouldn't be surprised if it was the government. Now I'm some kind of conspiracy theorist? That's too funny. Like I said, read up on what the Russian government does and then call me that. These are the same people that assassinated an ex-spy with radioactive materials and the guy the UK wants extradited in the murder was given a seat in Russian Parliament. Compared to that, a subway bomb is nothing.

Posted

It's fairly certain....right.

Ryazan incident

At 8:30 P.M. on 22 September, 1999, a resident of an apartment building in the city of Ryazan noticed two suspicious men who carried sacks into the basement from a car with a Moscow license plate.[23][35][36][37]. He alerted the police, but by the time they arrived the car and the men were gone. The policemen found three 50 kg sacks of white powder in the basement. A detonator and a timing device were attached and armed. The timer was set to 5:30 AM.[17] Yuri Tkachenko, the head of the local bomb squad, disconnected the detonator and the timer and tested the three sacks of white substance with a "MO-2" gas analyzer. The device detected traces of RDX, the military explosive used in all previous bombings.[9] Police and rescue vehicles converged from different parts of the city, and 30,000 residents were evacuated from the area. 1,200 local police officers armed with automatic weapons set up roadblocks on highways around the city and started patrolling railroad stations and airports to hunt the terrorists down.[9]

At 1:30 A.M. on 23 September, the explosive engineers took a bit of substance from the suspicious-looking sacks to a firing ground located some kilometers away from Ryazan for testing.[38] During the substance tests at that area they tried to explode it by means of a detonator, but their efforts failed, the substance was not detonated, and the explosion did not occur.[38][39][40][41] At 5 A.M. Radio Rossiya reported about the attempted bombing noting that the bomb was set up to go off at 5:30 A.M. In the morning, "Ryazan resembled a city under siege". Composite sketches of three suspected terrorists, two men and a woman, were posted everywhere in the city and shown on TV. At 8:00 A.M. Russian television reported the attempt to blow out the building in Ryzan and identified the explosive used in the bomb as RDX[42]. Vladimir Rushailo announced later that police prevented a terrorist act. A news block at 4 p.m. reported that the explosives failed to detonate during their testing outside the city[38][39][43][44][40][41]

At 7 P.M. Prime Minister of Russia Vladimir Putin praised the vigilance of the Ryazanians and called for the air bombing of the Chechen capital Grozny in response to the terrorism acts[45]. He said [46]:

“ If the sacks which proved to contain explosive were noticed, that means there is a positive side to it, if only the fact that the public is reacting correctly to the events taking place in our country today. I'd like ...to thank the public... No panic, no sympathy for the bandits. ”

Later, the same evening, a telephone service employee in Ryazan tapped into long distance phone conversations and managed to detect a talk in which an out-of-town person suggested to others that they "split up" and "make your own way out". That person's number was traced to a telephone exchange unit serving FSB offices.[47] When arrested, the detainees produced FSB identification cards. They were soon released on orders from Moscow.[48][49]

On 24 September, FSB director Nikolai Patrushev announced that the exercise was carried out to test responses after the earlier blasts[50]. The Ryzan FSB "reacted with fury" and issued a statement saying[46]:

“ This announcement came as a surprise to us and appeared at the moment when the ...FSB had identified the places of residence in Ryzan of those involved in planting the explosive device and was prepared to detain them.

Posted

And that proves nothing other than ....well...nothing.

RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS

If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us

Posted

. It's fairly certain that they were behind the string of apartment block bombings that led to the second Chechen War.

Lets try this again..with the utmost leaway in the definitions of fairly and certain....

Scholars

According to researcher Gordon Bennett, the conspiracy theory that the FSB was behind the bombings is kept alive by the Russian oligarch and Kremlin-critic Boris Berezovsky. Bennett points out that neither Berezovsky nor his team (which includes Alexander Litvinenko) have provided any evidence to support their claims. In the BBC World Hard Talk interview on 8 May 2002, Berezovsky was also unable to present any evidence for his claims, and he did not suggest he was in possession of such evidence which he would be ready to present in a court.[11] Bennett also points out that Putin's critics often forget that the decision to send troops to Chechnya was taken by Boris Yeltsin — not Vladimir Putin — with the wholehearted support of all power structures.[11]

Professor Richard Sakwa has commented on the claims of Berezovsky and Litvinenko, saying that the evidence they presented was at best circumstanstial.[10]

Dr. Mike Bowker, from the University of East Anglia, has said that the inference that the bombings were carried out by the Russian authorities is uncorrobated by evidence. According to Bowker, the theory also ignores the history of Chechen terrorism and public threats by various Chechen rebels following their defeat in Dagestan – which included Khattab telling a Czech and a German newspaper, a few days before the bombings in Moscow, that "Russian women and children will pay for the crimes of Russian generals." and that "this will not happen tomorrow, but the day after tomorrow" [150][151]

Dr. Vlad Sobell has pointed out that the proponents of the theory that the second invasion of Chechnya was a plot by Putin to get elected regularly ignore the key fact that Putin's attack on Chechnya in 1999 was preceded by a Chechen insurrection in Dagestan, whose objective was to turn it into another unstable Chechnya.[152]

According to Associate Professor Henry E. Hale of Harvard University, one thing that remains unclear about the "FSB did it" theory: If the motive was to get an FSB-friendly man installed as president, why would the FSB have preferred Putin, a little-known "upstart" who had leapt to the post of FSB director through outside political channels, to Primakov, who was certainly senior in stature and pedigree and who was also widely reputed to have a KGB past?[153]

According to Dr. Robert Bruce Ware of Southern Illinois University, "The assertions that Russian security services are responsible for the bombings is at least partially incorrect, and appears to have given rise to an obscurantist mythology of Russian culpability. At the very least, it is clear that these assertions are incomplete in so far as they have not taken full account of the evidence suggesting the responsibility of Wahhabis under the leadership of Khattab, who may have been seeking retribution for the federal assault upon Dagestan's Islamic Djamaat."[12]

Dr. Kirill Pankratov, in a 2003 letter to the Johnson's Russia List, spoke against Satter's and Putley's theory. He noted that 1) there was no need for "another pretext for military operation in Chechnya at the time of the Ryazan incident", but there were already a "plenty of reasons for decisive military response", 2) the FSB of other security service[clarification needed] was institutionally incapable of such a conspiracy after years of decline in the 1990s, 3) the conspirators were not actually trying to blow a building up in Ryazan; however, their sloppy actions are "consistent with the training exercise version of events", 4) the FSB did not have to declare the incident a "training exercise", but "it was much easier to show great relief... and continue trying to find the perpetrators of the bombing attempt." [154]

Security and policy analysts Simon Saradzhyan and Nabi Abdullaev noted that Litvinenko and Felshtinsky did not provide any direct evidence to back up their claims about FSB involvement in the bombings.[155]

RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS

If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us

Posted

The Russian Government would like you. Beholden to no reality that isn't your own.

I'm sure the Russian Tinfoil Co-oprative would like to add you to their facebook friends...

RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS

If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us

Posted

Lets try this again..with the utmost leaway in the definitions of fairly and certain....

I'm not saying it's not circumstantial, but when you have 3 Moscow FSB officers plant the bomb who then are ordered free by Moscow with no investigation allowed, really, what does that say? Like other crimes, there are complexities like an insurrection in Dagestan as you pointed out. However, they KNOW these guys planted it, though the FSB later claimed it was sugar (another telling albeit laughable excuse) despite the fact that local officials tested it and knew it to contain RDX. If it was a test why wouldn't the government, after the explosives were found, announce it as such? Why wait until the revelation came out that it was traced back to the FSB?

Posted

I'm sure the Russian Tinfoil Co-oprative would like to add you to their facebook friends...

Nope, the Russian Tin-Foil factory has been closed since '91. Though, a good facebook group for you would be "Apologists for Putin."

Posted

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/twin-blasts-rock-moscow-subway-brat-rush-hour-dozens-killed/article1515378/

It's fairly certain that they were behind the string of apartment block bombings that led to the second Chechen War.

I'm not saying it's not circumstantial,...

It's not often that someone can simultaneously be the straight man to the foil, and deliver the punch line.

I'm fairly certain this line of nickynonsenes has out lived it's funniness...

RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS

If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us

Posted

It's not often that someone can simultaneously be the straight man to the foil, and deliver the punch line.

I'm fairly certain this line of nickynonsenes has out lived it's funniness...

The hard evidence is that it was RDX. They know the FSB planted it. Tying it to the Kremlin can be viewed as circumstantial, but lets be honest. We all know where the FSB gets its orders from. That and we're all forgetting that at the time Putin was just ending (and beginning as PM) his appointment as head of the FSB.

Yet, I bet you won't address this, just as you didn't address the other post.

Posted

Yet, I bet you won't address this

nicky10013

Tr00ther Nonsense Blvd

Tinfoil Hat Springs

State of Conspiracy Theory

10090

RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS

If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us

Posted

Just as I suspected. No argument to counter, resort to childish tactics. Fitting.

Correct. You have no argument to counter. Tr00thers never do. No answer will ever satistfy a tr00ther so I don't bother.

I simply enable them to look stupid.

RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS

If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us

Posted (edited)

Correct. You have no argument to counter. Tr00thers never do. No answer will ever satistfy a tr00ther so I don't bother.

I simply enable them to look stupid.

Are you 12? This, "I know you are but what am I?" crap belongs on the playground.

Edited by nicky10013

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